Found Deceased ID - Doomsday Cult Victims - Joshua Vallow, Tylee Ryan, Tammy Daybell, Charles Vallow *Arrests* #74

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There have been so many dates set for Chad's trial, it is difficult to keep track of it. According to this article, we are looking at about six months down the road, about October, 2023 (?), maybe. Chad waived his right to a "speedy trial" and the DNA evidence submitted was why the judge decided to sever the trials.

Probably direct DNA from CD, implicating him in Tammie's death? Or is there DNA linking him to the kids deaths?
 
They’re back in & Lori is smiling…

Lori Vallow Daybell WILL NOT testify.

Judge Boyce confirms with #LoriVallow that it's her decision not to testify. In her high pitch voice "Yes, your honor."

Archibald: We don't believe the state has proven their case so the defense will rest.

Closing arguments THURSDAY morning.

BBM

What a joke. And if the state had "proven" their case (which they did, IMO) what would you do then? Bring in witnesses and/or allow Lori to testify to try "disproving" the state's case? Lol. No, you're resting because there is no hope for your client at this point. I guess you've gotta do what you can for her though.
 
She was likely advised to smile and show the jury how confident you are that the case wasn't proven.

The attorneys have to be professional, they can't walk in gloating. But they can tell their client to step in like we just told you you are getting off.

MOO

BBM- That's a fine line to walk with a jury. Many won't take kindly to that
 
I agree, it has been a complicated case and tough to explain to a jury.

Absolutely true. Complicated-confusing-complex. Many places, people, alleged crimes, dates, events.

And there was a lot of testimony that wasn't at all about what Lori said or did, or in relation to the kids and Tammy. We heard a lot of testimony (way too much, ewwww) about icky lust and an affair (or desire for one), but stuff that's not illegal. Same with weirdo ideas.

I don't think that makes a guilty verdict impossible, but I do think it will take a LONG time for the jury to wade through all of it and put definitive pieces together that prove b-a-r-d. They have to sift through all the bits of evidence (and non-evidence) to figure out a verdict on EACH of the alleged crimes, each of which has multiple points that MUST be proven in order to come to a guilty verdict on that crime. It wouldn't surprise me if we have to wait a week or more, maybe even much more, to get a final result.
 
Absolutely true. Complicated-confusing-complex. Many places, people, alleged crimes, dates, events.

And there was a lot of testimony that wasn't at all about what Lori said or did, or in relation to the kids and Tammy. We heard a lot of testimony (way too much, ewwww) about icky lust and an affair (or desire for one), but stuff that's not illegal. Same with weirdo ideas.

I don't think that makes a guilty verdict impossible, but I do think it will take a LONG time for the jury to wade through all of it and put definitive pieces together that prove b-a-r-d. They have to sift through all the bits of evidence (and non-evidence) to figure out a verdict on EACH of the alleged crimes, each of which has multiple points that MUST be proven in order to come to a guilty verdict on that crime. It wouldn't surprise me if we have to wait a week or more, maybe even much more, to get a final result.
I don't think it will take that long. Maybe a week as you suggest but only because they are going to want to get it right and not be hasty. And they will hopefully spend time sorting through the texts because a case might be made that the most incriminating messages from Lori were about JJ with very little about Tylee or Tammy. There are separate counts for each victim and separate counts for conspiracy vs actually committing the crime. I do not think she will be convicted of any actual murder. I think she will be convicted on the conspiracy charges related to her kids. I'm not so sure about Tammy.

I think it will also depend a lot on the jury instructions. I don't think we will get to hear the arguments regarding jury instructions but I'm sure the defense is going to want a very clear, barrow, and strict definition of the legal meaning of conspiracy while the prosecution will want it to be broad. I hope we get to hear them!
 
I don't think it will take that long. Maybe a week as you suggest but only because they are going to want to get it right and not be hasty. And they will hopefully spend time sorting through the texts because a case might be made that the most incriminating messages from Lori were about JJ with very little about Tylee or Tammy. There are separate counts for each victim and separate counts for conspiracy vs actually committing the crime. I do not think she will be convicted of any actual murder. I think she will be convicted on the conspiracy charges related to her kids. I'm not so sure about Tammy.

I think it will also depend a lot on the jury instructions. I don't think we will get to hear the arguments regarding jury instructions but I'm sure the defense is going to want a very clear, barrow, and strict definition of the legal meaning of conspiracy while the prosecution will want it to be broad. I hope we get to hear them!
I'm guessing it won't take anywhere near a week. The jury has been digesting all the evidence (shocking, disturbing & disgusting evidence) and I'd bet dimes to dollars several have their minds, if not made up, close to it.
 
