IDENTIFIED! Valerie Mack - Jane Doe #6/Manorville Jane Doe - remains located Nov 2000 & April 2011

Discussion in 'Long Island Serial Killer' started by bessie, Apr 5, 2011.

  1. coldcaser

    coldcaser Well-Known Member

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    As for how she got to LI, I can't say whether a driver or public transit was used. A third option is she was picked up by the killer himself. Valerie worked the streets, I think it's safe to say at this point. I don't doubt she had a pimp and I hope they've identified and spoken that person if they do exist.

    I go back and forth between the two and one killer theories. Let's say there is one killer. First we have two cases in which we (the public) don't know how they were actually killed, only that they were dismembered post-mortem. For all we know, they could have been strangled. If that's the case, it's the disposal method that has changed. He would be switching from dismembering victims and scattering their remains to creating a personal a personal graveyard of intact victims. Still, there has been talk of I believe Melissa potentially being dismembered (if I remember correctly it was her arm). So my theory for one killer is just that he evolved. I think if we had more detail regarding how exactly VM and JT died and whether or not any of the GB4 were dismembered, it would be easier to sort out the one vs two killer theories.

    Let's say there's two killers. This is a bit more simple. We have one killer who dismembers, a level of violence and hatred on par with Bittrolff, and one killer who is more of a collector. Collectors are very hyper-focused on controlling their victims, even after death. He's created his own personal cemetery he can drive by whenever he wants to reminisce. He got off on the idea that only he knew where they were at all times. I think he regarded that cemetery as his greatest achievement in life. He was proud of the fact they were right there, with hundreds of people driving by every day, completely clueless as to what lay in the thick brush.

    Personally I do believe Bittrolff is responsible for the Manorville murders. There are too many coincidences there for me to ignore, chiefly the fact both happened in his own backyard as you said. Bittrolff bought land in Manorville in either 1999 or 2000 (I have to check my files). He's a hunter and would have been intimately known those pine barrens. Furthermore he was a carpenter with multiple workshop/shed-type structures on his sprawling property, where I presume he would store all sorts of cutting instruments associated with carpentry. Cutting instruments that could be used on a body.
     


  2. coldcaser

    coldcaser Well-Known Member

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    Mods please delete this double post. My mistake.
     
  3. Curious2017

    Curious2017 Member

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    I had not read that any of the GB4 (namely Melissa) were potentially dismembered. That is very interesting, and gets my wheels spinning for sure, but I still think LISK and B are two different killers mainly bc of the method of which they were disposed, and collection behavior like you had mentioned. But then you throw in all the manorville body parts found on gilgo and i second guess everything all over again.

    Yes very true, the manorville vics couldve been strangled as well. That was another trademark of Bitrolff with his first 2- found nude, strangled with severe head trauma. But i believe B has more victims out there, and i agree that the Manorville bodies are just too big of a coincidence for him not to be linked (although LE has stated that JT and VM are NOT connected).

    But then i consider the fact that VM was from Philly, last seen in NJ and was coming to LI for one specific visit. Is there an important link to Philly like Hart lead on? Bitrolff is obviously from LI, but could he be linked to either NJ or Philly? what could his whereabouts have been at that time? Anything is possible as far as them coming in contact with one another, but what a messed up puzzle this is to try and solve!!!
     
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  4. coldcaser

    coldcaser Well-Known Member

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    I wouldn't let the fact that the Manorville victims' body parts and the GB4 were both found on Jones Beach Island deter you from the two killer theory. That stretch of highway is the best area on the island to dump a body. The unforgiving landscape and the fact there's a long road along the entire way makes it both accessible yet also inaccessible, unlike wooded areas in which a body can only be dragged so deep in, and then you run the risk of someone stumbling upon them. This speaks to the killer's, or killers', intimate knowledge of the area.

    LE has said a lot of things. The fact is, both girls' remains were found in Manorville and Jones Beach Island. I think they know they're related. They just won't come out and say it, and they might have a valid reason for that we aren't aware of. I always try to take into consideration that this is an active investigation and it would hinder the investigation if certain information was revealed to the public.

