If you agree or disagree with the verdict, let us know why

[beccalecca1]

Reread the entire depo when you get a chance. There are quite answers like:

1) I don't remember ...
2) I probably did ...
3) Around that size ...
4) I'm not really sure ...

All of those prove to me that his memory was good on some things and not so good on others as one would expect after a period of time.

I understand that, but I'm specifically referring to his gas can statements. I feel like he just filled in the blanks with whatever at the time, because when you attempted to play it all out on a calendar it didn't make sense. He bought gas cans before LE confiscated his cans because they weren't in his possession. Wait, he bought the cans after LE took his original cans, did mow his lawn in that 6 week time period, but he didn't use his original cans.???

He could've just said he used his cans. I'm not sure why he didn't want to say that. Or, he could've say that he doesn't remember. Instead, in his depo, he is very adamant that he did not put the duct tape on the can because he would've done so in a neater way. He didn't receive his cans back with duct tape, so someone put it there... but it definitely wasn't him. What is the big deal with the cans and the duct tape? Was it because the older can was wiped down from all prints?

 

[HatesSociopaths]

Not at all. I don't believe she was suffering from a mental defect, she wasn't able to be productive in society, etc.

What I'm talking about is that she didn't realize, because of compartmentalizing, the amount of trouble she was surrounded in especially taking LE to Universal to her "office" and that's when she realized there was no way out of that. Someone who lies to that extent, IMO, is out of touch with reality. Obviously you're going to get caught in that lie. IMO, those who are in touch with reality realize there is no way to continue the lie.

It sounds like a description of False Memory Syndrome.

"False memory syndrome (FMS) describes a condition in which a person's identity and relationships are affected by memories which are factually incorrect but are strongly believed."

The problem with that diagnosis is that there is an inconsistency with the fabrication of the Universal emails, which is why I brought those up in the previous post. Casey knew she didn't work there, and wrote emails that pretended a boss was writing her.

[ame="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/False_memory_syndrome"]False memory syndrome - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia[/ame]

 

[onewick]

Actually, that was in reference to her taking LE to Universal, to her "office". She didn't lie her way out of that one, she was charged with lying to LE.

Um, yeah I know! And my response was at your suggestion she was "out of touch with reality"!!!!

I suggest you review the Universal Studio interview, yes she admitted she didn't work there, that was obvious,:banghead: however she continued on with all other lies. EVEN THE SUGGESTION OF AN ACCIDENT!!!

And

 

[beccalecca1]

It sounds like a description of False Memory Syndrome.

"False memory syndrome (FMS) describes a condition in which a person's identity and relationships are affected by memories which are factually incorrect but are strongly believed."

The problem with that diagnosis is that there is an inconsistency with the fabrication of the Universal emails, which is why I brought those up in the previous post. Casey knew she didn't work there, and wrote emails that pretended a boss was writing her.

False memory syndrome - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

I've never heard of that.. interesting!

I assumed she had some sort of dissociation disorder, not to the point of multiple personalities, much minor then that.

 

[logicalgirl]

Um, yeah I know! And my response was at your suggestion she was "out of touch with reality"!!!!

I suggest you review the Universal Studio interview, yes she admitted she didn't work there, that was obvious,:banghead: however she continued on with all other lies. EVEN THE SUGGESTION OF AN ACCIDENT!!!

And

Agree, it was observed that there were only two truths on her lengthy statement to the LE that night. One was her name and the other was that she was the mother of a 2.5 year daughter named Caylee.

All other information was a long series of lies. Proven lies.

 

[beccalecca1]

Um, yeah I know! And my response was at your suggestion she was "out of touch with reality"!!!!

I suggest you review the Universal Studio interview, yes she admitted she didn't work there, that was obvious,:banghead: however she continued on with all other lies. EVEN THE SUGGESTION OF AN ACCIDENT!!!

And

This post was to the post suggesting that she thought she could lie her way out of that one and it worked!

She was charged with 4 counts of lying, so she didn't get away with that.

 

[Sustained]

The pg. 107 I see refers to when he went to Sports Authority to check up on Casey. He wasn't with Caylee that day.

