IN - Abby & Libby - The Delphi Murders - Richard Allen Arrested - #173

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DeDee said:
RA is being charged with felony murder for they allegedly died as a result of being kidnapping. Who is the P going to arrest for being the actual killer, Murder 1? Would a jury want to know who RA was leading the girls to on that day?
Click to expand...
^RSBBM

If the State contends at trial that RA did not act alone and that Allen’s charges of two counts of felony murder were the result of an accompanying aggravating act, abduction…

Then, at a minimum, a jury should want proof BARD that RA is BG. They will also want to understand his motive.

Everyone else (the families and the public) will want to know who RA was leading the girls to, because that person (or persons) is responsible for their physical murders, and as of now, is still out here. A killer or killers roaming free, (unless they are already incarcerated, or deceased.)

jmo
 
steeltowngirl said:
^RSBBM

If the State contends at trial that RA did not act alone and that Allen’s charges of two counts of felony murder were the result of an accompanying aggravating act, abduction…

Then, at a minimum, a jury should want proof BARD that RA is BG.

jmo
Click to expand...

RSBM/BIB

IMO, this will be the only real question at trial.
 
I'm not surprised they moved RA. I think it was a smart thing to do considering all the bad publicity around Westville and the evil Odinists. I bet the Warden of Westville is secretly doing a happy dance to have RA off 'his watch'.

I'm just worried how safe RA is going to be in his new environment? I sincerely hope they can keep him alive and ready for trial. With all the leaked info from the 'breach' of AB's office, the public knows a lot more about the CS than they did before. The Inmate hierarchy are not going to be happy with a defendant on a double child murder charge.

JMO
 
mrjitty said:
RSBM/BIB

IMO, this will be the only real question at trial.
Click to expand...
Per the PCA the RA is seen and heard on the video captured saying “Down the Hill”and the girls proceed to do so. I can only assume that this will make it quite clear RA was the individual that abducted the girls.
Considering how he appears to be smuggling quite a bit of tools within his clothing it’s easy to conclude his intent was beyond abduction.
IMO he planned to commit his crime in the woods that day and was carrying the items necessary to do so. If he was leading them to a point with other individuals then there would be no need to bring more than necessary to coerce.
 
www.indystar.com

Evidence leak, suicide, Odinists and legal chaos: Inside 'bizarre' Delphi murders case

Seemingly lost in the chaos are the most fundamental questions about justice for the victims and Richard Allen's constitutional rights.
www.indystar.com
Snippets:
----------------------------
...
"Increased publicity exasperates the public. It lowers the public opinion of the defendant and the defense team. It focuses the media coverage on the defendant instead of the victim. And it tends to undermine the dignity of the proceedings."

Seemingly lost in the hubbub are the most fundamental questions: Will justice for the victims and their families ultimately be served? What about the rights of Allen, at this time a constitutionally innocent man who will have been behind bars for more than two years by the time he faces a jury?
...
In the meantime, the two civil cases filed in the state Supreme Court are pending. Allen's criminal trial is scheduled to start in October 2024, almost exactly two years after he was arrested.

This delay furthers the victims' agony, Cain said, and lengthens an already painful process.

"Essentially the case entering a judicial phase should've been a moment where they can watch the system work, engender transparency and progress in the case," Cain said. "Unfortunately, that has not happened."
 
Cyber sleuth said:
Per the PCA the RA is seen and heard on the video captured saying “Down the Hill”and the girls proceed to do so. I can only assume that this will make it quite clear RA was the individual that abducted the girls.
Considering how he appears to be smuggling quite a bit of tools within his clothing it’s easy to conclude his intent was beyond abduction.
IMO he planned to commit his crime in the woods that day and was carrying the items necessary to do so. If he was leading them to a point with other individuals then there would be no need to bring more than necessary to coerce.
Click to expand...

Agreed. IMO the only question at trial will be whether Bridge Guy was RA.

All the rest will be inferred by the jury. it doesn't even really matter if there were others involved.
 
Glad to see this got mentioned. By all means disagree with their coverage. But the attacks on them have been beyond disgusting. Especially claims, based on no evidence, that they have somehow tried to bring down the defence, by <checks notes> reporting leaked discovery to the police.

