Found Deceased IN - Abby & Libby - The Delphi Murders - Richard Allen Arrested - #158

[IceIce9]

I never go into a CVS.

In small Indiana towns CVS is often the only option. People purchase groceries, school and office supplies, toys, socks, underwear, etc. as well as health and beauty, medical and prescriptions.

 

[JohnTate90210]

Had he not stepped forward and talked to police, would he have ever been connected? Did his wife tell him he’d best tell them?

On hindsight it makes one wonder why this took so long. Witnesses only describe one male. One male came forward and his story matched the others. Everybody, including him, stated matches to the clothes. A quick check would show he bought a gun with the matching caliber. There may have been tons of tips but not many from people who were actually there (interestingly multiple young females but not males).

And why was the full video kept away from the public? That seems like a major mistake. It apparently shows him follow the girls. One of them says “gun”. He directs them down the hill. Is there some reason it was withheld. Was it to make him fear there was more? Was it withheld just to conceala gun was involved?

Just how precise is the bullet match? It’s not ballistics. The probable cause says it’s subjective which sounds iffy. Did they also find bullets from the same lot at his house? Were there souvenirs? It’s certainly not mentioned.

 

[Elley Mae]

100% agree. It doesn't appear that a single witness actually IDs RA. Instead, they describe BG. But we already know that BG was there because Libby captured him on her phone. And RA, who dressed like BG, placed himself on the bridge, even if he isn't BG. If these witnesses could not and did not ID RA, LE should proceed very carefully. This is where a witness can become a total disaster and sink a prosecution.

As an aside, it's the same for the vehicle. No witness IDed that vehicle as belonging to RA. Instead, LE decided that the smart car could have been RA's Ford Focus.

Someone said suv as well i wonder if the focus was a hatchback.

 

[Facinatingtimes]

Yes that’s the only explanation, the interview of the one guy there that day who met the description of bridge guy was put in a pile that wasn’t read for almost 6 years!
It’s baffling.
The tip sheet was created based on a officer’s interview of Allen in 2017.
Then they finally did a second interview on October 16, 2022.
In that interview he basically described himself as bridge guy and they got a search warrant!

Quoting the affidavit: bbm

“Investigators reviewing prior tips encountered a tip narrative from an officer who interviewed Richard M Allen in 2017. That narrative stated:
Mr. Allen was on the trail between 1330-1530. He parked at the old Farm Bureau building and walked to the new Freedom Bridge. While at the Freedom Bridge he saw three females. He noted one was taller and had brown or black hair. He did not remember the description nor did he speak with them. He walked from the Freedom Bridge to the High Bridge. He did not see anybody, although he stated he was watching a stock ticker on his phone as he walked. He stated there were vehicles parked at the High Bridge trail head, however did not pay attention to them. He did not take any photos or video.
…

On October 13 2022 Richard Allen was interviewed again by investigators. He advised he was on the trails on February 13,2017. He stated he saw juvenile girls on the trails east of Freedom Bridge and that he went on to the Monon High Bridge. Richard Allen further stated he went out on to the Monon High Bridge to watch the fish. Later in his statement, he said he walked out to the first platform on the bridge. He stated he then walked back, sat on a bench on the trail and then left. He stated he parked his car on the side of an old building. He told investigators that he was wearing blue jeans and a blue or black Carhartt jacket with a hood. He advised he may have been wearing some other head covering as well. He further claimed he saw no one else except for the juvenile girls he saw east of the Freedom Bridge. He told investigators that he owns firearms and they are at his home.

Richard Allen Probable Cause Affidavit

I can conceive of how a tip could get looked over in a large database, reams of paper, etc. But wouldn’t the officer that took this statement from RA in 2017 be like “hey people!!!! over here!!! Listen to this!!,,”

 

[gritguy]

Talking about the gun.

The extractor match is based on a scientific method but the match conclusion is "subjective in nature" (quoting the PCA itself) based on the examiner's training and experience. So the apparent quality of the match isn't known nor the qualifications or the examiner. This is solid for a PCA of course but you can bet the defense will be testing this and will not concede the round found at the scene was from RA's handgun.

Why a racked round was found at the scene is totally speculative. It could have been a previously racked round dropped there, though that seems extremely unlikely. It could have been inadvertently dropped and left while intentionally racking the gun for some unknown reason. It does suggest this gun was not used to actually murder, or there would have been bullets to compare and perhaps spent shell casings (if they were not picked up by perp had that happened).

