Found Deceased IN - Abigail (Abby) Williams, 13, and Liberty (Libby) German, 14/The Delphi Murders 13 Feb 2017 #88

[MistyWaters]

LE have never stated whose DNA was found at the crime scene, nor have they stated that they have other pieces of evidence to support a conviction.

Even if someone identifies BG and if, say, his DNA has been found on a weapon at the crime scene, that alone still doesn't prove his guilt. Touch DNA for example does not prove that the person actually visited the scene or directly touched the object in question. The DNA easily could have been transferred by other means.

Circumstantial evidence implies that the defendant was involved in the crime. Cases based on circumstantial evidence are like pieces of a puzzle. Each individual piece does not have to prove guilt beyond reasonable doubt. However, the more pieces you have, the higher the chance of a conviction.

”Beyond a reasonable doubt” is the highest legal standard. The standard requires that the evidence offer no logical explanation or conclusion other than that the defendant committed the crime.

And although the photo, sketch and audio were a helpful tool for LE in inviting tips, considering the likeness is not unique to any one individual (40,000 tips), merely a resemblance isn’t compelling evidence to convict “beyond reasonable doubt” in a court of law either.

As you say, LE needs more pieces.

 

[Mamabear3cubs]

And although the photo, sketch and audio were a helpful tool for LE in inviting tips, considering the likeness is not unique to any one individual (40,000 tips), merely a resemblance isn’t compelling evidence to convict “beyond reasonable doubt” in a court of law either.

As you say, LE needs more pieces.

Going beyond that, it seems there are so many pieces LE is continually holding close to the vest in this case. Perhaps they should finally two years later consider which would have least impact to a case at trial and/or obtaining accurate information only the suspect would know... and release even one more piece of this seemingly endless puzzle. It just feels as if they aren’t getting that one tip they need due to the information just not being adequate enough or perhaps... if there is a suspect in mind... not enough to convince a loved one or someone who knows something that it truly is who they suspect. Maybe such little snippets is just enough they can lie to themselves or find enough doubt due to being scared or afraid of then being in some way related to the individual be it family, friend, acquaintance whatever, that they stay frozen and don’t come forward? MOO ofc

 

[margarita25]

Quiet as a mouse.

(Shudder)

Past the 2 year mark now.

Just a matter of time til they nab this monster, imo. Hopefully sooner than later. I’m thinking sooner, knock on wood. Feeling inspired with threads like these:

DNA Solves Cold Cases/Parabon Nanolabs & GED/Match.

 

[travelbug]

I believe they are saying and doing things to taunt BG or someone providing him with an alibi. There has to be a reason for LE to mention, on several occasions, "I know that voice" or "where do I know that voice from". I'm hoping they are subtle statements designed to put pressure on someone they have spoken with during their investigation. It could be directed at BG, an accomplice or a person providing BG an alibi. jmho

 

[Mamabear3cubs]

My post was intentionally vague in order to comply with TOS. If someone thinks my post has relevance I would hope they would explore further by checking out additional links that are a part of the original article.

How weird too, another POI and another dark colored Malibu in the past years news... what in the world is the deal with malibu’s?!

 

[Mamabear3cubs]

How weird too, another POI and another dark colored Malibu in the past years news... what in the world is the deal with malibu’s?!

My fault, didn’t add not POI in this case. Just another POI in another homicide aside from what was mentioned with another dark Malibu.

 

[travelbug]

My fault, didn’t add not POI in this case. Just another POI in another homicide aside from what was mentioned with another dark Malibu.

When I added the quote from the brother it was to emphasize his statement regarding the mileage on the car, along with some other information (on that link) from his interaction with his brother.

 

[DutchTreat]

How weird too, another POI and another dark colored Malibu in the past years news... what in the world is the deal with malibu’s?!

The question is, do POI's have a preference for dark colored Malibu's? Or do ordinary people turn into criminals/POI's after they bought a dark colored Malibu?

 

[StarryStarryNight]

Going beyond that, it seems there are so many pieces LE is continually holding close to the vest in this case. Perhaps they should finally two years later consider which would have least impact to a case at trial and/or obtaining accurate information only the suspect would know... and release even one more piece of this seemingly endless puzzle. It just feels as if they aren’t getting that one tip they need due to the information just not being adequate enough or perhaps... if there is a suspect in mind... not enough to convince a loved one or someone who knows something that it truly is who they suspect. Maybe such little snippets is just enough they can lie to themselves or find enough doubt due to being scared or afraid of then being in some way related to the individual be it family, friend, acquaintance whatever, that they stay frozen and don’t come forward? MOO ofc

Totally agree with this. LE begs the public for the last piece of the puzzle. After two years and no luck, despite a quarter of a million dollar reward offer, maybe the person with that last puzzle piece needs just a tad more info to realize they HAVE the last piece of the puzzle.

 

[sunsetbeach]

I was reading comments elsewhere (not FB or Reddit) and came across a comment that mentioned a news article about the bridge. The person had said something about what one of the people was wearing around their waist in the photo. There was no link and I was intrigued so found the article. I recall seeing this picture early on but never looked at it closely.

The photo is in the article. It has two men on the bridge. I’m talking about the man looking down facing the camera.

So much time has passed that I can’t remember if we talked about this picture.


Delphi's Monon High Bridge to be repaired

 

[carbuff]

... a news article about the bridge...
Delphi's Monon High Bridge to be repaired

Snipped by me.

