ID - DeOrr Kunz Jr, 2, Timber Creek Campground, 10 July 2015 - #9

[ninij9]

Is it reasonable to wonder if someone search related is returning to campgrounds regularly to see if anything surfaces in the creek or reservoir?
I couldn't imagine him surfacing with no one to find him because it is a remote campground.

Sent from my XT1254 using Tapatalk

 

[Cardinal47]

I posted a preliminary map tracing the Creek to the Salmon River a couple of weeks ago. I can go back and do a better map if needed.

View attachment 80281

I found where I originally posted this map: http://www.websleuths.com/forums/sh...ground-10-July-2015-5&p=11969132#post11969132

Here is a link to Google Maps that pretty much traces the route of the creek: https://www.google.com/maps/dir/Tim...0:0x0!2m2!1d-113.842745!2d45.161084!3e0?hl=en

I know you are very good with the maps and have a good handle on the waterways in that area so I have a question.

You know I posted that video of the Stone Reservoir this afternoon and I watched it a couple times.

I noticed what looked like fishermen along the shore across the water. One appeared to have a small camper.

Would it be possible that somebody came in by boat and took DeOrr out that way?

Trying to explore something new.

TIA

[video=youtube;mEk7Fe-GzDo]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mEk7Fe-GzDo[/video]

 

[Cardinal47]

Well, after watching the Sheriff in the unedited interview... I strongly believe he KNOWS and is NOT saying what has happened.. I have that "feeling" about him.. I feel he is angry and disgusted..

Also, someone posted up thread about Sheriff using is own dogs.. Well yeah, I would FULLY expect that he have dogs there ASAP if my child was missing! Only Sheriff went a step further .. He wanted MORE dogs there... Just incase... It is very telling that BOTH groups of dogs found NOTHING. Very telling IMO.. I can see one set of dogs missing the scent, but TWO sets from two different handlers.. Nope.. IMO.. (modsnip)

I so agree with you about the sheriff having and bringing his own dog to the hunt. He knew time meant everything and he also knew with brush and trees and creeks he had to find DeOrr right away.

I think the man did just what he should have done in trying to find DeOrr. Heck it might have taken hours to round up the search and rescue dogs. Men and women are working and out of town. Lots of things to get them collected.

If it was my child I would want a good hustle in the responding officer and this man didn't let them down.

MOO

 

[ClaireNC]

I know you are very good with the maps and have a good handle on the waterways in that area so I have a question.

You know I posted that video of the Stone Reservoir this afternoon and I watched it a couple times.

I noticed what looked like fishermen along the shore across the water. One appeared to have a small camper.

Would it be possible that somebody came in by boat and took DeOrr out that way?

Trying to explore something new.

TIA

No, I don't think so. The reservoir is really pretty small, just about a quarter of a mile long and 800 feet across. I believe it is only open to non-motorized boats. When driving into the campground, you first come to the campsite they were camped in and then if you continue on the road you come to the reservoir. So if anybody took him on a boat, they would still have to drive past the campground to get out of there. The road in is a dead end a mile or so after the reservoir.

 

[TxJan1971]

Just in case it would be helpful to the discussion about the dogs, here are all the dog statements chronologically in one article. (See disclaimer though)


Note: This is a work in Progress & subject to ongoing additions/edits

Disclaimer: A significant # of articles also contains videos that are not transcribed. These video sections may include similar or even different statements about “dogs” which are not included below. The statements below were all taken directly from the articles themselves.

***

July 10, 2015
Search Dogs
Lemhi County immediately initiated a search.
Responders included the Lemhi County Sheriff’s Office, Salmon Police Department, Salmon Search and Rescue, and Leadore EMTs. After a comprehensive search of the immediate area surrounding the campground, other resources were dispatched including divers from the Salmon Search and Rescue and Lemhi CSO, search dogs from Search and Rescue and Salmon PD, horseback resources from the Salmon and Leadore area and others. Other resources on scene include a helicopter, searchers on horseback, ATVs and many people on foot. http://pix11.com/2015/07/13/grandmother-of-missing-2-year-old-he-just-vanished/

July 13, 2015
Trained Search Dogs
SHERIFF REPORTS TO COMMISSIONERS 7-13-15 LMS
Sheriff Lynn Bowerman told the Lemhi County Commissioners Monday, July 13, that based on the intense and extensive search conducted near Leadore for two year old Deorr Kunz Jr., it doesn’t make sense that the boy was not found.
Bowerman said the trained search dogs found nothing and kept coming back to the camp. Helicopters were used day and night to fly the area and fly over Stone Reservoir which is shallow enough to see to the bottom. He said divers explored the lake while approximately 150 volunteers on foot and on horseback conducted a thorough three mile grid-search of Timber Creek. The possibility of abduction by bear, wolf or mountain lion is not being ruled out although no trace of the boy or his apparel, which included oversized cowboy boots, was found.

