Found Deceased IN - Abby & Libby - The Delphi Murders - Richard Allen Arrested - #160

[Megnut]

Might the 'fanny pack' actually be a visible portion of a sweatshirt, his jacket hiked up so his hand can be in the belly pocket, weapon in hand, hidden but easily accessible? And the outline above that, a holster?

Guessing he walked with his head down to hide his beard.

JMO

 

[GA_Peach]

Can someone tell me if the FBI came up with the height estimate? TIA

It's suspect because there was no lineup. It was a six pack of 1 person. MOO

Exactly my sentiments. In a lineup, the witness is shown several people and is asked to pick out the person (s)he saw. What I fear happened here is that LE showed the girls a picture of BG and said, "Is this who you saw?" Apples and oranges.

With that in mind, if the girls were swayed by the video from Libby's phone, who is to say that the person with the recollection of the man dressed in all black isn't correct? I know that RA said that he saw the 3 girls. I can just see a 100 different ways that the information contained in the PCA works against the prosecution. Without significantly more evidence, which LE may have, I fear what the trial may become.

ETA - I think the most damning testimony is RA's own version of events, especially when combined with Libby's video.

 

[MaryWestmacott]

With all the questionable decisions and seemingly poor police work, it’s at least somewhat encouraging to understand how smart it was to NOT release the full audio of the video the girls made.

Knowing what we know now, it seems very likely that the killer did not actually shoot the girls. And it’s very unlikely that they would have realized they lost an unspent bullet at the crime scene.

They also likely wouldn’t have heard the girls state that he had a gun. So keeping that bit of audio hidden and tightly guarded was smart because it meant the killer had no reason to assume the police knew a gun was involved in this crime at all.

Had they felt the police knew a gun was involved they may have tried to get rid of it and the cops knew that finding that gun and matching it to the bullet was one of the few pieces of evidence they might have in this case.

 

[Annicade]

I wonder if relatives of RA were aware that he admitted being on the trail at the same time as the girls?

IMO they must not have been aware, otherwise you should or would have highly suspected him of being BG once you saw the video!

If he was a regular at the trails, you would imagine that he would wear similar clothing in similar temperatures.

I am also wondering how many tips came in from people who believed that RA was BG from the thousands of tips that came in?

Surely LE would have connected the dots earlier if people called in a tip that they thought RA was BG after he admitted being there?

Yes. My thoughts. If RA didnt tell friends/family/wife he was on the trail that day, red flags. I would also hope they are interviewing them all as well as finding health records- sudden meds/ hospital visits, computer/tablets/old phone history hard drives etc.
Also, phone records of before/slightly after date.

 

[Annicade]

Just some old videos to refresh up on

 

[Forpsy]

@Forpsy Your question from the previous thread Re: the phone(s)

According to more than one family interview, Abby did not have a phone. She had access to other devices including a Kindle that was her own. But supposedly at the bridge that day only Libby had a cell phone.

Thank you for your kind response. I have a feeling that Libby turned hers off even while filming him. I know her folks weren't able to reach her but she knew they (she and Abby) were toast if he knew she had a phone. I think she filmed him and then dropped it while they were going down the hill. He obviously had that gun on them from the get go. What presence of mind she showed. I don't know that I would have had the courage. JMO

 

[Bergmann]

Since the bail bond hearing is going to be Feb 2023 earliest then I have a suspicion that if this is going to reach an actual trial that we might be waiting till 2024 to get some of the answers folks are seeking.

 

[jdglove]

With all the questionable decisions and seemingly poor police work, it’s at least somewhat encouraging to understand how smart it was to NOT release the full audio of the video the girls made.

Knowing what we know now, it seems very likely that the killer did not actually shoot the girls. And it’s very unlikely that they would have realized they lost an unspent bullet at the crime scene.

They also likely wouldn’t have heard the girls state that he had a gun. So keeping that bit of audio hidden and tightly guarded was smart because it meant the killer had no reason to assume the police knew a gun was involved in this crime at all.

Had they felt the police knew a gun was involved they may have tried to get rid of it and the cops knew that finding that gun and matching it to the bullet was one of the few pieces of evidence they might have in this case.

I agree, and more.

The presumption has always been "find BG and you find the killer". However, convicting him might require more, connecting BG to the kidnapping and murders. Just being on the bridge and saying "Down the hill" is not a crime, and it only links BG to the murders circumstantially.

The information LE withheld was what linked BG directly to a crime. LE knew the bullet could connect BG to the actual crime if they ever found a matching gun. And the girls saying "gun" could reasonably be interpreted to mean they went to the crime scene under duress, making BG conclusively more than just a witness.

I agree that releasing information about the gun might tip-off the killer to dispose of it, if he hadn't already done so.

And there might be another reason it was a smart move. If it was not made public that the girls said "gun" (evidence of kidnapping) or that LE could link BG directly to the murder site, BG might be less guarded, thinking that if discovered he could always just claim to have been in the wrong place at the wrong time. He might even be more likely to come forward on his own. Or his family and friends, believing he was innocent, might be more likely to report him as BG.

