Found Deceased ID - Joshua Vallow, 7, & Tylee Ryan, 17, Rexburg, Sept 2019 *mom, stepfather found* #15

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Not abuse, but neglect. A doctor prescribed the medicine, so I think a court would consider it necessary. Likewise, a service dog that had been trained for him.

Remember, this is a civil case, not criminal, so the burden of proof is very different. Once CPS accuses her of neglect and moves to take custody, Lori would need to respond to counter that.

Hopefully, a real attorney can clarify or correct if I'm offbase here.
@mrjitty
@gitana1 @AZlawyer @Mormon Attorney
I'm not sure if this is what you were asking to clarify (and IANAL), but neglect and/or abuse found by CPS is a criminal, not civil matter. Anyone can report, CPS investigates, they make a recommendation to LE, if abuse or neglect is found, then the person is charged criminally. Those charges would then factor into the guardianship/custody (civil) proceedings as the GAL would use the information to make recommendations to the court. Moo.
 
I was just looking back to the first post in the first thread to see when news of the missing children first appeared. It was, surprisingly, 20th December.

Why did police wait 3 weeks to put this out in the news? Was it because of the shootings and keeping the investigation low key? FBI was brought in 27th November to help with the missing children.

What I find extremely odd is that Fremont County Sheriff's Office was already investigating Tammy's death when they were made aware of the missing children. My hunch is that someone on Tammy's side asked FCSO to investigate Tammy's death when they learned Chad had remarried. Then the two investigations collided.

Rexburg Police Department

MOO
In the interview posted a bit upthread Sheriff said they started investigating Tammy’s death because the got a call from AZ (LE?) suggesting they take a look at it.
 
If a doctor prescribes them, they are medically necessary.
That's not even close to being true. Doctors prescribe unnecessary drugs every day. Many states, especially more conservative/religious states like Idaho, give parents the right to refuse medical care for their kids and usually only make exceptions for immediately life threatening situations.
 
I was disappointed that the Dateline special did not delve into Lori & Alex's background. I mean, these two siblings seem like they are both totally unhinged. I want to know about their childhood family life/dynamics, what kind of household they grew up in, what they were exposed to in their formative years, what the parents were like, etc. What on earth was going on in that household to make this brother and sister into such monsters?
The Cox family will not talk to anyone, they have been secretive all their lives.
 
There has been discussion about whether Lori and/or Tylee attended BYUI. BYUI has a student directory online. No Vallows, several Daybells, many Ryans. There is an intriguing Ryan from Queek Creek Arizona where Tylee lived with a name very similar to Tylee. It's probably not her but could be if Tylee is a nickname.
 
Travel can't be restricted until one is charged with a crime. We still have a Constitution.
I have been wondering why they didn't go to Mexico. Dateline said they purchased tickets. Was it just that they didn't want camera crews following them around the airport? They must be getting used to having cameras in their faces by now. And why Mexico? Was that the first step on a plan to get out of sight and out of reach of US LE? If that was their plan why did they settle for so long in Hawaii?

It makes me curious... CD and LV seem to have traveled a lot, but from all I have read it is in the western US. I wonder if they have passports and can (legally) get out of the country.
 
I have been wondering why they didn't go to Mexico. Dateline said they purchased tickets. Was it just that they didn't want camera crews following them around the airport? They must be getting used to having cameras in their faces by now. And why Mexico? Was that the first step on a plan to get out of sight and out of reach of US LE? If that was their plan why did they settle for so long in Hawaii?

It makes me curious... CD and LV seem to have traveled a lot, but from all I have read it is in the western US. I wonder if they have passports and can (legally) get out of the country.

They can only take about $9,000 in cash. That may be the issue.

Of course, people can access banks anywhere.

But, staying in Hawaii brazenly is narcissistic. I wonder if they really even like the media attention. Normal people would be horrified. But, these are not "normal" folks.
 
In the interview posted a bit upthread Sheriff said they started investigating Tammy’s death because the got a call from AZ (LE?) suggesting they take a look at it.
I think it has been established that the call was connected to the investigation into the murder attempt on Brandon Boudreaux in Gilbert, as well as Charles Vallow's death investigation by Chandler police, but not yet to the missing kids.
 
1-2. Chad, presumably, was sleeping in the same bed as Tammy. He mentioned being shocked that he never woke up when Tammy fell or rolled out of bed.

3. I don't know as I haven't seen the Dateline special yet, but from the commentary in this thread during the show no mention was ever made of any of this happening, so I'm going to assume no.

4. Melani is a niece through Lori and Alex' sister who died many years ago when Melani was still a child.
Thanks . I read on 1 site that Chad and Tammy were divorced . I didn't think that was true but I never hear that he woke up to find her dead or anything , really , about her being found .
 
Just as a "Devil's Advocate" question, why would she lose custody of her children? Both of the Fathers are dead. That leaves Grandparents of JJ. What standing do they really have? Grandparents rights for visitation? Pretty nonexistent.

Idaho law on Grandparents rights

"The court may award visitation rights if visitation is in the child's best interest. Adoption cuts off all visitation rights of grandparents."