Summary of tweets for Tuesday, May 9th - Day 21


State rests their case, as does the defense.


Nate Eaton
@NateNewsNow
·
11h
Attorneys are back and Boyce is on the bench. He says we are breaking for lunch until 12:40 p.m. but some issues need to be taken up outside the presence of the jury. Jurors are dismissed. We will see what those issues are after lunch.

Lori Vallow Daybell will not testify.

We are back in the courtroom. Boyce is on the bench and attorneys are at their tables.

Boyce has some questions on the exhibits and wants to be sure everything has been admitted properly.

Before jurors are brought in, Blake says there is a clerical error in the indictment. She would like to get it corrected and submit an amended indictment to the court. The defense and Boyce are not aware of the error.

Boyce asks prosecutors to discuss the error with defense attorneys and then bring forth a motion. Boyce leaves the courtroom and we are in recess while the attorneys discuss the clerical mistake.

All of the attorneys have left the courtroom. Lori asked John Thomas something and he responded, "Just stay here."

While we're on a break, if you're looking for something to read...here's an interesting story. A Utah woman who recently published a book to help families deal with the unexpected loss of a loved one a year after her own husband’s death is now accused of killing him.

He had recently changed his will & life insurance to go to his sister.

The defense attorneys and prosecutors are back at their tables.

A sketch from the trial this morning.

Edwards.jpg

We are waiting on Judge Boyce to come back into the courtroom.

Boyce is on the bench. "The state is preparing to rest but has brought up two issues. One issue is to argue an amendment or alteration to the indictment in the case."

Rob Wood says the state wants to amend some clerical errors. On two of the counts, 3a and 4a were inadvertently mismarked. Archibald asked for a copy of the amended indictment.

"The indictment that was filed here and signed by a grand jury foreman on May 25, 2021 - two years ago. It has not been amended for two years. We have requested the amendment as her defense team.

That's been denied and now the state is asking to amend it two years later and Idaho code indicates an amendment of an indictment cannot be amended...

so by changing the code sections of the statutes, their proposal is to change the code sections from grand theft with intent to deprive another to grand theft by depiction. These are different charges. They are not just mere clerical errors."

Archibald says this is a big deal and he is concerned about making the change. "This does affect the substantial rights of my clients and if that's the case, this error is fatal."

Wood says Lori was charged with grand theft by deception and argues there was an error in the indictment with the lettering...so it says grand theft with intent to deprive another rather than deception. You can read the indictment here: https://s3-assets.eastidahonews.com/wp-content/upl

Boyce says Idaho law allows minor changes to the indictment before the state rests but he's annoyed. "The timing if sort of unbelievable for the number of prosecutors who have worked this case for so long. It's not something that came up...until the end of the trial.

This is the kind of motion that clearly the court doesn't like having all of our jurors sitting around waiting for us. This could have been done by motion at any point before now.

At this point the court has to consider it but the rule does make clear until the time the state rests. The state has not yet rested."

Boyce does permit a change to the word "month" when it was listed as "months" in the indictment.

"Because the language of the indictment does include deception in the caption and in the charging language (rather than in the citation, where the error was made), the court would find the indictment may be amended."

Boyce permits changes to the indictment and asks the state to prepare it before jurors go in for deliberations.

Jurors are being brought in.

Lindsey Blake says there are no more witnesses. "The state rests."

Archibald says the defense would like to make a motion outside the presence of the jury. A sidebar is being held.

Boyce says at this stage of the proceedings, it is common to have time for administrative matters. A motion will now be argued outside of the presence of the jury.

Jurors will then be brought back in when it is done and Boyce will announce the schedule moving forward "depending on where things land this afternoon."

Archibald: "Rule 29 provides for a mechanism for the court to review the evidence that's been submitted and determine if there's been sufficient evidence on each count to proceed to the jury.

Under Rule 29 we are asking the court to review the evidence and determine if there is sufficient evidence on each county, including overt acts, to submit the matter to the jury."

"If the court needs time to review the evidence, we are not opposed to the court taking time. While the court reviews it, I will ask for a break so me, my co-counsel and investigator can meet with my client to decide how she wants to proceed with a defense.

I will ask for a 15 minute recess to go to a secure location so we can have an open discussion about my client's right to proceed."

Lindsey Blake says they have presented evidence to support all elements of the indictment and the case is ready to be submitted to the jury at the close of the defense's arguments. She asks Boyce to deny the Rule 29 motion.

Archibald: "If we do not present any evidence, then that issue would be moot in any event."