The small boy disappeared Friday, July 10, from the Timber Creek Campground at Stone Reservoir. Bowerman said Timber Creek terrain is steep and rugged and is a mix of sagebrush and timber. He said given the proven expertise of the dogs the boy should have been found the first day.

Commissioner Chairman Rick Snyder described the area where the family was camped as being at the lake’s outlet which is very steep with very fast moving water flowing through brush and trees and limbs, all of which were pulled apart by searchers. Bowerman said people in wet suits were in the creek searching every hole.

The search has been officially suspended. The sheriff said investigators from Bonneville and Bingham counties have offered assistance in further follow-up investigations into any possible criminal histories of those involved.
http://lemhiweb.com/content/search-recap

July 13, 2015
Search Dogs:
Lemhi County immediately initiated a search. Responders included the Lemhi County Sheriff’s Office, Salmon Police Department, Salmon Search and Rescue, and Leadore EMTs. After a comprehensive search of the immediate area surrounding the campground, other resources were dispatched including divers from the Salmon Search and Rescue and Lemhi CSO, search dogs from Search and Rescue and Salmon PD, horseback resources from the Salmon and Leadore area and others. Other resources on scene include a helicopter, searchers on horseback, ATVs and many people on foot.
http://pix11.com/2015/07/13/grandmot...just-vanished/


July 14, 2015
Search Dogs:
When police arrived they launched a widespread search for the tot spanning at least 2.5 miles. The rescue effort included hundreds of volunteers, helicopters, search dogs and the Salmon Search and Rescue and the Lemhi County Sheriff's Office.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...#ixzz3g0308tN2

July 15, 2015
Dog Units - Scent
Their plan now is to bring in a couple dog units to help pick up any scent the child may have left behind.

"Probably most of searching from now on is going to involve a K9 effort," said Penner.

Right now, the Lemhi County Sheriff's Office is still open to all possibilities. They plan to continue their search efforts with K9 units for at least the next couple of days.
http://www.ktvb.com/story/news/local...unty/30162615/


July 15, 2015
Search Dogs
Wednesday, crews were searching near and in the water at Stone-Creek reservoir because it's the only place search dogs are picking up a scent.
http://www.localnews8.com/news/911-call-reporting-missing-toddler-released/34192558


July 15, 2015
Cadaver Dogs:
Lemhi County Sheriff Lynn Bowerman told Dateline divers were searched the Stone Reservoir Wednesday after cadaver dogs indicated there may be more there to find. A comprehensive search of the 2.5-mile radius of the family's campsite has turned up no clues.

"We're starting to now focus on that area again, although we've searched near there initially and nothing of significance was found by the search and rescue team," said Bowerman. "Until we find him, we cannot rule anything out."
http://www.nbcnews.com/dateline/ida...ve-days-after-wandering-away-campsite-n392776


July 15, 2015
Scent Dogs:
Divers and others focused on the reservoir about 50 miles southeast of Salmon Wednesday but found no sign of 2-year-old DeOrr Kunz. On Tuesday, scent dogs led searchers to that section of reservoir — the second set of search dogs to show marked interest in that area, Lemhi County Sheriff's Office Chief Deputy Steve Penner told the Post Register.
http://www.idahostatesman.com/2015/0...#storylink=cpy

July 15, 2015
Search Dogs
The rescue effort included hundreds of volunteers, helicopters, search dogs and the Salmon Search and Rescue and the Lemhi County Sheriff's Office.
But they did not locate the child.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...-campground-asks-leads-boy.html#ixzz3g0308tN2

July 16, 2015
Scent Tracking Dogs:
We have new information just released today from the Lemhi County Sheriff's Office. They say scent-tracking dogs led searchers to the banks of Stone Reservoir. This is the second time divers have searched the reservoir, which is shallow, small and clear.
and
From Video:
Video also states similar information about the dogs beginning about 0:30
http://www.ktvb.com/story/news/local...dogs/30209081/

July 17, 2015
Cadaver Dogs:
Police divers have been methodically searching every square inch of the reservoir for the little boy after cadaver dogs indicated there may be something there. However, Lemhi County Sheriff Lynn Bowerman tells HLN they just learned that someone had been dumping human cremains in the reservoir, and that very well could be the smell the dogs picked up on.
http://www.hlntv.com/article/2015/07...-fear-abducted

