ID - DeOrr Kunz Jr, 2, Timber Creek Campground, 10 July 2015 - # 25

[desert-blue]

I had not realized, until poking around today, that PI Vilt thinks the baby was adopted out. I believe IR when he says little DeOrr was at the cg, but perhaps the parents left with him to "go to the store" and returned without him. IR wasn't necessarily looking for him when they returned and could have been a little ways off by himself and busy fishing. I guess this is very plausible.

I wonder if Vilt still thinks that, given the recent developments?

It seems unlikely to me for a lot of reasons.


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[Jamaica Me Crazy]

Imo. The sheriff is in charge until the feds takes over the case. So did the feds take over the case or just assisted with the case?

I know that the same thing happened with the Jessica chambers case. The feds helped while leaving the decisions and crap storm to the LE of that county.

So imo. It seems like the fbi will help a case. But they sometimes don't officially take over the case.

But imo. If you pay federal taxes and the fbi can be used to help solve a case. Then our tax dollars should mandate that the feds stay on board and be accountable until the case is closed. Jmo.

So bottom line. All people that pay irs taxes; should have mandatory cooperation of the fbi to help on their case. Regardless of if it is a state case or not.

Especially since the fbi is paid by the federal taxes that we pay out each year. Jmo.

And I truly think that the local LE should always remind the feds of this as well. Jmo

Huh??

 

[DexterMorgan]

Huh??

The sheriff is running this case while the dad paid fed taxes while working; Which should mandate the feds to be responsible as well . Jmo

Now please remember. Our Irs taxes help pay the fbi. So if your kid goes missing and you are a irs tax payer.

Shouldn't you have the choice of making sure the fbi helps you out and takes over the case ; regardless of state or fed jurisdiction? Jmo.

 

[jessie]

Very interesting about the amount of power a Sheriff holds.
I might have this wrong but didn't some posts upthread mention the Campground area being Federal Land?

I wasn't sure what that meant, and quite possibly misunderstood completely. But if anyone can set me straight I would be grateful. TYIA

 

[DexterMorgan]

Very interesting about the amount of power a Sheriff holds.
I might have this wrong but didn't some posts upthread mention the Campground area being Federal Land?

I wasn't sure what that meant, and quite possibly misunderstood completely. But if anyone can set me straight I would be grateful. TYIA

Exactly. This case should only be decided or commented by feds and not the sheriff. Jmo.

 

[The Apparition]

I had not realized, until poking around today, that PI Vilt thinks the baby was adopted out. I believe IR when he says little DeOrr was at the cg, but perhaps the parents left with him to "go to the store" and returned without him. IR wasn't necessarily looking for him when they returned and could have been a little ways off by himself and busy fishing. I guess this is very plausible.

I think he is a little off in the head. If you read his termination letter to the family it's clear he leans towards something with a less happy ending.

I don't think IR has given us anything terribly useful. His famous naked interview was only slightly less informative than his fully clothed sit down with Eaton. Now I understand at that time he had a lawyer and possibly also was under the advice of LE to not say much but he really gave little substantial information . He doesn't ever say "I saw Deorr alive and well". I don't have the transcript handy but I remember thinking nothing of real substance came out of that interview. Not to pick on the local buy but Eaton is a terrible interviewer. He embeds answers in his questions, leads, doesn't probe, and asks compound questions. I would love to see what a real interviewer would have done to VDK during his famous day 3 interview.

 

[Jamaica Me Crazy]

The sheriff is running this case while the dad paid fed taxes while working; Which should mandate the feds to be responsible as well . Jmo

Now please remember. Our Irs taxes help pay the fbi. So if your kid goes missing and you are a irs tax payer.

Shouldn't you have the choice of making sure the fbi helps you out and takes over the case ; regardless of state or fed jurisdiction? Jmo.

Should I call the fire department or the state cops if my cat goes up a tree and can't come back down? :thinking:

 

[KayCherry]

Great post, I feel the same.

While I think that IR comes across rather sympathetic - his lack of information is almost as disturbing as what he is telling.. Just a bunch of "all around the bush" - can we hear some "real" INFORMATION about, exactly where DeOrr was, or when exactly he saw/heard him, what did ANYONE see DeOrr doing last? It is so frustrating to have barely any info or leads, from 4 (or more sources) - I understand SB can't show all his cards, but for the sake of this sweet Little Angel, who deserves so much in life, could the parents please state the facts as they were known. Talking about SAR and the search - when I would be yelling, crying "HE was right here, then I went here, Grandpa said " does anyone get what I mean?
I can't wait to hear all the background of this case, and IT will come out in the end. I feel SB won't give up on DeOrr.

