ID - DeOrr Kunz Jr, 2, Timber Creek Campground, 10 July 2015 - #12

[Rayemonde]

They had teams of divers in the reservoir too... I think they searched it extra thoroughly because the cadaver dogs kept leading them there (apparently because of the cremains).

When we discussed the creek in an earlier thread people said that at the time of the searches it was shallow and you could see the bottom, and there was too much debris for a body do be washed away out of the search area. Searchers cleared the debris and still found nothing. And people thought that DeOrr's boots would have surfaced if he was in water.

 

[Arnie M]

Maybe the answer is as simple as, he told the truth.

Now, what I'd like to know is how extensively have they searched the creek? And do they plan to search it again? Somehow, the water seems to be overlooked. If not in reality by the LE officials, certainly in these discussions. I've learned more about mountain lions than in all my years of watching the "Big Cat Diaries". But what about the water?

That was my thinking from the beginning , he tumbled into the creek , it was discussed a lot in the previous threads and I posted pictures of the creek that showed deep spots , some over 4 feet of water as searchers waded through.

(My theory) was he was submerged under one of those large rocks , the current pushed him there and holds him there , there are also places (caverns) under the edges of the creek bank where water flows ... it could be plainly seen in some videos.

It is a steep drop down to the creek , a 2 year-old could not walk down , but a fall with a couple of bounces and tumbles would do it , and would leave no continuous scent trail for a dog to track.

Folks who disagreed only focused on the shallow 6" deep portions of the creek without considering all the deep pools full of huge rocks , searchers probed those deep spots but you would need 10 foot long arms to reach all the hidden caverns. Even looking at the reservoir that supplies the creek water , the water runs under the dam , not over it..

That remains my best guess to date , I admit it is a bit of a long shot , but it beats the heck out of french fry man , or staring man , or the amazing invisible child snatcher who just happened to be lurking in the bush for the exact moment grandpa looked away.

No Sasquatch were harmed during the construction of this post.

 

[giagreen]

Bowerman said in the latest news clip that they left 1030/11 in the morning to go to the store. DK said they didnt leave the campsite after 1pm. If we take 11 in the morning.. add 20 minutes each way that is 40 mins and what 20 minutes in the store? that is an hour.. 11-1120.. to store..20 minutes in store.. 1140..20 minutes to drive back ..1200 noon.. where did an hour go between 12 and 1 when they hadnt left the campsite after 1pm?? MOO

Huh? They didn't leave the campsite till after 1pm? I've always only seen reports that they were back from the store at around 1pm.

 

[iluvmua]

The story changes yet again. go figure.

 

[pepelepolecat]

That's not true. They are taking samples of scat from the area. If they were so sure the parents were involved would they be doing that?

Well, scavengers and decomposers poop, too. And that would apply whether they suspected the parents, one of the other POIs or a complete stranger or other predator. Hopefully they find something new from them.

 

[Dee10]

That's not true. They are taking samples of scat from the area. If they were so sure the parents were involved would they be doing that?

Yes, I believe so as if this should turn into a circumstantial criminal case it would be necessary to remove any doubt an animal attack as a possibility.

 

[bessie]

Thanks Besse, But would an unconscious toddler be heavy enough to actually get sucked into the mud? I was thinking more along the lines of him walking into the water and getting stuck in mud when I made my post. I'm not being argumentative, just very interested in this possibility.

I don't have a definite answer, but I can't see why not. Weren't there heavy rains right afterward? I wonder if, and how, that would have an effect. I believe it was Arnie who brought up the subject of bringing cadaver dogs on boats out into the reservoir. Maybe that's been done, but I haven't read that anywhere.

Then there's the creek. I know it was searched, but again, can we be certain nothing was missed?

ETA: I didn't see Arnie's post when I posted. I'm right there with ya, bud. It's as good a possibility as anything else at this point, and the most obvious and likely one, at that.

 

[iluvmua]

I'm still waiting for the sketch or is that not going to happen now?

 

[desert-blue]

That's not true. They are taking samples of scat from the area. If they were so sure the parents were involved would they be doing that?

Are they continuing to do that from this point forward? I got the impression that they did examine and/or look for scat but I did not get the impression that was going to be part of the investigation that is now apparently starting over at square one. I could be mistaken on that, but that was how I interpreted it. LE has repeatedly said there is no evidence of animal attack.

 

[kammiemc]

Are they continuing to do that from this point forward? I got the impression that they did examine and/or look for scat but I did not get the impression that was going to be part of the investigation that is now apparently starting over at square one. I could be mistaken on that, but that was how I interpreted it. LE has repeatedly said there is no evidence of animal attack.

Maybe he is thinking that it's possible that something happened to the toddler, then an animal happened upon his remains.


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[desert-blue]

Maybe he is thinking that it's possible that something happened to the toddler, then an animal happened upon his remains.