July 20, 2015
Scent Dogs AND Cadaver Dogs:
Numerous resources, including helicopters, divers, side scan sonar, scent dogs, cadaver dogs, horses, ATVs, and over 300 people on the ground, were used to grid and search the reservoir, the creek, and the hillsides, with absolutely no sign of DeOrr.
http://www.localnews8.com/news/Searc...-back/34255568

July 21, 2015
Despite intense efforts by searchers with tracking dogs on the ground and divers in the water, investigators have found no trace of the toddler, who disappeared during a family camping trip on July 10.
http://www.ktvb.com/story/news/local...port/30466883/

July 21, 2015
Multiple Dog Search Groups
‘We’ve literally torn that country apart and found absolutely not one clue,’ Lemhi County Sheriff Lynn Bowerman told FoxNews.com.

‘We conducted an exhaustive search of the area, which included eight agencies, multiple dog search groups and well over 100 people.’
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...t-not-one-clue-whereabouts.html#ixzz3j1qlOpT6

July 23, 2015
Cadaver Dogs & Scent Dogs
In a DeOrr Kunz, Jr. update on the missing Idaho toddler's search, it was discovered that cadaver dogs were thrown off in their search of the little boy who went missing on July 10. Ever since DeOrr Kunz went missing, searchers have maintained their presence at Timber Creek/Stone Reservoir in Leadore, Idaho.
KBOI 2 TV reports July 2 that someone went into the area where they were searching and scattered a family member's ashes. The Lemhi County Sheriff’s Office says that this put scent dogs on the wrong trail. So, the smell of the remains that the dogs picked up, weren't remains of the missing Idaho toddler.

Search dogs led authorities to Stone Reservoir, but no trace of the missing toddler showed up. On Tuesday, the Lemhi County Sheriff’s Office scaled back their search. They report that the case is going in another direction. Searchers remain in the area, however.
Investigators aren't ruling out the possibility that the boy could have been taken by wild animals. KTVB 7 reports that drones will also be used in the search.
http://www.examiner.com/article/deo...gs-thrown-off-search-of-missing-idaho-toddler

August 1, 2015
Cadaver Dogs
Searchers on ATVs, horseback, and the use of cadaver dogs have been utilized all over the area in an effort to find missing DeOrr Kunz, Jr. Even backcountry about 50 miles southeast of Salmon has been scoured. Divers have thoroughly looked for clues in Stone Reservoir waters, but nothing has turned up.
http://www.**************/2301205/d...dler-case-fbi-brought-in/#G6CMLU1vsfW84D34.99

August 18, 2015
Nate Eaton:
“And, um, at this point were their vehicles searched, the tents, I guess everything out there was probably searched?”

Sheriff Bowerman:
1:38
“We did a…I think a very thorough investigation. We uh took two initial track dogs in. Uh, one of them being mine and one being Salmon Police Department. They’re trained to search for people who are lost. Um, they were given a scent. They went from the campground up to the reservoir and then back to the campground and we…we searched everywhere a small child could easily hide or climb into or fall into.”

Nate Eaton:
“But nothing…”

Sheriff Bowerman:
2:11
“And we found absolutely nothing.”

2:13
Nate Eaton:
“Talk a little bit about the cremains that were dumped into, because the dogs were getting a scent…”

Sheriff Bowerman:
“Right! Unbeknownst to us while we were doing our grid search, someone came in and wanted to deposit cremains of a loved one at that site, and I’m assuming it’s a favorite site of their loved one, and without thinking, they deposited cremains, not realizing they were in the middle of a crime scene and what it would do. Within a couple days our dogs were telling us we need to spend more time up at the reservoir, and so we dove it for 2-3 more days and put side-scan sonar, and then we find out from one of our BLM (?) Rangers that they stopped this individual coming out and were informed they had deposited some cremains in the reservoir.”
[video=youtube;FV-h82eVQ1M]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FV-h82eVQ1M&list=PLHxHvR1OFyNDkpZrKmKgKJCsujxaoOlUU[/video]

 

[ClaireNC]

Is it reasonable to wonder if someone search related is returning to campgrounds regularly to see if anything surfaces in the creek or reservoir?
I couldn't imagine him surfacing with no one to find him because it is a remote campground.

I get the impression that LE are checking it regularly and the family is up there on weekends. I believed if a body was going to surface in the reservoir, it would have already. The creek is another story. It could be miles away.

 

[Aunt_Tulip]

It sure sounds like they searched the creek pretty thoroughly. In the video upthread Nate asks about the creek, the man answering says they have removed debris, they have guys in wetsuits, other guys on their hand and knees going through the creek.