Idaho Rule 29 is the Motion for Judgment of Acquittal. Archibald is asking Boyce to consider this after reviewing all the evidence. You can read about the rule <a href="Rule 29. Motion for Judgment of Acquittal | Supreme Court.">here.</a>

Boyce says everyone needs to leave the courtroom except Lori and her defense team so they can meet privately.

There are around 75-100 people waiting outside the courtroom to see what the defense team will say once the doors open up.

We are back in the courtroom. When I walked in, Lori had a big smile on her face.

Boyce is on the bench. He says he has taken Rule 29 under advisement. Archibald says "we don't believe the state has proved its case so the defense will rest."

Boyce tells Lori she has the right to exercise her 5th amendment right and can not be compelled to testify. He asks if it's her decision to not testify. "Yes, your honor." she says.

Jurors are being dismissed for the day. Tomorrow Boyce will meet with the defense and prosecutors to work on jury instructions. Closing arguments will be heard Thursday morning.

Jurors are back in the courtroom. Boyce asks Archibald to advise the jurors how they are proceeding. "After consulting with my client, we don't believe the state has proven its case so the defense rests." A few jurors write things down.

Boyce says the evidence portion of the trial is over. "There will be a jury instruction conference with counsel tomorrow." He says they will be excused tomorrow and resume on Thursday with closing arguments.

Jurors have just left the courtroom. Boyce asks the parties to make themselves available tomorrow. They will meet informally and then there will be formal hearings. Unclear what time proceedings will be held.

“After consulting with my client, we don’t believe the state has proven its case so the defense rests,” Jim Archibald said.

Lori.jpg

Many of you asked why Larry and Kay Woodcock were absent from the courtroom this afternoon. Here is a statement from Kay:

Larry.jpg

Thank you all for your concern. This trial has been overwhelming to say the least. Today Larry was overcome with emotions causing him to feel sick. EMT’s checked him & he was okay. We came to our apartment and he took a nap.

We’re relaxing the rest of today and again tomorrow since the jury instruction will be later in the day. We appreciate your support and prayers. (photo of Larry was taken a few weeks ago)

Sketches from today

Sketch1.jpg Sketch2.jpg Sketch3.jpg Sketch4.jpg




link: https://twitter.com/NateNewsNow
 
Wednesday, May 10th:
*Trial continues (Day 21)-Without Jury (@ am MT) – ID – Joshua Jaxon (JJ) Vallow (7) & Tylee Ashlyn Ryan (16) (JJ last seen Sept. 23, 2019 & Tylee on Sept. 9, 2019, Rexburg; found June 9, 2020 buried in Daybell’s yard in Salem, ID) – *Lori Norene Vallow aka Lori Norene Daybell (46/now 49) arrested (in Kauai, Hawaii on 2/20/20) & indicted & charged (5/25/21) & re-arraigned (4/19/22) with Count 1 (for Tylee): Conspiracy to commit 1st degree murder & grand theft by deception (for Daybell, Vallow & Alex Cox) & other co-conspirators. Count 2 (for Tylee): 1st degree murder. Count 3 (for JJ): Conspiracy to commit 1st degree murder & grand theft by deception. Count 4 (for JJ): 1st degree murder. Count 5 (for Tammy): Conspiracy to commit 1st degree murder. Count 6: Lori only: Grand theft (related to social security survivor benefits allocated for the care of minors Tylee & JJ). Plead not guilty. DA will seek DP. Was transferred to Ada County jail on 3/22/23. Fremont County
Conspiracy to commit destruction, alteration or concealment of evidence charges dismissed without prejudice on 7/29/21. Fremont County
Resisting or obstructing LE, solicitation of a crime & contempt of court. All charges were dismissed on 1/3/22. Madison County
Trial began on 4/3/23 with jury selection & ended 4/7/23. 12 jurors & 6 alternates (10 men & 8 women).
Trial began on 4/10/23 (thru 6/9/23) @ 8:30am to 3:30pm. Trial will be held in Ada County. Trials have been severed.