The case has also spawned a cottage industry of content creators and true crime podcasters. Some of them, including podcasters and husband-and-wife team Áine Cain and Kevin Greenlee, received the leaked crime scene photos and have themselves become targets of personal attacks and harassment for their coverage of the case.

The house where Greenlee and Cain live was posted on Discord. A fake account on X, formerly Twitter, also was created to mock and disparage the couple and their popular podcast.

"I don't think people who haven't reported on this case understand how bizarre it is," said Greenlee, an attorney who co-hosts the Murder Sheet podcast with Cain. "It's a bizarre online community."
Click to expand...

eu.indystar.com

Evidence leak, suicide, Odinists and legal chaos: Inside 'bizarre' Delphi murders case

Seemingly lost in the chaos are the most fundamental questions about justice for the victims and Richard Allen's constitutional rights.
eu.indystar.com
 
TL4S said:
Why was the AG involved with moving RA?
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The Indiana Attorney General's office represents the State and its agencies, officials and employees in state and federal courts in complex and significant interest cases

About the Office

www.in.gov www.in.gov

The Department of Corrections is an Indiana agency. Under Gull's previous motion the IDOC is allowed to move him for safekeeping etc.
 
TL4S said:
I mean, I can't help but wonder if the AG moving RA under the conditions listed isn't a glimpse into what else might be coming...reinstating BR and AB. JMO. And please don't rip me apart. :cool:
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It could be, but I don't know why they wouldn't have moved him to Cass County then? In the exD's motion to transfer Cass said they didn't particularly want RA and the headache, but would take him if instructed to do so by JG.

No ripping apart of anybody, especially not you.
 
girlhasnoname said:
It could be, but I don't know why they wouldn't have moved him to Cass County then? In the exD's motion to transfer Cass said they didn't particularly want RA and the headache, but would take him if instructed to do so by JG.

No ripping apart of anybody, especially not you.
Click to expand...
Cass County was a jail yes? Perhaps they are still thinking prison would be the most safe for him.
They would also need to find a place that has the resources and the space for him. I wonder if WVCF might be better suited if it is more rural (further from Indianapolis) and perhaps therefore has more space and it seems to have a lot of appropriate services for him.
1702066238598.png
WVCF programs Wabash Valley Correctional Facility
  • Interactive Journaling
  • Thinking for A Change
  • Oakland City University Correspondence Classes
  • Purposeful Living Units Serve (PLUS) / PLUS Quilts & Projects
  • Fatherhood Program (Inside Out Dads) / Special Events / Read to Me Program
  • Moral Reconation Therapy (MRT) / Military MRT
  • Prevention and Relationship Enhancement Program (PREP)
  • Substance Abuse
  • AA / NA
  • Re-Entry Simulation
  • Re-Entry Programming - S.T.A.R.T. / T.I.P.S.
  • American Legion / Sons Post 398
  • The Urban Ministry Institute (TUMI)
  • The Navigators
  • ABE/HiSet (Adult Basic Education / High School Equivalency)
  • Vocational Education
    • NCCER – Building Trades
  • Compassionate Companion Program
  • Literacy Life Skills
  • Suicide Watch Companion
Just an example of another facility, at Miami Correctional Facility which is closer to Delphi, they seem to have fewer programs particularly relating to mental health and recovery Miami Correctional Facility
  • Thinking For A Change
  • RWI
  • Indiana Correctional Industry Products (ICI)
  • PLUS Graduate Program
  • Inside Out Dads
  • Substance Abuse
  • Ivy Tech Community College
  • GRIP
  • U.S. Department of Labor Apprenticeship Programs
    • Barber Shop
    • Landscaping
    • Building Maintenance
    • Recycle and Recovery
    • Housekeeping/Sanitation
  • Grace College
    • ABE/GED
    • Horticulture/Landscape Design
    • Business Technology
    • College Correspondence Courses
Also worth noting is that WVCF is about 111 miles from AB's primary office in Franklin, while Westville was about 165 miles (according to google maps). For BR it's about 171 mile drive to WVCF and 71 mile drive to Westville.
So it's closer for AB, further for BR, and a lot further for the Allen County Defenders (106 miles to Westville, 229 miles to WVCH which is nearly a 4 hour drive).