Somewhere there is another video that shows searchers in the creek, digging under rocks and trees. It was knee high maybe and in some places just a few inches deep. I haven't seen a video yet that made it look huge and unsearchable, but I'm still catching up on posts this afternoon after spending the last hour catching up on the Lonzie Barton thread.

 

[ClaireNC]

Just in case it would be helpful to the discussion about the dogs, here are all the dog statements chronologically in one article. (See disclaimer though)

TxJan, Your ability to organize the information is incredible. Are you posting these things in the Media thread? They really should be there. My lame attempt at collecting the media links was just thrown together as the articles were being published. Your organization really makes it so much more usable.

 

[Dee10]

We don't even know if the cashier saw DeOrr. It could be any wailing 2 year old blond boy in Idaho. No-one has ever confirmed that there was a credible sighting at 6pm in the store, never mind whether it was DeOrr. The cashier could have seen an entirely different blond haired kid.

Nor the next day. The receipt was matched up (for Sat), but it seems like a non-issue.

“When [the family] went into town the morning after they arrived, they picked a few groceries up and bought some French fries for DeOrr Jr.,” Vilt said. “There was a man who was staring at DeOrr and this made Jessica feel kind of eerie. I’m looking into it.” http://www.eastidahonews.com/2015/08/kunz-family-investigator-everything-points-to-an-abduction/

Forget for a minute about the man staring at Deorr, nothing is mention mentioned about anyone seeing DeOrr eat french fries? Tiny town, everyone knows everyone, small place, cute kid, strangers?? Then the Sheriff's response is:

3:59
Nate Eaton:
“Okay, so um, as far as the private investigator told us a few days ago, that Jessica said there was an older gentleman (Note – Sheriff Bowerman is nodding his head in the affirmative) that may have been staring at Deorr. “

Sheriff Bowerman:
“Mmm hmm.”

Nate Eaton:
“Have you heard anything about that?”

4:11
Sheriff Bowerman:
“Just the report. I don’t know that we’ve confirmed who that individual is, but uh, you know if we had to go out and look for everybody that stared at…at you personally or anybody for any type of crime, you know, it would be a pretty difficult undertaking, you know, to check those stories out. But you know, um, yes, we have heard that information.”

 

[KayCherry]

I am not sure how I feel about grand pop except that he was one of the last people to see Deorr alive. But I have always found it extremely odd his name was with held for 5 weeks by LE, and media. Why was that courtesy given to him? Same with IR, his name was with held for three weeks, and completely omitted by mom and dad in their only main interview. Both odd to me.

This was in response to a post by pinkdragon..I am new at this and was attempting a reply . ..I will have to figure out this site. Newbie here

I agree with this, why isn't he being interviewed, or did I miss it? I couldn't even find a picture of him when I googled. Don't they want to have a Press Release and all stand up for one another. I watched video of parents, and something doesn't seem right to me. Did anyone else see Deorr other than this immediate family. Was he really there?

Thanks, first post, I'm trying.

 

[TxJan1971]

TxJan, Your ability to organize the information is incredible. Are you posting these things in the Media thread? They really should be there. My lame attempt at collecting the media links was just thrown together as the articles were being published. Your organization really makes it so much more usable.

Thanks!
I had a long post but it timed out on me. Ugggh. As far as putting it in the Media/Timeline, that won't work for me. Been there done that! The only thing I think works in there are documents that remain constant, such as a transcript that I have no desire/need to go back and change frequently once it has been posted there. It is what it is as far as transcripts go. If something is a blatant omission or error, I can always flag a mod to fix for me. I hate doing that! I like to fix my own things!

So for things that I know I will need/want to update regularly - "work in progress" things, it definitely wouldn't work in the media timeline due to the time out factor where I lose the ability to edit, and then we may have 20-50-100 versions of the same document, just updated versions. That doesn't work for me!

I'll try to create a dropbox link and have that link available in my signature and folks can just access things that way, and I have the ability to update as needed.

 

[ClaireNC]

Back to the map I was working on hours ago. I have added red lines to note three miles in each direction from the campsite. The creek is flowing north away from the campsite. https://www.google.com/maps/d/edit?mid=z2VLvG6QAl8U.krB_bT1ik8CI&usp=sharing

In the map at the link there are descriptions of each of the markers, lines and arrows on the left side of the page. You can change from map to satellite view by clicking on Base Map and choosing the view that you want to see. You can also zoom in and out to look around.

Here is an image from the map. The blue dots show where the creek starts and where it meets up with other creeks/rivers. The red lines show the approximate search area. The picnic table is the campground. The arrow shows the direction the Lemhi river is flowing.