I think he is a little off in the head. If you read his termination letter to the family it's clear he leans towards something with a less happy ending.

I don't think IR has given us anything terribly useful. His famous naked interview was only slightly less informative than his fully clothed sit down with Eaton. Now I understand at that time he had a lawyer and possibly also was under the advice of LE to not say much but he really gave little substantial information . He doesn't ever say "I saw Deorr alive and well". I don't have the transcript handy but I remember thinking nothing of real substance came out of that interview. Not to pick on the local buy but Eaton is a terrible interviewer. He embeds answers in his questions, leads, doesn't probe, and asks compound questions. I would love to see what a real interviewer would have done to VDK during his famous day 3 interview.

 

[DexterMorgan]

Should I call the fire department or the state cops if my cat goes up a tree and can't come back down? :thinking:

Lol. No. Clark Kent is responsible for cats stuck in trees. Come on. You know that. Lol

Hugs.

 

[ReadySet]

Regarding The power of the Sheriff:
This article is a lot more extensive but it includes a great description of what being the Sheriff actually means. So for Baby Deoors case, no matter what a PI might states HE has planned, if its not scantioned by the county Sheriff it doesnt mean much more then a suggestion or a request to be allowed to proceed.

http://constitutionallawenforcementassoc.blogspot.com/

"The office of sheriff has a long and noble history. It dates back over a thousand years and originated in England. The sheriff is the only elected law enforcement official in America. He is the last line of defense for his citizens. He is the people's protector. He is the keeper of the peace, he is the guardian of liberty and the protector of rights. A vast majority of sheriffs will agree with all of this until they are asked to apply these principles of protection to federal criminals. Their backpeddling and excuses will be more plentiful than radar tickets and louder than sirens at doughnut time. Most of the unbelievers, who themselves have taken a solemn oath to "uphold and defend" the U S Constitution, will passionately and even apologetically exclaim that they have no authority or jurisdiction to tell federal agents to do anything, let alone stop them from victimizing local citizens. The truth and stark reality is that it's just the opposite; the sheriff has ultimate authority and law enforcement power within his jurisdiction. He is to protect and defend his citizens from all enemies, both "foreign and domestic."

I'm going to call this OT: Interesting website.
Thats a very specific interpretation that I would say not all agree with, including myself.
It also says
"Americans are facing the stark reality that their Constitutional rights have been canceled. The Homegrown Terrorism Bill is only the latest evidence of the direction of government. Nearly every action taken by the Federal government today violates the Constitution and it is that document that sheriffs and the military take an oath to defend.

Might want to talk to some Oregonians to see if they agree with this .

 

[persimmon]

The following quote gives a clear definition of the FBIs role in a missing child case:

In 1932, Congress gave the FBI jurisdiction under the “Lindbergh Law” to immediately investigate any reported mysterious disappearance or kidnapping involving a child of “tender age”—usually 12 or younger. And just to be clear, before we get involved, there does not have to be a ransom demand and the child does not have to cross state lines or be missing for 24 hours.

They work alongside state and local LE with some exceptions. I do not think DeOrr's case warrants total FBI control.

https://m.fbi.gov/#https://www.fbi.gov/about-us/investigate/vc_majorthefts/cac/non-family-abductions

 

[ReadySet]

Regarding the question about federal lands: The cg is in Salmon-Challis National Forest. National forests are federal (public) lands.

 

[12madelyn]

I think he is a little off in the head. If you read his termination letter to the family it's clear he leans towards something with a less happy ending.

I don't think IR has given us anything terribly useful. His famous naked interview was only slightly less informative than his fully clothed sit down with Eaton. Now I understand at that time he had a lawyer and possibly also was under the advice of LE to not say much but he really gave little substantial information . He doesn't ever say "I saw Deorr alive and well". I don't have the transcript handy but I remember thinking nothing of real substance came out of that interview. Not to pick on the local buy but Eaton is a terrible interviewer. He embeds answers in his questions, leads, doesn't probe, and asks compound questions. I would love to see what a real interviewer would have done to VDK during his famous day 3 interview.

LOL.yea, Eaton is pretty bad. Especially with the very first one with the parents where she is holding the blanket. Ugh..VDK ran that show.

But I don't see anything "off" about Vilt's letter. He probably didn't major in English, but I think it's intelligently written. As for IR, yes I certainly discount the "naked" interview. But with the sit-down with NE, he came across as almost child-like. He likes to fix bikes, he likes to help people, etc. I just see him as a good and gentle soul who was earnestly trying to help as much as he could. The only thing substantive that came out of the interview was that he confirmed he saw DeOrr at the cg. But's that's very important info. And, as far as being coached, I don't think he would be a good candidate for remembering scripted answers. He wasn't really comprehending what he should or shouldn't answer. Vilt just seems to think JM doesn't want kids. I don't think she's fighting over her other two and Vilt said she had her tubes tied, so she obviously doesn't want to get pregnant again. I dunno. A lot of theories floating around and I didn't think his was far-fetched. Just a thought.

