Found Deceased IN - Abigail (Abby) Williams, 13, & Liberty (Libby) German, 14, The Delphi Murders 13 Feb 2017 #108

[SilentRogue]

Please forgive me if this has been asked before or discussed. LE has some evidence and some DNA. The DNA obviously doesn't match anything in the database. Several crimes have been solved recently by matching that DNA to a family member who registered on an ancestry site. Has that been done in this case, by any chance?

1) We have no idea if law enforcement actually has DNA;

2) You'll notice most solves by familial or ancestral DNA are cold cases;

 

[tresir2012]

I'm not sure how you're confused. That video, or stills produced from that video, doesn't show anything. You cant tell how covered he is or isnt, because its pixelated and from a difference.

As you describe above, some people see a hat, some see hair, some see a hoodie. There is no consensus on what you can see. The fact that law enforcement described hair color doesnt mean they used advanced DNA techniques to facilitate the sketch - it means we have eye witnesses.

The video (or the still) do not show anything clearly enough to form a conclusion regarding the degree of coverage on his body, objects in his pants or jacket, or the general age if the approaching assailant.

TY for clarifying. You believe the video shows nothing then. That's fine, at least 39 posters disagreed, the majority seeing a hat.
The witnesses unfortunately also can't seem to agree what they saw either, based on the new and the old sketches that have been issued. Hopefully the reddish brown hair is from DNA and we have some certainty I hope. MOO

 

[tresir2012]

An eye witness that gave details used the sketch.

Link please.

 

[SilentRogue]

TY for clarifying. You believe the video shows nothing then. That's fine, at least 39 posters disagreed, the majority seeing a hat.
The witnesses unfortunately also can't seem to agree what they saw either, based on the new and the old sketches that have been issued. Hopefully the reddish brown hair is from DNA and we have some certainty I hope. MOO

>at least 39 posters disagreed

39 different people saw three different things on one head. That in and of itself highlights the uncertainty the still and video provide regarding the appearance and garments of "bridge guy".

We have no idea what contributed to the varying sketches.

I assure you this wasnt a DNA generated detail. We'd have much more than hair color and a general description if they had DNA.

 

[tresir2012]

I wonder why they are swabbing and how they are clearing POI's without DNA?

 

[ab01]

I wonder why they are swabbing and how they are clearing POI's without DNA?

I have always been wondering if they started taking dna bucal samples from people in the beginning to compare with dna that they hoped they had recovered from the crime scene. And after the lab tests came back they found they didn’t have a viable sample. Yet they are still taking dna bucals from people they interview Incase new evidence is discovered.

As far as people being cleared through dna, I don’t believe that is accurate.

I believe some have been cleared based on alibis etc, but I’m not sure anyone has been cleared via dna

Jmo

 

[SilentRogue]

I wonder why they are swabbing and how they are clearing POI's without DNA?

New DNA techniques are developed semi regularly. At the moment, the may not be able to extract DNA or develop a profile. However, in a few years, as technology advances may enable law enforcement to draw DNA from a source they are not currently capable.

An example of this is the development of touch DNA, described here:

Touch DNA

"Even if suspects leave only 6-8 skin cells from the outermost layer of their skin, scientists can use those cells to develop a DNA profile."

So, that being said, while law enforcement may not presently have the DNA of the suspect, advancements in forensic science may enable them to generate a usable sample in the future.

That being the case, swabbing and collecting samples has 2 benefits:

1) Police can watch a POI's reaction. If a POI is adamantly opposed to a sample, despite being cooperative prior, or otherwise starts acting or appearing nervous, they have instilled fear and may look further. The opposite, as well, though to a lesser degree - a suspect who is cooperative and willingly gives a sample might give the impression that he's not their suspect.

2) In the future, if advancement in forensic Science enables them to develop a usable sample where as of now they currently can't, they can compare that sample to their current (then past) POI's without having to track them down or dig up their remains in the event that they died....

Finally, there is no reason to believe any suspect has been excluded by DNA evidence as far as I am aware. POI's can be tentatively cleared by a variety of means, such as corroborated alibis.

 

[tresir2012]

Good article on DNA from hair samples.

Challenges in DNA Testing and Forensic Analysis of Hair Samples

Thanks for that. It explains the possible problems extracting nuclear DNA from hair, especially without the follicle attached. I am hopeful though.

 

[tresir2012]

Please forgive me if this has been asked before or discussed. LE has some evidence and some DNA. The DNA obviously doesn't match anything in the database. Several crimes have been solved recently by matching that DNA to a family member who registered on an ancestry site. Has that been done in this case, by any chance?

