ID - 4 University of Idaho Students Murdered - Moscow # 36

[TooMuchGun]

‘She was living the life that she deserved’: Maddie Mogen’s father braces for first Christmas without her.
'She was living the life that she deserved': Maddie Mogen's father braces for first Christmas without her

this article is so heartbreaking.

 

[Sundog]

not a very racially diverse college town. Frats and sororities too.

The racial makeup of the city was 90.9% White, 1.1% African American, 0.6% Native American, 3.1% Asian, 0.2% Pacific Islander, 1.4% from other races, and 2.7% from two or more races. Hispanic or Latino of any race were 4.6% of the population.

UofI similar
The enrolled student population at University of Idaho is 74.4% White, 9.59% Hispanic or Latino, 3.9% Two or More Races, 1.83% Asian, 1.13% Black or African American, 1.05% American Indian or Alaska Native, and 0.436% Native Hawaiian or Other Pacific Islanders.

Possibly representative of the state's demographics.

 

[Sundog]

How academic is the University of Idaho? I know that some universities are
more sports oriented than others. In other words is UI a academic oriented
university or more oriented towards sports? This would be important in discernment of the temperature of competitiveness.

The University of Idaho at Moscow is the state's land grant university, and is the top research university in the state. This is an indicator of strong academic programs and ranking.

Many universities are highly competitive in relation to their sports, think Ohio State, University of Michigan, but that has nothing to do with the quality of their academics.

 

[GoBuckeyes]

No, he would have covered his socks with plastic coverings similar to forensics.

I'm not sure how well that setup would work in blood. I think it might be awfully slippery. IDK though, you may be right, or maybe he used a different type of covering that provided traction??

 

[Sundog]

K took a job out of state, to me that signifies a readiness to move forWard.

<snipped for focus>

I think K took the job out of state because she worked for this company as an intern and they offered her a high paying position upon graduation. College graduates often move away from home when they get an offer like this to start their careers after graduation. Even if they prefer to remain in state, they would not likely turn down a high paying position to start their professional careers. So I don't see this as a signficant factor in K's "readiness to move forward."

 

[Crashman]

IMO, I've always thought it was two people. I don't think it was due to someone being dumped by a girlfriend. I think there's something much larger and endemic to Greek life, and some of the victims knew something about it. When I think of the dark side of Greek life, I think drugs, hidden crimes (including but not limited to SA) and hazing. I think whichever of these activities was learned about by a victim was what set off the murders. I believe one or both of the killers (and perhaps whoever took away the evidence) has gotten away with something like this (but not anything as horrifying as a quadruple homicide) in the past and was confident it would work again. MOO

MOO, the revenge angle makes sense to me too. I don’t subscribe to the theory that two college kids (or more) conspire to commit capital murder X4 to cover up crimes like drugs, SA or hazing. Perhaps that motive might explain why the killer(s) went to the apartment but the perp brought a knife for the purpose killing. Waited for the victims to fall asleep. Again IMHO this murder has the signs of long, simmering rage.

They did...
View attachment 389879

ETA: Source

Maybe I am imagining things but does that look like blood where the dog is sniffing?

 

[CGray123]

Well, there sure are ways of using a knife that result in less blood being on the knife-wielder. I don't know what "sloppy" meant in the original reports, but I have assumed it means there were at least bloody glove prints. What a killer might want to avoid is arterial blood spurt, but if the killer were dressed properly, I suppose even that wouldn't matter that much.

It does raise the issue of where they went to clean up. But if the killer knew what he was doing, anatomically, he might have been rather precise (what Mr and Mrs G have said makes me think that's the case, but who knows). At any rate, there are more and less precise or sloppy ways to use a knife. I don't think anyone ever said the crime scene was "clean."

I agree it's really hard to know what "sloppy" means in this context. First of all, it was the first stabbing murder in living memory in Moscow, so it was going to look "sloppy" if that means "lots of blood" (odd choice of word, still), When I first saw the word, I figured it meant bedclothes tossed everywhere, things knocked over, items of the killer left behind, etc. I suppose this could still be true. It's possible they had some item that gave them the killer's DNA right away. Perhaps that's how they compiled their "believe not to be involved" list but they still don't know who the perp is (or the DNA is not enough to make the case).

If we're still in this holding pattern in February, my heart is going to sink.