Attached is what I see at the top of page 107 :

 

[beccalecca1]

Attached is what I see at the top of page 107 :

Yeah, that is a lot different then what I see. I'd post, but have no clue how to.

This is where I'm reading his depo from though http://www.thehinkymeter.com/Library/CMA/depos/ganthonydepo080509.pdf


I stand corrected :innocent:

 

[onewick]

This post was to the post suggesting that she thought she could lie her way out of that one and it worked!

She was charged with 4 counts of lying, so she didn't get away with that.

If responding to a quote, it would be quite helpful to "quote it", rather than quoting a subsequent "quote".

Trying to follow this is like trying to "follow" the DT opening!

Thanks just trying to have a mature debate!

Oh and BTW, she is now appealling the Lieing convictions.

 

[beccalecca1]

If responding to a quote, it would be quite helpful to "quote it", rather than quoting a subsequent "quote".

Trying to follow this is like trying to "follow" the DT opening!

Thanks just trying to have a mature debate!

Oh and BTW, she is now appealling the Lieing convictions.

Quote:
Originally Posted by onewick
OR.... She was arrogant, conniving and calculating enough to believe she could lie her way out of that too! And it worked!!! she got away with murder!!!

Actually, that was in reference to her taking LE to Universal, to her "office". She didn't lie her way out of that one, she was charged with lying to LE.

Does this help?

 

[sacrablue]

IMO, the state didn't prove their case. IMO, the state didn't realize what they were up against, and they just assumed that with a picture of duct tape the case would be closed.

The State had two trials going on at once. Casey's actions and lack of actions proved her case for me thanks to the State's presentation. They covered all the bases. The only problem after all of this is a child died and no one will be punished. Kind of sad.

 

[onewick]

Does this help?

Oh for goodness sake, forget it! Jose?

 

[Italy]

I also don't remember LE looking into GA's actions prior to the disappearance and after her death. All of their evidence surrounded Casey, which is why there was no evidence on someone else (besides her friends of course).

According to the press conference with the major investigative team, they started by investigating Zenaida Gonzalez - based on information given to them by Casey. When they were able to prove that all of the information given to them by Casey was not factual, they expanded their investigation.

They stated that they eliminated nobody and it was through following the evidence that they concluded Casey was culpable. If you read Lee's deposition (w/ Baez and Ashton present) you will gain a full understanding of Casey's 1st story (actually she changed her story with Lee).

If the evidence had pointed to George Anthony, I feel certain that the Grand Jury would have issued a bill of indictment against him as well. The fact that after a review of material evidence in the case, the indictment was sent down for only Casey Anthony (and on 3 very serious charges) is very telling.

By all accounts, the investigation was exhaustive and thorough. To throw out a bunch of maybe it was..., maybe it was... is to pretend there was not a complete 3 year investigation into the facts of the case.

Nobody had any interest in pointing the finger at Casey Anthony at the beginning. At first it was a kidnap investigation. Why? Because that is what Casey stated. Then it was a investigation into the death of Caylee. There are 3 options: suicide, accident or unlawful death. The facts of the case led an impartial investigative team (which included both Orange County, Orlando LE & the FBI) to conclude homicide and the facts of the case led to Casey.

To suggest otherwise is specious speculation. If some believe that the burden of the prosecution was not met, that is their right. To throw out a bunch of speculative nonsense (including unfounded psychological assessments) displays a complete disregard for the facts of and basis for this case.

 

[Who_What_When]

What charge do you believe she is guilty of? Why?
Or do you believe she is guilty but just not proven?

I believe that she is responsible for Caylee’s death but I don’t feel that the SA proved BARD that “The death was caused by the criminal act of Casey Marie Anthony” which is required for first degree murder.

I thought that she could have been convicted of Aggravated Manslaughter of a Child which required the following to be true “The death of Caylee Marie Anthony was caused by the culpable negligence of Casey Marie Anthony”. I felt that even if the DT theory was true and it was an accident it would be culpable negligence since Casey was the caregiver AND she did not make any attempt to saved Caylee's life by calling for help.

IMO

 

[WillChgo]

Responses in red.