Arrest & Grand Jury & Competency & Court info from 3/5/20 thru 3/30/23 & Jury Selection Day 1-5 (4/3-4/7/23) & Trial Day 1-19 (4/10-5/8/23) reference post #163 here:
https://www.websleuths.com/forums/t...ybell-charles-vallow-arrests-74.677118/page-9

5/9/23 Tuesday, Trial Day 20: State witness: Nicole Heideman.
For more info see post #211 here:
https://www.websleuths.com/forums/t...bell-charles-vallow-arrests-74.677118/page-11
State witness: Idaho Attorney General Investigator Nichols Edwards. Could be last prosecutor’s witness per Nate.
For more info see posts #220 [pg 11] & 262 here:
https://www.websleuths.com/forums/t...bell-charles-vallow-arrests-74.677118/page-14
State & defense rested their cases.
For more info see post #427 here:
https://www.websleuths.com/forums/t...bell-charles-vallow-arrests-74.677118/page-22
Jurors are being dismissed for the day. Tomorrow Boyce will meet with the defense & prosecutors to work on jury instructions. Closing arguments will be heard Thursday morning, 5/11/23. Boyce says the evidence portion of the trial is over. "There will be a jury instruction conference with counsel tomorrow." He says they will be excused tomorrow & resume on Thursday with closing arguments.
Trial continues on Wednesday, 5/10/23 without jurors. Closing arguments on Thursday, 5/11/23.

*Chad Guy Daybell (53/now 54) – Pretrial motions hearing on 5/4/23. Trial was set to begin on 4/3/23 was vacated.
 
I am worried. Not because of the testimony which I heard every night. I'm a true believer in her guilt. It's just fear - Casey Anthony. OJ. A jury may see things differently. So hoping the prosecution knocks it out of the ballpark. Would have loved Mr. Meadors to handle the closing. May Rob Woods or Lindsay Blake or Rachel Smith bring their A game. Fingers crossed.
I’m hoping for Lindsay. She is more fluent than Rob and Rachel.
 
There have been so many dates set for Chad's trial, it is difficult to keep track of it. According to this article, we are looking at about six months down the road, about October, 2023 (?), maybe.

That article is way out of date.

There was a hearing on the date for Chad, held during the Lori trial, and details reported. Although no decision was made, they ended up landing on June 2024 as a favorable opening, and about 3 months for a trial (it sounds like Chad's defense will be very aggresssive, including the intention to call 7-8 expert witnesses).

The reason they ended up there? The 12 weeks that they want to have wide open for everyone is a scheduling challenge because of its length. Everyone had other things in the way in fall 2023, along with concerns of not a big enough window possible with major holidays at the back end to interrupt everything. In winter-spring 2024, there were weather concerns and scheduling conflicts that went into May.
 
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I can't stop thinking about the tweet below and what the deleted photo could be about. My first thought was CD or Alex took a photo of Tammy's body to send to Lori but that can't be it (there would a trail).

I also can't shake the feeling that Alex killed Tammy while Chad stood in the corner and watched. I don't think Chad had the "guts" to do it. Even when Lori was whining to him about whether she should be doing something to hurry along the demise of her children (I'm paraphrasing from the tweets yesterday), Chad told her no -- she is doing everything right (by waiting). I'm sure Chad wanted the outcome, but I'm not sure he wanted to physically be the one extinguishing life.
My thought was Tammy saw the attack coming, had the phone in her hand, switched to camera and tried to take a pic as evidence but got nothing useful.

The murderer(s) present at the scene deleted it.

Total speculation, of course.

My other thought is that Tammy hung out in bed with her phone playing games, messaging friends, etc. And that's what she was doing in bed early, as Emma reported on that creepy 48 hours video.

MOO
 
My thought was Tammy saw the attack coming, had the phone in her hand, switched to camera and tried to take a pic as evidence but got nothing useful.

The murderer(s) present at the scene deleted it.

Total speculation, of course.

My other thought is that Tammy hung out in bed with her phone playing games, messaging friends, etc. And that's what she was doing in bed early, as Emma reported on that creepy 48 hours video.

MOO
i do the same, but instead of playing games, I'm on WS
 
I hope so. I wonder how many times these jurors have seen a trial with NO defense? (And, even if they aren't supposed to consider that as any sort of guilt... no defense sure looks suspect to most of us) imo

First time I've ever seen this. I'd be curious to know about other murder trials in which the defense did not put on a case and what the verdict wound up being. But, then again, this trial has been very unlike any other trial.
 
I hope so. I wonder how many times these jurors have seen a trial with NO defense? (And, even if they aren't supposed to consider that as any sort of guilt... no defense sure looks suspect to most of us) imo

It seems like it could maybe come off as offensive to jurors. You're here giving up your free time to serve on a jury and they don't think your time is important enough to even offer up a defense. Like you said, they aren't supposed to consider their decision but I think in human nature it factors in. JMO
 
Anybody know if ID is one of the states where if the defense doesn't call any witnesses then the state doesn't get a rebuttal closing?
I hope so. I wonder how many times these jurors have seen a trial with NO defense? (And, even if they aren't supposed to consider that as any sort of guilt... no defense sure looks suspect to most of us) imo
It’s almost like nolo contendere.
 
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