In this context, an investigator would use the word "sloppy" to describe a careless, disorganized killer. To me, it means he likely left lots of evidence, like DNA and fingerprints, maybe other signs. My speculation is that LE knows who he is, but does not have all the evidence they want and don't want to help him with any of their disclosures.

 

[NeonSunburst69]

Snipped for space.

Maybe I am imagining things but does that look like blood where the dog is sniffing?

Crashman, I thought it looked like blood too!

 

[Thora_Jay]

Former FBI agent Jennifer Coffindaffer believes the killer could be an 'incel

Ex-FBI agent believes University of Idaho mass murderer could be an 'incel' with 'perverted anger towards women' - killer came to 'boiling point'​

She also believes that the killer could have built up anger against one or more of the slain students but added that her main theory is that the killer is someone with ‘perverted thoughts and anger toward women’.

'Involuntary celibates’ or ‘incels’, are part of a misogynistic subculture on shady online forums where users exchange fantasies about rape and mass murder.

Speaking to Newsweek she said: ‘They're known as incels ... who has watched this house, who is seeing all of these beautiful girls go in and out, and their rage and their own personal, horrific desires, they realized that night.

More at the link at the top

 

[Sundog]

Former FBI agent Jennifer Coffindaffer believes the killer could be an 'incel

Ex-FBI agent believes University of Idaho mass murderer could be an 'incel' with 'perverted anger towards women' - killer came to 'boiling point'​

She also believes that the killer could have built up anger against one or more of the slain students but added that her main theory is that the killer is someone with ‘perverted thoughts and anger toward women’.

'Involuntary celibates’ or ‘incels’, are part of a misogynistic subculture on shady online forums where users exchange fantasies about rape and mass murder.

Speaking to Newsweek she said: ‘They're known as incels ... who has watched this house, who is seeing all of these beautiful girls go in and out, and their rage and their own personal, horrific desires, they realized that night.

More at the link at the top

There is no evidence that the murderer was a member of a cult of incels. Just her opinion, IMO.

 

[gliving]

I was checking out Idaho news and saw this new article. I'm not saying it's related to the Moscow murders at all, but the words "multiple stab wounds" sure caught my eye. Caldwell ID is 300 miles from Moscow.

Friday, December 23rd 2022

Multiple gang related stabbings in Caldwell

Caldwell Police offercers responded to a gang-

idahonews.com

Police arrived at a chaotic scene with two males suffering from multiple stab wounds. The victims have been identified as " Sureno" gang members from Caldwell.

The incident began when the victims arrived at the gas station and made eye contact with the suspects from the rivel gang "Norteno". Shortly after, the suspects left and then returned with two additional "Norteno" gang members. The confrontation then turned violent when the group attacked the two male victims stabbing them repeatedly. The suspects then fled the scene and witnesses called for help. The suspects have been identified as 27-year-old Jose Magdaleno, 20-year-old Marcos Magdaleno, 23- year-old Isaiah Magdaleno, and one minor.

 

[femto]

In this context, an investigator would use the word "sloppy" to describe a careless, disorganized killer. To me, it means he likely left lots of evidence, like DNA and fingerprints, maybe other signs. My speculation is that LE knows who he is, but does not have all the evidence they want and don't want to help him with any of their disclosures.

As far as I'm remember, the coroner used the word "sloppy" to the family. And "sloppy" is a very weird word to use in this crime because... well, the killer stabbed 4 people. Sloppiness is a given considering how much blood multiple stabbings would produce in a single victim, let alone 4. But as far as the execution of the crime itself, I don't see how the killer could be considered sloppy given what we know so far. Obviously a very well planned attack that has left police with not much to go on... at least considering what we know so far.

We know there was a knife involved, we don‘t know if it was serrated or if it was a KaBar

Actually, the knife being a serrated fixed blade is one of the few things the police actually released. Police have been somewhat contradictory with what the knife is supposed to be. From what I remember in the earlier press conferences there was talk of a KaBar then a Rambo style knife, but what we can at least be certain for the murder weapon since they never wavered on it is that the knife was combat oriented and serrated.