Quote:
Originally Posted by WillChgo
As per jury instructions:

"A reasonable doubt is not a mere possible doubt, a speculative, imaginary or forced doubt."

Just because there is a possibility of something occurring does not mean that it constitutes a reasonable possibility.

IMO, there is plenty of evidence in the case to suggest that your scenario is not a reasonable possibility:

1. The medical examiner's testimony. There were 2 medical examiners in this case, it was up to the jury to decide if they wanted to believe both, none, or either one.
2. Casey's failure to admit an accidental drowning when confronted by the investigators at Universal Studios-- that would have been an easy way out for her. Why if your scenario was true did she not take it?Possibly because she was in denial, one of the symptoms of grief.
3. Her brushing off her mother's comments when told of the scenario of the drowning accident.
4. George Anthony's testimony of what transpired June 16th.The jury had a choice to believe GA or not, and from my understanding they didn't believe he was credible.

1. Yes the jury can decide to believe the witnesses or not, but IMO, it is their responsibility to consider them carefully. Dr. Spitz did not consider the behavioral evidence in his testimony, only the medical data. He admitted ignorance of the behavioral data it in cross-examination. He provided NO evidence to contradict Dr. G's's assertion that in accidental drownings the family always calls 911.
2. Denial? Do you think she ever believed the Zanny story which she continued to espouse? How can this be denial. Yes denial can be a symptom of grief but lying is not a symptom of grief.
3. You did not explain this one.
4. No evidence was presented that George lied about what transpired on June 16.

To believe your story one would have to believe that all of Casey's lies and failures to report the missing child were due to grief. If that were true the jury should have come with a not guilty verdict on the charges of lying to LE.

 

[WillChgo]

No, I don't think she really thought she worked at Universal Studios.

I still hold the same post, why would she bring LE to Universal to pull the charade of her working there, she was in control of that situation. She clearly wasn't "grounded" at that point.

Respectfully, IMO your position is contradictory.

Yes she knew she did not work in Universal Studios. She was in control of the situation and at the same time was not grounded?

No she was NOT in control of the situation. She had been trying to get away with her lies, and as she usually did changed her lies when confronted with evidence to the contrary. She was backed into a corner, first metaphorically and then literally, which led LE to Universal Studios.

I truly don't understand how you can explain away her lies by arguing that she wasn't "grounded."

 

[pcrum12]

IMO, she left home for an obvious reason. There was no Caylee to bring home anymore and FCA didn't want to deal with the constant questions of "When will we see Caylee again ?". George states in his depo that either he or CA would watch Caylee sometimes while FCA was "working". And why did FCA tell GA in their jailhouse conversation what a great dad and grandfather he had been ? Acting to cover their mutual crime ?

As far as GA molesting Caylee, it didn't happen. I'd like to see Caylee's pediatric records and I'm sure the DT would have subpoenaed those records to see if there was any evidence of sexual abuse.

More importantly the SA should have! The OCSO should have! Not only that but they should have checked GA car, CA car, pulled phone records AND pings for BOTH CA and GA. They should have investigated the RK FIRST sighting of the remains and then MAYBE we would know if she was killed or drowned.

As to the drowning, maybe could have found proof. As to suffocation, they did have an expert that stated that there was no indication of suffocation to the inside of the skull.

Fact is, jury voted NG. And based on the trial record, drowning and molestation is part of that record. As to PROOF, not sure child molestation is going to show up in a pediatric exam unless you are asking for that kind of an exam. As to proof of Casey being molested, there's not going to be any proof. Proof of molestation is very hard to come by. As suggested on this thread, heck no one would ever be guilty of molestation cause there is no proof unless they were caught in the act or victim went straight to a hospital. Most molestation, especially incest, either goes not ever reported or at least not reported for some time. Sometimes 20 + years. All JMOO

 

[luv]

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eoeg6WciRHI&feature=player_embedded"]‪Who is Responsible for a Child‬‏ - YouTube[/ame]

 

[thedeviledadvocate]

The state matched the defense tit for tat when it came to gameplaying.
The state had the advantage of a couple of pro prosecution judges.
The state took every advantage they could take from JB's rookie mistakes.
The state was not out for justice for Caylee, the state was out to win at all costs.
The state made no comments to the media because the Sunshine Law allowed the state to comment without commenting.
The state laughed in court at the defense during opening and closing statements.