They have said they have some DNA, the links have been posted. They do not elaborate what form that DNA takes however. So it isn't possible to give an answer on this ATM unless others have anything more specific to this case, to offer IMO.

 

[Gardenista]

What is the Renner video?

 

[TL4S]

Dbm

 

[Justice101]

>at least 39 posters disagreed

39 different people saw three different things on one head. That in and of itself highlights the uncertainty the still and video provide regarding the appearance and garments of "bridge guy".

We have no idea what contributed to the varying sketches.

I assure you this wasnt a DNA generated detail. We'd have much more than hair color and a general description if they had DNA.

Finally, some sanity. When it is all said and done... we are all here just out-of-the-loop Guessers (some of us are wild guessers and some of us are more educated guessers.. but Guessers nonetheless).

We all want to "help solve" the mystery. However, the reality is that in comparison to what LE has in front of them as evidence and investigated activities , we have absolutely zero in comparison.

 

[TL4S]

I'm more hopeful now since KG is supporting Gedmatch.

 

[tresir2012]

Finally, some sanity. When it is all said and done... we are all here just out-of-the-loop Guessers (some of us are wild guessers and some of us are more educated guessers.. but Guessers nonetheless).

We all want to "help solve" the mystery. However, the reality is that in comparison to what LE has in front of them as evidence and investigated activities , we have absolutely zero in comparison.

Deleted

 

[tresir2012]

What is the Renner video?

James Renner did a series of interviews on his you tube channel with different members of the families. He interviewed Kelsie twice and on one of the interviews she mentioned 10-20 kids at the trail. This is one of the things she 'debunks'. She says she mispoke and didn't see any kids at the time she dropped the girls off but she knew there were 10-20 kids there thru the day. This was one of several things she addresses. MOO.

 

[JnRyan]

"On Wednesday, police emphasized that a new sketch of a suspect’s face is not supposed to be a different take on a composite sketch of a heavier, older-looking man. They are, according to Indiana State Police Sgt. Kim Riley, not the same person."

Delphi murders: New suspect sketch not same man as in old sketch, ISP clarifies

Thanks for this as I've been looking for it. At the 22 April PC, they say the old sketch is secondary and the new sketch is primary. Then we have this 2 days later where ISP says they are 2 different persons and the old sketch is no longer a suspect. About 2-3 weeks later ISP Superintendent Carter says the killer could look like someone between the 2 sketches. If they are trying to confuse the killer about what LE knows they've done a good job, because they have me confused.

 

[bradfordsleuth]

JMO

If there is any blood, hair, skin tissue, semen or saliva left at the scene from the killer it sure is going to be difficult for his legal to team explain away how it got there once there is an arrest and it goes to trial (I really believe it will happen!)

Maybe it won't be DNA that nails this guy. Personally, I think it is going to be his own arrogance that does him in. He has already made mistakes that we know about (video of him walking, HIS VOICE HAS BEEN RECORDED, 'he moved around quickly' (LE know's something!)', A WITNESS, ....) and he is likely to make more as time goes on.

Just imagine the other mistakes he made that haven't been communicated to the public?

JMO - He has talked to someone about this case......for discussion purposes (not to confess) and if he has blurted out the wrong information and once that astute someone realizes that "Hey, that was never mentioned by LE, how does he know that, or WHY is he saying that?" then that someone is going to connect those dots quickly once they have a holy crap moment and realize how much he looks like the 2nd sketch (I believe he does!)

I am never going to lose hope that an arrest is coming.

All JMO and thoughts for today

 

[Deleted member 102539]

I really hope someone pays for this crime soon. And the police need not be too choosy and coy

bbm
Not too much considerateness on the status of the person, who can be BG. But what they need, is a fitting and not too small "glove" for the perp (think of OJ) - it may take time ...

 

[BradB]

Thanks for this as I've been looking for it. At the 22 April PC, they say the old sketch is secondary and the new sketch is primary. Then we have this 2 days later where ISP says they are 2 different persons and the old sketch is no longer a suspect. About 2-3 weeks later ISP Superintendent Carter says the killer could look like someone between the 2 sketches. If they are trying to confuse the killer about what LE knows they've done a good job, because they have me confused.

I'm afraid to say it but it might be them playing their last hand because they have truly nothing.

 

[susiQ]

I'm afraid to say it but it might be them playing their last hand because they have truly nothing.

OR, they know something but they can't prove it? JMO