But RA already HAD come forward. And if he told his family he was there that day and that he already reported all he knew to LE (truthfully), there would be no reason for the family to report him. It might explain why no one reported him for years.

 

[mrjitty]

I agree, and more.

The presumption has always been "find BG and you find the killer". However, convicting him might require more, connecting BG to the kidnapping and murders. Just being on the bridge and saying "Down the hill" is not a crime, and it only links BG to the murders circumstantially.

RSBM - surely not even the defence will contend BG didn't do the murders??

 

[mrjitty]

RA confirmed he is the man the three girls saw.

Right.

His problem is who he claims he didn't see

 

[mrjitty]

MS podcast confirmed one other thing.

The bail hearing is run with the preliminary hearing. That makes sense as they will both consider the strength of the case. That seems to be happening so late due to scheduling issues, but I will say the defence appears in no great hurry. Presumably they understand being successful at the bail hearing will require a lot of work.

 

[Ozoner]

Guessing he walked with his head down to hide his beard.

In the video clip, it looks to me like he has something similar to what this guy is wearing pulled up over his chin. I don't know what those things are called—neck warmers or neck wraps, maybe?

 

[Boxer]

In the video clip, it looks to me like he has something similar to what this guy is wearing pulled up over his chin. I don't know what those things are called—neck warmers or neck wraps, maybe?

MOO Gaiter.

 

[TwoLea]

Exactly my sentiments. In a lineup, the witness is shown several people and is asked to pick out the person (s)he saw. What I fear happened here is that LE showed the girls a picture of BG and said, "Is this who you saw?" Apples and oranges.

With that in mind, if the girls were swayed by the video from Libby's phone, who is to say that the person with the recollection of the man dressed in all black isn't correct? I know that RA said that he saw the 3 girls. I can just see a 100 different ways that the information contained in the PCA works against the prosecution. Without significantly more evidence, which LE may have, I fear what the trial may become.

ETA - I think the most damning testimony is RA's own version of events, especially when combined with Libby's video.

0ppp

 

[Yvettea]

In the video clip, it looks to me like he has something similar to what this guy is wearing pulled up over his chin. I don't know what those things are called—neck warmers or neck wraps, maybe?

Yes, he appears to be wearing a gaiter. Shadows and silhouettes are all that is seen to try to attempt a facial description. Walking with his head down and refusing to make eye contact further hid his features.

 

[Boxer]

Exactly my sentiments. In a lineup, the witness is shown several people and is asked to pick out the person (s)he saw. What I fear happened here is that LE showed the girls a picture of BG and said, "Is this who you saw?" Apples and oranges.

With that in mind, if the girls were swayed by the video from Libby's phone, who is to say that the person with the recollection of the man dressed in all black isn't correct? I know that RA said that he saw the 3 girls. I can just see a 100 different ways that the information contained in the PCA works against the prosecution. Without significantly more evidence, which LE may have, I fear what the trial may become.

ETA - I think the most damning testimony is RA's own version of events, especially when combined with Libby's video.

During the first days of interviews the still photo (released late on 2/15/17) was of BG being sought as a witness.

 

[Boxer]

Exactly my sentiments. In a lineup, the witness is shown several people and is asked to pick out the person (s)he saw. What I fear happened here is that LE showed the girls a picture of BG and said, "Is this who you saw?" Apples and oranges.

With that in mind, if the girls were swayed by the video from Libby's phone, who is to say that the person with the recollection of the man dressed in all black isn't correct? I know that RA said that he saw the 3 girls. I can just see a 100 different ways that the information contained in the PCA works against the prosecution. Without significantly more evidence, which LE may have, I fear what the trial may become.

ETA - I think the most damning testimony is RA's own version of events, especially when combined with Libby's video.

The differences in their memories point to being asked for their recollections.

 

[taylorss]

Yes, he appears to be wearing a gaiter. Shadows and silhouettes are all that is seen to try to attempt a facial description. Walking with his head down and refusing to make eye contact further hid his features.

I heard the name “turtle fur” somewhere & always liked that

It does look like he’s got something above his collar, & the witness said his face was covered…. but then he’s got so much crammed into that “Carhartt” doesn’t he? always thought it was rope poking out the top of his jacket, but at this point it’s like probably all the above with this depraved loser

Being 5’4” seems like it would be a real advantage when it comes to hanging your head to hide your face… esp if you’ve got a hat on with a bit of a visor
imo

 

[taylorss]

RSBM - surely not even the defence will contend BG didn't do the murders??

IKR!! And yet that’s where they seem to be headed per their comments. But they can’t just show up in court trying to inch back from a vigorously asserted claim of actual innocence, even one as ridiculous as this.

So I’m starting to think they may have no intention of showing up in court at all ?? maybe they decided quickly that pleading this one out is their best shot. Esp if LE is so convinced that others were involved…. if RA can squeal first on someone else, maybe the state will take the death penalty off the table
MOO

 

[cbeagle]

RSBM - surely not even the defence will contend BG didn't do the murders??

The prosecution are not claiming he did, only that they were murdered during a kidnapping by RA.