Former FBI agent Jennifer Coffindaffer believes the killer could be an 'incel

Incel has become a bit of a buzzword with no real meaning. There's virtually nothing in this crime to suggest anything about the killer's personal life except that he had an intense hatred for at least one of the victims either personal wise or what she/they as a whole represented

Also, this crime paints the exact opposite of the "incel" stereotype. Incels crave attention and like to broadcast their crimes to the world. It's one of the few traits incel type crimes have to every attack going back as far as Elliot Rodger. They also generally try to do the most amount of damage in the shortest amount of time and then either kill themselves or end up in jail. Nothing about this crime scene speaks to that type of perpetrator. The killer, whether he intended for all 4 victims to die or not, took great care despite how risky this crime is to not get caught nor has he bolstered about anything that we know about so far.

 

[TIGER0822]

Maddie: “What did you tell Adam?”
Kaylee: “I told him EVERYTHING.”

Have you ever told someone EVERYTHING and it not been a big deal. If their conversation was benign she would’ve told her what they talked about. To answer with “I told him EVERYTHING”…

In my opinion this is one of the biggest clues we’ve received. It wasn’t released by the MPD either. I don’t think “A” is involved but I wonder about the many calls to “J” that night. Were they calling to check his temperature after Kaylee told “A” , his roommate, EVERYTHING?

Just some thoughts and my opinions…

I just don’t think is relevant.

 

[housewife]

There is no evidence that the murderer was a member of a cult of incels. Just her opinion, IMO.

Most incels manage just fine all by themselves, no cult needed.

Coffindaffer is not my favorite, she is happy to speculate on any theory when she’s on tv.

Edit: spelling

 

[RoadRageKills]

It seems they may be following the advice of LE so far and I really hope they do.

I can assure the only thing worse than having a loved one murdered is never seeing justice served because an investigation has been compromised.

Agreed! I know this 1st hand. Hence my name here is

 

[gliving]

Aww, this is sweet.

Who were the four students killed at the University of Idaho? A look into their lives - East Idaho News

MOSCOW (Idaho Statesman) — One was a triplet whose siblings were his “best friends.” One made a gay coworker feel safe amid unkind comments. One was “the life of every party.” One was a budding social media manager who loved the color pink. All four died in a quadruple homicide on Sunday...

www.eastidahonews.com

(AP), a University of Idaho graduate and former coworker, said Goncalves trained him at Panera Bread in Hayden.

P said that was his first summer after coming out as gay, and Goncalves made sure to create a safe space for him after unkind remarks from someone at the store.

“Kaylee assured me to pay him no mind,” he said. “I had forgotten about that interaction until the news broke, and with it the realization of how safe she made me feel.”

 

[housewife]

This line of thinking isn't helpful at all. We all understand what he did, but to close our eyes and pretend that this killer is some raving lunatic who shouts to himself how crazy he is on the street isn't going to help anyone. The reality of the situation is probably that the killer is no different than you or me on the outside. This notion that killers or even serial killers are some raving psychotic mad men is such an outdated line of thinking and it kind of saddens me that people these days continue to believe in it.

Exactly. All it takes is emotion (anger) and a lack of impulse control= violence.

 

[bonniejeanne17]

I don't see any relevancy to anyone being out of anyone's league. She obviously cared for him and he her. There was likely mutual attraction. IIRC, she was probably fairly plain when they first met. She wore a lot of product and "prettied" herself up, but that seems to be par for the course at U of I. All those sorority girls look alike to me. I don't see how she stood out in that environment even with all that effort.

They were high school sweethearts. On Kaylee's FB, you can see pictures of them at the H.S. prom.
Kaylee was a natural beauty. Back then, she had dark brown hair. She looked just like her Mom. She didn't need
all the enhancement required by the peer pressure of a sorority.

I am thinking of all the families today, Christmas Day, and praying for them.

 

[bonniejeanne17]

What a sweet picture of Maddie at 2 years of age dressed in her Christmas outfit. And good to know that her father is receiving daily updates from Moscow Police Department. That's pretty amazing, and he says it has helped him stay away from social media misinformation on the killings, because he hears from LE representative every day.

The page got all blurry when I saw that photo and read the article.

May God be with Ben and Karen and all who loved Maddie, on this Christmas Day.

 

[layer]

I think K took the job out of state because she worked for this company as an intern and they offered her a high paying position upon graduation.

Exactly!

She had planned a trip, she was planning on backpacking across Europe, for the month of January, starting her new job in February, with an internship that she had done wound up offering her a full time, very well paid position, that she was very excited to take.

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