On the p226, he owned that gun for many years prior to the crime so if he was the bad guy it does not appear bought for the purpose of this particular crime. While expensive, it's not more so than many other handguns, being more than a Glock and less than other brands. .40 caliber became popular in law enforcement and was marketed heavily on the civilian side and many people bought a gun in this caliber as stronger than a 9mm but still able to pack more rounds than say a .45 cal. It's not as popular for civilians as 9mm as ammo is typically more expensive and other reasons. So while not the most popular caliber, it's not particularly rare. The p226 itself has been around for a long time and is sold in many configurations. I have 3 still and it's not a gun I regularly carry as it's kind of big compared to quality newer designs, but it is generally very reliable and easy to operate.

Personally I find the PCA more compelling than the defense originally indicated (no surprise there and they are doing their jobs) but still the evidence chain is lean for a case in chief, just IMO. Of course they may have other evidence. I was mostly surprised the PCA did not appear to relate in any way to a 2nd person, which I understood to be a reason for sealing it. But it strikes me somebody set that meeting up whether it was the guy on the bridge or someone else.

I am not a big fan of secret stuff but do concede that for example not telling about the mention of a gun on the video and the recovery of a round might had reduced the chance the bad guy would get rid of or alter the fire arm used for abduction. If the evidence here is correct, that chain of events is completely critical to the evidence. I've watched the case from afar like many people and want it solved and have been frustrated with LE but to me here's a case where I concede the frustration of my desire to know was obviously helpful to the case.

 

[asyousay]

Surely at the moment it comes down to totality of the information.

So the Gun bullet alone isn’t total proof but when you add in he has placed himself on the bridge , dressed exactly the same as bridge guy and a adult female who saw him on the first platform turns around and walks back and sees Libby and Abby pass her so he was on the bridge literally minutes before the girls were about to walk across.

 

[LeBlack]

RA is 5’7” which was established in numerous comments right here using his booking photo to determine (his height).

MOO he was wearing booster shoes. IMO, he's an angry little man.

 

[Tillicum]

If you were married to RA, and suddenly on the day of the murders, his favorite Carhart you bought him disappeared, the one that looked just like BG's on the video, would you be suspicious?

What about that $1000 Sig he just had to have? The one he was so excited about getting? The one he would take out and clean and polish. If you were married to RA, would you be suspicious if he got rid of it right after the murders?

His favorite boots? One of his knives?

Many are asking why didn't he get rid of this or that? Others are asking why is she standing by him?

IMO if he had gotten rid of those things soon after the murders, his wife would've become suspicious. The fact that he didn't probably makes her think he had nothing to hide. All JMO.

 

[Trebor5591]

I'm interested in the knife, boots, and driver seat being ripped apart for blood traces. He didn't get rid of anything, so how likely is it he's cleaned all traces. Even with all this time. MOO

I agree. I think they will find traces of the girls blood on his belongings.

 

[WildHuncher]

I had to step away from this thread for a while so I'm not all caught up. Did LE ever plainly state that they believe RA is BG?

Yes. The PCA says Richard Allen is BG who ordered the girls down the hill, murdered them at some point, and left their bodies across the creek. There is no supposition in the document of other players waiting down the hill or otherwise involved. LE may be entertaining the idea of other actors. They hinted as much later in the unsealing hearing but no document we have seen yet mentions them.

 

[Lizmom]

Also didn’t LE say the suspect would be getting a kick out of all this as he liked power.


Well let’s be honest he was probably getting a kick because he couldn’t believe he had gotten away with it for so long.

I’m wondering if he enjoyed the fact he had also got one over on his wife as again it was so blatantly obvious when you look at the clues.


I don’t understand how anybody who knew he had been out on that bridge that day wouldn’t have have suspected it was him with voice and video and sketch.


IMO

Psychopaths(narcissists) get off on thinking they are smarter than everyone else. Not so smart to keep the jacket, tho!

 

[RedArcher]

Hopefully the search of his residence and vehicle brought more evidence that will be used at the trial if he is guilty, but what has been released at least tells us why they went after him.

This case doesn't seem very strong to me so I hope there's a lot more unreleased evidence to come.

 

[cattlekate]

But he admitted he was ON THE BRIDGE wearing those clothes at the time of the murder. So it's not really the clothes, it's that they have video of the kidnapper who was wearing those clothes on the bridge at the time of the murder.

Unless there were two guys on the bridge wearing the same clothes at the same time he's kind of SOL. The PCA made a big deal of the fact that witnesses only saw one person matching that description. It wasn't like a dad convention, where lots of 40-50 year old guys wearing carhart jackets were gathered to watch fish on the bridge as one does.