Photo number two answers the question about whether the river is deep enough for canoes or kayaks: yes it is.

 

[StarryStarryNight]

The DN case was one that really caught my attention, but the case that still has me wondering is this one: Police won't say if 1988 Indiana cold case suspect linked to 2017 Delphi murders of two teenage girls.
I keep hoping they will make a connection (won't elaborate on my reason) between these cases. The location works. This article also provides more info about that case. I'm convinced that LE has at least one potential suspect in their sights, but they are missing the final evidence or can't break an "alibi" to bring someone in. I also noted this statement in the article: ..."One thing JPM cannot explain is the mileage on his brother's car. Three years ago, John acquired the dark-colored Chevy Malibu that was still parked Thursday in front of his trailer. At the time of purchase, the car had 250 miles on it. Why it now has 70,000 miles when John seemed to mostly drive to the Kendallville Walmart and back to Grabill is puzzling, JPM said." jmho

I wondered about this case and it’s relevance to Delphi also when they first caught this guy and read up on it too. I finally decided, in my mind, that this perpetrator seemed to be physically challenged enough to where I doubt he could walk easily across the RR bridge or walk “down the hill” while controlling two girls. Taunting the police is absent from the Delphi case also. I think the thing that got everybody’s attention was the new DNA technique used to catch him and it gave some hope it could be used in the Delphi case. If they have the Delphi killer’s DNA, a big “if”, this guy I think would already be charged if he was BG, since they could have already compared the profiles. That being said I agree and sure hope that it is looked at closely by LE.

 

[Anecdotal]

Even if someone identifies BG and if, say, his DNA has been found on a weapon at the crime scene, that alone still doesn't prove his guilt.

Respectfully I think you are mistaken.

If DNA from the weapon found at the crime was matched to a person and he looked something like the man photographed on the bridge (aka "BG") that person would be swiftly arrested. LE would of course then look to augment their evidence from his residence, phone records, etc. (And I also think it would be enough to convict.)

In some, maybe even many crimes I would agree with you. But the remoteness of the scene here makes a DNA<->weapon linkage extremely incriminating.

 

[Steleheart]

Respectfully I think you are mistaken.

If DNA from the weapon found at the crime was matched to a person and he looked something like the man photographed on the bridge (aka "BG") that person would be swiftly arrested. LE would of course then look to augment their evidence from his residence, phone records, etc. (And I also think it would be enough to convict.)

In some, maybe even many crimes I would agree with you. But the remoteness of the scene here makes a DNA<->weapon linkage extremely incriminating.

I Agree. The circumstantial evidence like phone records, etc placing him in the area, would mount against the suspect. But yes, DNA alone or phone records alone is never enough. The District Atty. builds the case not the LE professionals so whatever evidence they have will be decided by the DA if there is or is not a case.
JMO
ETA; we don't even know if a weapon was used as COD is sealed.
.

 

[TTF14]

My post was intentionally vague in order to comply with TOS. If someone thinks my post has relevance I would hope they would explore further by checking out additional links that are a part of the original article.

After watching video of JM walking in his jail clothes....he really doesn't seem to be physically able to navigate that hilly terrain.

 

[dotr]

I was reading comments elsewhere (not FB or Reddit) and came across a comment that mentioned a news article about the bridge. The person had said something about what one of the people was wearing around their waist in the photo. There was no link and I was intrigued so found the article. I recall seeing this picture early on but never looked at it closely.

The photo is in the article. It has two men on the bridge. I’m talking about the man looking down facing the camera.

So much time has passed that I can’t remember if we talked about this picture.


Delphi's Monon High Bridge to be repaired

The brown thingy must make it easier to work on the bridge. imo.

 

[Steleheart]

The brown thingy must make it easier to work on the bridge. imo.

It looks like an Iron crow bar or similar tool & using it to check for rotted ties, IMO

Delphi's Monon High Bridge to be repaired

 

[travelbug]

I wondered about this case and it’s relevance to Delphi also when they first caught this guy and read up on it too. I finally decided, in my mind, that this perpetrator seemed to be physically challenged enough to where I doubt he could walk easily across the RR bridge or walk “down the hill” while controlling two girls. Taunting the police is absent from the Delphi case also. I think the thing that got everybody’s attention was the new DNA technique used to catch him and it gave some hope it could be used in the Delphi case. If they have the Delphi killer’s DNA, a big “if”, this guy I think would already be charged if he was BG, since they could have already compared the profiles. That being said I agree and sure hope that it is looked at closely by LE.

ITA JDM doesn't seem to have sufficient agility to have been walking that bridge. However, he was not incarcerated when Abby and Libby were murdered. He is currently under arrest, and awaiting conviction, for the 1988 murder and the 2004 notes. But, we've always wondered whether there was more than 1 person involved and perhaps he had assistance. Indiana man arrested in 1988 rape, murder of 8-year-old girl after DNA match found on used condoms, cops say The wording of the Parabon NanoLabs DNA statement has caught my attention: "Investigators finally got a break in the cold case in May 2018. A detective arranged for DNA testing and analysis on evidence at Parabon NanoLabs and, in July, the DNA sample narrowed down possible suspects to Miller and his brother."
It seems like an unusual way of releasing the results. JMHO

 

[TTF14]

The brown thingy must make it easier to work on the bridge. imo.

Wonder what that little satchel is on his hip. (The guy in the rear)

 

[TTF14]

I'm sure this has been discussed a thousand times before, but is there an easy way to look up arrest records for Indiana?