 

[Angiebla]

It doesn't matter to me what "info" IR gave to the public so far. All I care about is the info he gave to LE and the FBI. That's all that matters. According to them, his story has been the most consistent.

 

[haven71]

Does anyone remember the wording used when SB was asking for people to come forward if they'd witnessed interactions between Deorr and his parents?

If I'm remembering correctly, he used the word interactions. This suggests IMO that they're seeking evidence leaning more toward Deorr being abused, as opposed to neglected.

Just wondering, and I can't find the quote anywhere. GRRR.

 

[Rayemonde]

so another point against the adoption theory would be why they would keep his most prized blanket? On that note did anyone else observe on the first interview how JM seemed to light up a little when Nate asked her about the blanket? It's the only part of the interview where I would credit her with any emotion.

Yes, I noticed that too. It seemed like they'd planned in advance what they were going to say, and she was sitting there with her prop (the blanket) waiting for her turn to say her piece.

 

[desert-blue]

I just wish IR could tell us ONE thing that he saw DeOrr do or heard DeOrr say... just one teeny tiny little observation from IR about baby DeOrr would be so amazingly awesome!

ETA: I agree that it's what he told LE/FBI that's important, but still... it'd be nice to know that DeOrr was alive and well at some point on the camping trip...

 

[Rayemonde]

Does anyone remember the wording used when SB was asking for people to come forward if they'd witnessed interactions between Deorr and his parents?

If I'm remembering correctly, he used the word interactions. This suggests IMO that they're seeking evidence leaning more toward Deorr being abused, as opposed to neglected.

Just wondering, and I can't find the quote anywhere. GRRR.

25th Jan 2016:

"We're asking the public at this time to come forward with any information that they might have concerning the parents and their interaction with their son DeOrr that they might have witnessed," he said.

http://legacy.ktvb.com/story/news/c...-parents-suspects-his-disappearance/79301014/


28th Jan 2016:

05:31
TG: You have asked for people who may have witnessed interactions between the parents and Deorr to come forward. Is there any indication that Deorr was neglected or abused prior to this camping trip?

05:42
SB: You know, that’s a part of investigation I’m…I’m not willing to talk about at this point. I know that we’re getting tips every day, people that think there’s something that’s usually small but they think it’s important for our office to know, and we’re following up on those leads as fast as we can, but they’re coming in quite frequently, so uh, you know I’d rather not comment on any…anything of that nature.


29th January 2016:

"We’ve asked the public to come forward. I had four or five telephone calls this morning from individuals who either know Mom and Dad and the child and have seen them either interact in the past or they’ve overheard something or they think they can provide information."

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/sho...ION-quot/page4

http://www.eastidahonews.com/2016/01...will-be-found/

 

[neesaki]

I had not realized, until poking around today, that PI Vilt thinks the baby was adopted out. I believe IR when he says little DeOrr was at the cg, but perhaps the parents left with him to "go to the store" and returned without him. IR wasn't necessarily looking for him when they returned and could have been a little ways off by himself and busy fishing. I guess this is very plausible.

Since you mention it, that statement by Sheriff B about the store clerk remembering a child, but couldn't tell if it was a boy or a girl, has crossed my mind. I don't really believe they or anyone else disguised Deorr as a girl, but I suppose there's always a remote possibility.

 

[TeaTime]

Having a tubal ligation seems like a smart and responsible move since this young woman already had 3 children and is still in her very early 20's. It is not a crime to not want to have children much less MORE children and I think Vilt was way out of line with his remark and his conclusion based in part on this procedure. Using this to try to bolster a theory of homicide is shameful.

Browning stated in his letter than VDK had three, not more, three polygraphs administered to him. In the fist, the machine malfunctioned, the second was inconclusive and even VDk doesn't know the official results of the 3rd and final one. Klein yaks about the 'multiple' polys and gives his opinions on them but LE hasn't shared this info with him, so really what the heck is he talking about anyway? I am not talking about what questions seemed to be 'less than truthful', I am talking about the sheer nonsense that Klein would even have access to such information.

These characters make a mockery of a very serious matter.

If the parents know what happened and where DeOrr's body is you can be assured that 2 others know too. You know the old saying "two can keep a secret if one of them is dead"? Well, is it true because NO ONE can keep a secret and will always tell at least one other person. While the parents may not have the gumption to come forward, we can hope that whomever they told will or has already told LE.