So these are my questions:

1) The PCA’s reference to RA stating in 2017 he was on the bridge does not have the investigator asking what clothes RA wore.

Maybe the investigator or conservation officer or whoever asked, but it’s not in the PCA.

2) The PCA’s reference to RA’s clothes is from the Oct 2022 interview.

 

[Elley Mae]

Was there a Ford Focus removed from hus home?

 

[steeltowngirl]

And he's not going to be dressed as bridge guy at the trial. So how will they ID him then?
That's my point

A witness isn’t needed to ID him. He already admitted he was there. The video looks like him. Voice sounds like him. The trial will be to prove he kidnapped / murdered the girls. One piece of evidence we know of is the bullet.

I do hope more crime scene biological evidence (DNA / fingerprints) will be brought to trial.

 

[Silver_produce0]

So, the PCA alleges these witnesses saw a man wearing blue or black and that this man is BG, and BG is Richard Allen. So, did those witnesses also contribute to the young bridge guy sketch? If not, which witnesses did, and where were they in relation to these other witnesses? If BG is not YBG, then who is YBG?

 

[newredtabby]

100% agree. It doesn't appear that a single witness actually IDs RA. Instead, they describe BG. But we already know that BG was there because Libby captured him on her phone. And RA, who dressed like BG, placed himself on the bridge, even if he isn't BG. If these witnesses could not and did not ID RA, LE should proceed very carefully. This is where a witness can become a total disaster and sink a prosecution.

As an aside, it's the same for the vehicle. No witness IDed that vehicle as belonging to RA. Instead, LE decided that the smart car could have been RA's Ford Focus.

Exactly. It's a defense attorneys dream. "So, you say a Purple PT Cruiser was parked at the old CPS building during the time of the murders?" Well, I guess that's the person that did it, then, because a Purple PT Cruiser looks NOTHING like the defendant's vehicle.

 

[scapa]

And, if RA did it and so clearly gave details of his location, clothing, and car near the CS, maybe he wanted to be caught. Some criminals know what they are doing is "wrong" but aren't strong enough to stop themselves and want someone else to stop them. (For example, maybe RA "knew" CSA was wrong and wanted someone else to stop him. Not excusing him but positing a possibility.)

If so, how any more have been endangered or hurt (or even murdered) by him being overlooked by LE for YEARS?

MOO.

BBM.

I think your posit is actually a strong possibility. Head down, walking with purpose, dressed in dark colours, avoiding eye contact --

This is a guy who was ready and not ready to do what he did, and must have been utterly dumfounded when no knock came at the door... until 2022.

While I believe in criminal coincidence, I tend not to believe in it in this case. The attire, parking the car in that surreptitious way, the gait, the timing, the sitting in wait at the MHB platform (IIRC) all point to RA knowing that A and L were going to be in the area and girding himself for the event. How and when he knew, if he knew, will come out at trial I expect. But this seems very much a planned crime rather than a "Go to the MHB trails and try my luck" one IMO.

But yeah -- 5 years, remaking his life to become Mr Helpful at the local CVS, declining to charge for the funeral photos, finding X or Y for Sheriff Leazenby... I'm not sure when I've felt sicker about a case since Holly Bobo.

 

[Tealgrove]

Let’s not forget, this PCA was drawn up with just enough information to produce probable cause and allow for a search warrant.

They proved Probable Cause and then they searched.

We know some evidence they had before the search due to the PCA.

We have no idea what was discovered after the search.

Again, RA was NOT arrested at the time of the search. He was arrested approx two weeks after the search and this is a significant detail.

So now LE has the vehicle, and they removed other articles from the home and apparently, something from the backyard. What those items are we do not know.

Obviously, forensics went to work on these items. MOO clear and defining evidence of RA’s involvement in the murders was produced from 1 or more of the items seized. DNA? Please let it be DNA.

Whatever it was, it bolstered the PCA and made a case for arrest.

It is premature to assume this case will not stand up at trial. We actually have NO IDEA what physical evidence the Prosecution has developed. Upon Discovery, RA and his team are going to have to decide if they want to fight or plea. The strength of the evidence will be a deciding factor.

It’s great that the PCA has been released and we can all read it. The strength or weakness of the case is yet to be determined.

Buckle up my friends, this PCA is just the tip of the iceberg. The storm is yet to arrive.

MOO

 

[girlhasnoname]

Was there a Ford Focus removed from hus home?

Yes his FF was towed from his home during their search on Oct 13th IIRC.