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I didn't think of that, but yes, that could be the case as well. Thank you!

 

[giagreen]

Are they continuing to do that from this point forward? I got the impression that they did examine and/or look for scat but I did not get the impression that was going to be part of the investigation that is now apparently starting over at square one. I could be mistaken on that, but that was how I interpreted it. LE has repeatedly said there is no evidence of animal attack.

Yes LE said that there is no evidence that says an animal abducted him. But they also say that it hasn't been ruled out. There is also no evidence that the parents killed him or are covering up an accident. But its not ruled out.
I got the impression as well that the testing of scat is part of this investigation that is starting over. So I took it as they are doing everything again not just reinterviewing everybody.

 

[neesaki]

Are they continuing to do that from this point forward? I got the impression that they did examine and/or look for scat but I did not get the impression that was going to be part of the investigation that is now apparently starting over at square one. I could be mistaken on that, but that was how I interpreted it. LE has repeatedly said there is no evidence of animal attack.

LE has also repeatedly said there's no evidence of abduction, and, if little Deorr was up there they would have found him. So they don't believe he's up there, and they don't believe he was abducted by human or animal. So what does that leave ? Reading between the lines, they seem to be indicating something else happened and I'm wondering what their reasoning is for doing that. Then again, there are many child disappearances where there's no evidence of anything. Maybe that's all they're saying.

 

[bessie]

[...]
Bowerman told KTVB the grid search involved animal feces identification, also known as scat, to help rule out abduction by animal.

"We've found not one article that would indicate abduction either by animal or person," said Bowerman.

However, Bowerman went on to say he is not ruling out the possibility of abduction by person or animal.

[...]
Bowerman said DeOrr's mother and father met with a sketch artist this last week...

Bowerman hopes to release the sketch soon.

http://www.ktvb.com/story/news/2015...ssing-2-year-old-deorr-kunz-jr-case/73483858/

 

[neesaki]

Maybe he is thinking that it's possible that something happened to the toddler, then an animal happened upon his remains.


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That could be it, they actually alluded to / mentioned something like that in their first interview. Or was it the second? The one where the sheriff was with the deputy and they stated there were wolves and bears, etc., running through the campsite/search area.

 

[CanManEh]

Ha! Thanks for bringing this up! So I'm not crazy for thinking this exact thing. I was watching a video of an Idaho mountain lion up in a tree and was thinking what the odds could be that's why they searched the egals nest. And maybe were not going just for the nests either.

I was watching a documentary on mountain lions and was surprised to learn how tricky they are to trace. They will actually step in other animals foot prints to avoid being tracked. As well as making sure they step in their own so they don't leave tracks. Its neat. Beautiful animals....wow! But they live to kill.

Your right and that's the exact reason there called the GHOST'S of the forest...

 

[Dee10]

Bowerman said in the latest news clip that they left 1030/11 in the morning to go to the store. DK said they didnt leave the campsite after 1pm. If we take 11 in the morning.. add 20 minutes each way that is 40 mins and what 20 minutes in the store? that is an hour.. 11-1120.. to store..20 minutes in store.. 1140..20 minutes to drive back ..1200 noon.. where did an hour go between 12 and 1 when they hadnt left the campsite after 1pm?? MOO

Has it been mentioned what time was on the receipt? That would likely give an indication of what time they left the store. Such a small store I can't imagine they were in there very long, but they could have eaten inside or outside I suppose, so maybe it wouldn't help that much.

 

[desert-blue]

Yes LE said that there is no evidence that says an animal abducted him. But they also say that it hasn't been ruled out. There is also no evidence that the parents killed him or are covering up an accident. But its not ruled out.
I got the impression as well that the testing of scat is part of this investigation that is starting over. So I took it as they are doing everything again not just reinterviewing everybody.

BBM: We (the public) have no idea what evidence LE has. No one has been cleared.

 

[CanManEh]

Leopards take their prey into trees. Mountain lions eat on the ground and bury their kill, as other posters have previously mentioned. They do not drag deer or anything else into trees. https://outdoornebraska.ne.gov/wild...dfs/Mountain Lions in Nebraska PowerPoint.pdf

They absolutly do take thier food in to trees .i know this for a fact as i have seen it with my own too eyes . if anything its the burrying thier kill i dont agree with they take thier food into the trees so that wolved and other animals will not beable to take the kill from them burrying the kill wont do anything to stop other animals from coming in they can still smell it even if its burried .I have seen mt lion take small deer up into the trees with my own to eyes so i know this 100 percent with out a dought....

 

[desert-blue]

Has it been mentioned what time was on the receipt? That would likely give an indication of what time they left the store. Such a small store I can't imagine they were in there very long, but they could have eaten inside or outside I suppose, so maybe it wouldn't help that much.

The sheriff hasn't volunteered that information for some reason. The subject has come up twice during interviews but he stops short of giving the exact time stamp.