 

[ClaireNC]

Thanks!

I'll try to create a dropbox link and have that link available in my signature and folks can just access things that way, and I have the ability to update as needed.

Thanks again. I certainly understand about the updating, in the media thread. It's a pain in the butt. I have just been adding new material as it comes along in separate posts to the thread. On the other hand, I love the dropbox link idea. You could post that in the Media thread.

 

[Dee10]

O/T Re: Dylan Redwine Update

http://kdvr.com/2015/08/19/dylan-redwines-death-declared-homicide-dad-ided-as-person-of-interest/

[url]http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?284450-Person-of-Interest-Identified-in-Dylan-Redwine-case/page25
[/URL]

 

[ILOKAL]

Back to the map I was working on hours ago. I have added red lines to note three miles in each direction from the campsite. The creek is flowing north away from the campsite. https://www.google.com/maps/d/edit?mid=z2VLvG6QAl8U.krB_bT1ik8CI&usp=sharing

In the map at the link there are descriptions of each of the markers, lines and arrows on the left side of the page. You can change from map to satellite view by clicking on Base Map and choosing the view that you want to see. You can also zoom in and out to look around.

Here is an image from the map. The blue dots show where the creek starts and where it meets up with other creeks/rivers. The red lines show the approximate search area. The picnic table is the campground. The arrow shows the direction the Lemhi river is flowing.

View attachment 80289

Thanks so much. So when I said the creek that was searched appeared to be about three miles long would that have been about right? It also looks that way to me from your map but I might not be looking at it correctly.

 

[ClaireNC]

Thanks so much. So when I said the creek that was searched appeared to be about three miles long would that have been about right? It also looks that way to me from your map but I might not be looking at it correctly.

The point from the campground up to the first blue dot is about 2 miles. That is where the Middle Fork of the Little Timber Creek and the North Fork join together. I believe that is the part that was the main focus of the search. So yes, you were right. It would make sense for them to search that area. I hope they did.

If you click on the link to the map, you can move around and get a better look. There are descriptions for each of the markers.

 

[TxJan1971]

Back to the map I was working on hours ago. I have added red lines to note three miles in each direction from the campsite. The creek is flowing north away from the campsite. https://www.google.com/maps/d/edit?mid=z2VLvG6QAl8U.krB_bT1ik8CI&usp=sharing

In the map at the link there are descriptions of each of the markers, lines and arrows on the left side of the page. You can change from map to satellite view by clicking on Base Map and choosing the view that you want to see. You can also zoom in and out to look around.

Here is an image from the map. The blue dots show where the creek starts and where it meets up with other creeks/rivers. The red lines show the approximate search area. The picnic table is the campground. The arrow shows the direction the Lemhi river is flowing.

View attachment 80289

Thanks! This is helpful to me and truly appreciate the maps. Definitely not my forte...

 

[ClaireNC]

Thanks! This is helpful to me and truly appreciate the maps. Definitely not my forte...

I just figured out how to use My Maps on Google and I'm having fun playing with it. Let me know if there is anything else you need to visualize.

 

[ClaireNC]

I agree with this, why isn't he being interviewed, or did I miss it? I couldn't even find a picture of him when I googled. Don't they want to have a Press Release and all stand up for one another. I watched video of parents, and something doesn't seem right to me. Did anyone else see Deorr other than this immediate family. Was he really there?

Thanks, first post, I'm trying.

Welcome KayCherry! Apparently the Great-Grandpa is not being interviewed by the media because the family is protecting him. He is reported to be in poor mental and physical health. There are a few pictures of him on Jessica's mother's FB page, but we are not allowed to post links here.

We don't know if anybody saw DeOrr other than the family and the GGP's friend. There are a lot of people questioning if he was even there.

 

[TxJan1971]

O/T Re: Dylan Redwine Update

http://kdvr.com/2015/08/19/dylan-redwines-death-declared-homicide-dad-ided-as-person-of-interest/

[url]http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?284450-Person-of-Interest-Identified-in-Dylan-Redwine-case/page25
[/URL]

Thanks! Does that mean we can FINALLY rule out the "airplane peanuts" chasing, backpack, cell phone, & tennis shoe eating cougar as the POI ? :waitasec:

Poor Dylan. God rest his beautiful, too young soul. Justice will prevail. Truth wins. It always does.

And poor Deorr. Wherever you are, we are still fighting for you sweetheart.
Know that we are all still seeking the truth for you.

Thank you for sharing, Dee. I even lit up my signature line as it is truly appropriate now. I was saving it. In loving memory of Dylan Nicholas Redwine.