    VM was last SEEN in Port Republic, which is where the Macks live and she grew up, so I wouldn't take that as meaning she necessarily disappeared from Port Republic. So little is known about Bittrolff. What I can say for sure though is before the recession hit in 2008, it was very popular for Long Islanders to go to Atlantic City to gamble and indulge in whatever else they wanted to. I know a lot of people who would go down there even a few times a month.
     
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  5. Nitroracer1

    Nitroracer1 New Member

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    What ever became of this theory? I like it but did le pursure or ignore it, we know they havent solved it,, was your poi wh?
     
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  6. Sallyla

    Sallyla Well-Known Member

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    Very interesting pose ColdCaser.

    Melissa wasn’t dismembered. Her mother said that at her funeral the police came and gave her a plastic bag with arm bones in it. That wasn’t because she’d been dismembered, it was because the police screwed up examining the scene of her remains/keeping the remains together properly.
     
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  7. Mountain_Kat

    Mountain_Kat Heca, Firimar !

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  8. coldcaser

    coldcaser Well-Known Member

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    I personally believe they were found intact. Still, some people have their doubts. Has LE ever directly commented on this? I’m just curious if they have or if it’s only been news sources. We all know they’re tight lipped at best though. Megan Waterman’s aunt described her as being “gutted and dismembered”. I recall reading something about Maureen possibly being dismembered too. Megan’s aunt could have been hyperbolizing or been wrong but it’s a pretty specific choice of words. Of course these are just rumors, and while I don’t think they were dismembered, I don’t think we can be 100% certain.

     
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  9. Mountain_Kat

    Mountain_Kat Heca, Firimar !

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    Megan's remains were skeletal. How on earth can anyone know she was gutted ? I'm telling you, all four of our GB4 girls were found intact. That is an established fact.
     
  10. coldcaser

    coldcaser Well-Known Member

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    As I’ve already stated twice I don’t think they were dismembered. I’m others’ theories they might have been dismembered which likely comes from what Megan’s aunt said and the confusion regarding Melissa’s arm. As for why she said Megan was dismembered and gutted, you’ll have to ask her that because I don’t know.
     
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  11. pocket_of_posies

    pocket_of_posies Member

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    I'm still reading up on this case so please forgive me if I'm missing anything. The reason for the claims of dismembering could be because the skeletal remains could have been scattered due to the environment and wildlife. Might have looked like dismembering to the untrained eye.
     
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  12. coldcaser

    coldcaser Well-Known Member

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    I think that’s what happened with Melissa’s arm.
     
  13. Michael Sampson

    Michael Sampson Member

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    Internet_20210124_083345.jpeg Kinda weird idk this is the coroner van or just abandoned van up in the woods, when I first seen this picture I thought they found her inside the van which is confusing for me but they actually found her in the black bag in the wooded area, it be crazy if the lisk own that van and put it there on purpose smh
     
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  14. Lanesmommy

    Lanesmommy Active Member

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    Which victims are you referring to? Manorville or Gilgo 4?

    Edit: Sorry I didn’t read the few posts above stating that you’re referring to the GB4.. I agree that they were likely not dismembered but a few may have been scatter due to predation.
     
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  15. Puggle

    Puggle Well-Known Member

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  16. Wheel Of fortune

    Wheel Of fortune Former Member

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    Megan’s aunt is Liz. She said in an interview (w I think Jeannine Pirro)that
    Megan was gutted. Here is the interview




     
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  17. Lex141

    Lex141 New Member

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    Long time member/lurker feeling bold to participate today :) I apologize if this isn’t correct forum or if this has been discussed previously, but would anyone know why VM age estimation prior to ID was so much older? If I’m not mistaken she was listed as a 35-45 Jane Doe.
     
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  18. LR1

    LR1 Well-Known Member

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    This post with accompanying video by @GeneaoLisa gives some insight as to why it can be difficult determining age in some cases.

    Q & A on Forensic Identification of Skeletal Remains
     
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  19. Lex141

    Lex141 New Member

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  20. Blueeyedbrowngirl

    Blueeyedbrowngirl Well-Known Member

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    Today marks one year since we first learned Valerie’s name and saw her face. Rest in peace, Valerie, you will have justice.
     

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