The state offered KC a plea deal, with a stipulation that she must admit to murdering Caylee. KC refused because she would not admit to doing something she did not do. During the discussion of the plea deal, the state learned of the drowning, yet refused to budge and dropped the plea deal completely.

The state reinstated the DP only a couple weeks prior to LL's re-election.
The state had some interesting interaction with JJ.
The state said 84 times, repeatedly.
The state hoped the chloroform was used before the duct tape.

LE did arrest KC briefly, as in she was in the cage and was in handcuffs, and some judges would have ruled that she was in custody and should have been mirandized at that point, however, HHJP ruled in favor of the prosecution.
LE did not secure the Pontiac until a full day or more after the 911 call.
LE failed in its search for Caylee in late July and early August, even after they had an eyewitness reporting he saw a skull. LE failed in its search for Caylee from mid August until December 11th, when the same eyewitness pointed out the skull again.
LE interviewed RK several times. RK was deposed a couple times. RK never told the same story twice.
LE CSI GB may have inadvertantly altered or destroyed evidence.
LE misspoke on the witness stand.
LE failed to find any blood or DNA in the trunk.
LE did not check items in the white trash bag for fingerprints until late 2009.

FBI saw residue of a heart shaped sticker, yet failed to take a picture of it.
FBI inadvertantly got DNA on evidence.
FBI decided it was best just to tell them they did not have the pictures.

JB saved JA from being disallowed by HHJP to continue on the states case when JA laughed after being warned by HHJP a short time earlier.

Dr. Vass's shockingly high chloroform statement was refuted by the FBI.
Dr. Vass never did the further testing needed to prove the fatty acid substance like adipocere was adipocere, because it was not adipocere and he knew it. Although adipocere can begin to form in a less than a day, it normally takes weeks to form.
Dr. Vass identified the wrong smell can in court.
Dr. Haskell's testimony was refuted by Dr. Huntington.

Two cadaver dogs alerted at near the same spot one day in the Anthony's back yard. However, the unmistakeable, long lingering smell of death was miraculously gone the next day as the same two dogs failed to alert.

Dr. G gave expert testimony that was so generic, any layman could have given it, but since she was a tv personality and on great terms with the state, she took over the case from her capable coworker. Her wink and near high five to the prosecution after her testimony was innappropriate.
Dr. Spitz testified that Dr. G performed a shoddy autopsy. Dr. Spitz wrote the book that is considered the "bible" of forensic pathology.

The jury was treated like pop tarts.
HHJP allowed the air sample in. First time ever.
HHJP allowed the hair with apparent decomp in. First time ever.
HHJP reminded everyone this is not his first rodeo.
HHJP has an unequivical appeals record.
HHJP denied multiple defense motions for mistrial or acquittal.
HHJP allowed the disgusting photoshop video.
HHJP knew the state would lose this case, so he wasn't worried about his appeal record being tarnished. He also presided over the grand jury that granted the indictment. He also saw and heard everything that was sealed and not allowed in court as evidence. HHJP, JA, LBD, JB, DS, and CM know if KC is guilty or innocent. They know if GA is a grieving grandpa or a bad man. They have all seen all the evidence. They know all the games they played. They know the whole truth, regardless of what they say in the media.

The state overestimated the evidence and shot for the moon, and they underestimated JB's ability to create rapport with the jury.

In spite of all the games, sneakiness, trickery, by both sides, the jury still managed to look at the evidence and make the right verdict.

As always, my entire post is my opinion only.

 

[WillChgo]

The state matched the defense tit for tat when it came to gameplaying.
The state had the advantage of a couple of pro prosecution judges.

....
....
In spite of all the games, sneakiness, trickery, by both sides, the jury still managed to look at the evidence and make the right verdict.

As always, my entire post is my opinion only.

I thought you said earlier that she was culpably negligent. If so, how can you say now that the jury made the right verdict?

Would you have accepted manslaughter as a compromise?