Grandparents' Rights in Idaho
Which means, because JJ is adopted, that cut off all visitation rights of Grandparents.


Lori doesn't even have to show up, they literally have no real standing. Sadly.
The case in Idaho that generated the order to produce the children came from a case where the State of Idaho is the adversarial party to Lori. It is not a case for or by the Grandparents. We have not seen the docket of that case by the State because such proceedings are non-public. It is separate and distinct from the Guardianship case that was filed by the Woodcock's several days after Lori was served. Under Idaho Statutes only State Attorney's (elected in each county) have standing to initiate a Child Welfare case. The Department of Health and Welfare which has the CPS function in Idaho does not have standing to do so. So, this is an action by the State and has nothing to do with Grandparents' rights which is an entirely different matter.
 
RE: Lori as a fitness instructor. Did she possibly teach Zumba classes? Tammy was doing a Zumba class and a clogging class at the time of her death. Is it possible Lori really did get a "job" teaching one of those classes in Rexburg? Could Lori have gotten close to Tammy that way? As a fitness instructor, she could have recommended certain supplements or even given a "sample" of something for Tammy to try. Speculation only.

Months ago, whenever I first heard Tammy was doing Zumba, I looked through Zumba leader profiles to see if Lori had one. I saw one that could be Lori but I couldn't be sure if it was her (it was before we had very many photos of Lori). I can no longer find the profile I was looking at previously. @diggndeeperstill did you ever look for a Zumba profile for Lori? I'm not sure if that type of thing could be searched with the "wayback machine" to find it if a profile was removed or made private? Zumba Fitness - Classes, Apparel, DVD's and Trainings

What if Lori wasn't an instructor - what if Lori took the same class? I found a Zumba class given at Tammy's school - Central Elementary on Wednesdays at 4PM. Seems like it would be open to anyone.... What if Chad told Lori where and when this class was?
 
IMO Alex's and Melani's quick marriages could have been a part of their cult's belief system to gather hand picked cult couples that wold survive the apocalypse. Lori and Chad "saved" those people in exchange for blind loyalty.
Yes. I think they got married because of the “need to be married to be an end days leader” belief. They probably do believe that they would be exempt because the are the mostest special-est of The Special. I think they did it to support their message and solidify their position as leaders for one audience only-their “followers”.

I don’t buy the legal spousal privilege, don’t have to testify explanation. These people lie as easily as breathing and flaunt their distain for the court. They wouldn’t think twice about committing perjury. They would likely lie on the stand as a matter of principle or their own amusement.

MOO
 
RE: Lori as a fitness instructor. Did she possibly teach Zumba classes? Tammy was doing a Zumba class and a clogging class at the time of her death. Is it possible Lori really did get a "job" teaching one of those classes in Rexburg? Could Lori have gotten close to Tammy that way? As a fitness instructor, she could have recommended certain supplements or even given a "sample" of something for Tammy to try. Speculation only.

Months ago, whenever I first heard Tammy was doing Zumba, I looked through Zumba leader profiles to see if Lori had one. I saw one that could be Lori but I couldn't be sure if it was her (it was before we had very many photos of Lori). I can no longer find the profile I was looking at previously. @diggndeeperstill did you ever look for a Zumba profile for Lori? I'm not sure if that type of thing could be searched with the "wayback machine" to find it if a profile was removed or made private? Zumba Fitness - Classes, Apparel, DVD's and Trainings

Hmmmmmm.
 
I wonder: Under what circumstances - and when - do Federal LE get involved in cases like this? I know the FBI was involved in AZ... but were they running the show, or just providing resources? Obviously the FBI can't respond to every request made by every understaffed or resource-challenged PD and Sheriff's office in every small town in the country. Are the Feds involved in a more significant way in this case now? If not, shouldn't they be?

Given the complications of the case - with now at least 5 or 6 different (relatively small) jurisdictions involved - without some central and very capable and powerful task force providing resources and direction, it seems unlikely that murder or conspiracy charges will ever be brought.

After all, nobody in Chandler really (really) questioned CV's death at the time (maybe for good reason, idk). Nobody in Rexburg really (really) questioned TD's death at the time (maybe for good reason, idk). Nobody in Gilbert seems to have really (really) pursued taking AC into custody or questioning him in the BB shooting (though in my mind there certainly was PC to bring him in - in fact, BB had to hire a PI - but again, idk). And obviously, nobody really (really) questioned JR's manner of death at the time (which, given what we now know about AC...).

I'm not blaming local LE, just saying that now that we can look back and see the number of involved parties, possible crimes, and locations/jurisdictions, the scope of the overall investigation is unbelievably large and complicated. Just compare the potential number of parties, crimes, locations/jurisdictions, and the quantity of digital / IT / SM / technical evidence in this case with that of the Rhoden investigation in OH - an investigation many thought was mind-bogglingly complicated, and one which took several years to complete (the trials may take even longer than that).
 
In the interview posted a bit upthread Sheriff said they started investigating Tammy’s death because the got a call from AZ (LE?) suggesting they take a look at it.
Gilbert LE, Brandon's attempted murder called not Chandler LE. With 6 murders a year in Chandler two involving Lori they were too busy to call the other jurisdictions.
 
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