My thoughts on speculative explanations/motives:
1. Perhaps they want to get rid of the perceived bias/danger at Westville due to the guard controversy, as they want to preserve the evidentiary value of the alleged confessions/admissions, and WVCF is legitimately the best fit for RA's needs.
2. Perhaps this is a sign they are anticipating B&R reinstatement so the distance from L&S isn't a concern.
3. Perhaps they aren't anticipating B&R reinstatement so the distance from L&S was strategic to impair his D's ability to monitor his conditions.
4. Perhaps RA was legitimately in urgent danger at Westville and DOC became aware and decided to move him to a new facility for his safety.
5. Perhaps RA is actually being violent at Westville and putting others in danger and they needed to move him for that reason, and this has been kept entirely silent in the media and courtroom due to the gag order. Personally I highly doubt this one, I think if that were happening there would be murmurs of it somewhere.
 
Last edited:
Ward Thisperer said:
Cass County was a jail yes? Perhaps they are still thinking prison would be the most safe for him.
They would also need to find a place that has the resources and the space for him. I wonder if WVCF might be better suited if it is more rural (further from Indianapolis) and perhaps therefore has more space and it seems to have a lot of appropriate services for him.
View attachment 466695
WVCF programs Wabash Valley Correctional Facility
  • Interactive Journaling
  • Thinking for A Change
  • Oakland City University Correspondence Classes
  • Purposeful Living Units Serve (PLUS) / PLUS Quilts & Projects
  • Fatherhood Program (Inside Out Dads) / Special Events / Read to Me Program
  • Moral Reconation Therapy (MRT) / Military MRT
  • Prevention and Relationship Enhancement Program (PREP)
  • Substance Abuse
  • AA / NA
  • Re-Entry Simulation
  • Re-Entry Programming - S.T.A.R.T. / T.I.P.S.
  • American Legion / Sons Post 398
  • The Urban Ministry Institute (TUMI)
  • The Navigators
  • ABE/HiSet (Adult Basic Education / High School Equivalency)
  • Vocational Education
    • NCCER – Building Trades
  • Compassionate Companion Program
  • Literacy Life Skills
  • Suicide Watch Companion
Just an example of another facility, at Miami Correctional Facility which is closer to Delphi, they seem to have fewer programs particularly relating to mental health and recovery Miami Correctional Facility
  • Thinking For A Change
  • RWI
  • Indiana Correctional Industry Products (ICI)
  • PLUS Graduate Program
  • Inside Out Dads
  • Substance Abuse
  • Ivy Tech Community College
  • GRIP
  • U.S. Department of Labor Apprenticeship Programs
    • Barber Shop
    • Landscaping
    • Building Maintenance
    • Recycle and Recovery
    • Housekeeping/Sanitation
  • Grace College
    • ABE/GED
    • Horticulture/Landscape Design
    • Business Technology
    • College Correspondence Courses
Also worth noting is that WVCF is about 111 miles from AB's primary office in Franklin, while Westville was about 165 miles (according to google maps). For BR it's about 171 mile drive to WVCF and 71 mile drive to Westville.
So it's closer for AB, further for BR, and a lot further for the Allen County Defenders (106 miles to Westville, 229 miles to WVCH which is nearly a 4 hour drive).

My thoughts on speculative explanations/motives:
1. Perhaps they want to get rid of the perceived bias/danger due to the guard controversy, as they want to preserve the evidentiary value of the alleged confessions/admissions, and Westville and WVCF is legitimately the best fit for RA's needs.
2. Perhaps this is a sign they are anticipating B&R reinstatement so the distance from L&S isn't a concern.
3. Perhaps they aren't anticipating B&R reinstatement so the distance from L&S was strategic to impair his D's ability to monitor his conditions.
4. Perhaps RA was legitimately in urgent danger at Westville and DOC became aware and decided to move him to a new facility for his safety.
5. Perhaps RA is actually being violent at Westville and putting others in danger and they needed to move him for that reason, and this has been kept entirely silent in the media and courtroom due to the gag order. Personally I highly doubt this one, I think if that were happening there would be murmurs of it somewhere.
Click to expand...
IANAL, but I'm going with either 2 or 5 (or both). The AG listed that specific statute for a reason, IMO, and I don't think that was for merely a perceived threat or legal counsel convenience. Jmo. It could add weight to the original safekeeping motion if the AG saw a safety concern for RA at Westville. Jmo.
 
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