Found Deceased IN - Abigail (Abby) Williams, 13, & Liberty (Libby) German, 14, The Delphi Murders 13 Feb 2017 #121

[Charlot123]

I agree, it’s almost certain that the girls had no idea who BG was. All they knew was that some creeper was following them.

BTW, I am not taking all that tape for granted. First, we don’t know what is tied up to what, time-wise. Second, not sure that the family listened to the whole tape. What is in the beginning, what is in the end, we don’t know. We were supposed to recognize the voice. Most didn’t. Some could have, but we don’t know how it all progressed.

Thank you for this important update @bradfordsleuth I had forgotten about it because of the coronavirus crisis.

Thank you to all of you for continuing to post in Abigail and Liberty’s case thread and for not giving up on justice for them.

I really hope the monster does not get coronavirus we need him in court in shackles.

My theory is, if they make all men in Delphi and vicinities wear masks due to CV scare, maybe he’ll become easily recognizable?

 

[asyousay]

I don’t understand why people would think the two sketches were the same person ?

The two sketches are miles apart and look nothing like the same man.

 

[katydid23]

In Pursuit with John Walsh----doing a story on the girls tonight---it's on after the commercial

 

[Awsi Dooger]

BG has got to be local (or semi-local) with def knowledge of the bridge area. No way did he just happen by. It interests me that the 4/22 presser was held at Wabash Erie Canal Center. I wonder why.

I don't think that's a certainty at all. Given the prevalence of surveillance cameras there are going to be more cases of killers who target cameraless trails for their prey. John Kelly in a recent one of his Delphi videos on YouTube (#23, I believe) emphasized that the one thing we know about Bridge Guy is that he is a trail killer. Then Kelly mentioned two prior murders who prioritized trails. One of them killed 10 people and the other killed at least 4 -- beheading them -- and is suspected in many more killings.

 

[Awsi Dooger]

Here is that John Kelly video. The segment I referred to begins at 3:29:

 

[katydid23]

I think they are doing a good job of summarising the case, for new people who may be interested in it.

All I can wish for, is for some spouse or family member to watch this, and finally do the right thing and turn in the killer.

 

[Charlot123]

JP was a stranger to Jayme. Yet JP targeted Jayme. We cannot know if his story that he saw her at a bus stop is true. We do know his attack on her wasn’t random opportunity. JP was a sick man with an agenda.

I can’t wrap my head around the idea that a perfectly normal stranger just happened to be on the trail that day and the girls just crossed his path and he suddenly decided to commit double homicide, then go back to his normal life. Random stranger flies into rage and murders two girls, having a bad day. No. A psychopath might, yes.

I believe it’s more likely that there was some type of previous connection between BG and Libby and/or Abby, even if it was one-way and unknown to the girls. Simply my own opinion.

We don’t fully know what evidence LE has. Can only hope that there is enough evidence to eventually solve this case and convict the person who murdered the girls.

While someone should interview JP re this case, I think JP was a totally different kind of a criminal. In my definition, “the Crusader”, programmed to get his Fair Lady at any cost, even if it was getting her orphaned in the process. (The true crusaders left a lot of demolition on the way, but stopped somewhere).

JP demonstrates humongous alienation from reality, is in need of 101 course in feelings. One of the names for his complex condition is alexythimia, and I hope it finally got to him that his beautiful redhead’s childhood is totally ruined by him. But - he stands out in rural WI, he is an outsider. And he did not brutally kill his captured, orphaned teenager.

The Delphi killer is the Terminator, no hope there.
From bits and pieces of what one hears about the Delphi case...that person/persons’ hatred was overwhelming. He hates the world, the girls, the youth, the womanhood, everything. I think there is more underlying psychosis here.

But at this - and this is why I think he is older - he hides better. He is more deadly than JP, but he does not stand out like a sore thumb in the community.

At this, I do believe there might be some kind of cursory connection there between him and the girls, might have been a very simple situation.

 

[Charlot123]

Purdue University also has an airport. It is the second busiest FAA staffed air traffic control tower and the second busiest airport in the entire state of Indiana, according to Wikipedia. The Purdue airport also has 2 medical helicopters. In calendar year 2017, there were over 3700 passenger boardings. Much of the traffic, but not all, is affiliated with Purdue's aviation programs. The airport is also used as a charter for Purdue sports. Purdue University Airport - Wikipedia

I keep going back to the LE who said ( paraphrased) that he had heard BG's voice before, he just couldn't place where he had heard it. Maybe he heard BG's voice at the airport?

You know, it is totally imaginative, but imagine BG, who could be knowing the girls very cursory, came up to one of them and said, “hi, my friend has a plane and invites me on a scenic tour with him. How about joining me?” Being 14, i’d fall for it, and ask if I could take a friend with me. Delphi has no mall, no recreational activity to speak of except for these trails, i’d fall for anything that could seem fun.

 

[Ozoner]

Here is that John Kelly video. The segment I referred to begins at 3:29:

Quote:"The bottom line is, this guy's a trail killer, OK. He has joined the history of many trail killers around this nation. . . . There's no cameras. A camera's a witness. They know there's no cameras in the rural areas on the trails, so that's where they go. That's where they troll for victims."

 

[flashy09]

Did they open up the height and weight parameters a bit? I swear for awhile they were 5'6 - 5'8 and 180- 200lbs.

 

[TL4S]

Ok I just watched the In Pursit episode and I can't help but be again, so totally upset by ISP Carter's statements about the killer being a combination of sketch 1 and 2.

"Two sketches released in Delphi murders are not of the same man, Indiana State Police say"
"The man depicted in an old sketch released to the public two years ago is no longer believed to be the person who killed teens Abigail Williams and Liberty German in Delphi, Indiana State Police said.

The man in the 2017 sketch was a person of interest in the investigation during that period, police said.
Now, that's no longer the case."...

..."While both sketches were drawn in 2017, police clarified that the renderings are "not the same person."...

"The Delphi community should reflect back on people they know in the community that look similar to the sketch released on April 22," the release said."

I just don't understand the conflicting statements that ISP Carter has made. It truly baffles me as to why it continues without it being specifically explained, by him, as being a mistake was made and this is the correction. Isn't that what the whole releasing the second sketch was all about, righting a wrong? Apparently not in Carter's mind...why?
Two sketches released in Delphi murders are not of the same man, Indiana State Police say

Yeah, the sketch statements really are conflicting. Adding to the mystery is how the suspect's description, despite two different sketches, has remained virtually the same (except for age range). I would guess the description itself came from varying sources: witness statements, L's cellphone video, plus maybe some forensic evidence.

IMO, DC's conflicting statements represent what LE doesn't know: who BG is, or what he looks like. Perhaps the sketches are indeed two different people, but LE can't say for certain that BG looks like either one, because they have no idea. And how much of this comes from the FBI profiling? Did BG profile younger, so LE went with the younger sketch? Or was it evidence based?

Based solely on public information, I, personally, put less emphasis on the face and age, and more on the reddish-brown hair, height, weight, and clothing. Unfortunately, those descriptors fit a good portion of men in that area, which could be why LE decided to use the sketches to begin with.

Also, if any of the rumors are true about a scarf or other face covering, than the witnesses only got a partial look at his face, anyway.

 

[Dotrat]

Ok I just watched the In Pursit episode and I can't help but be again, so totally upset by ISP Carter's statements about the killer being a combination of sketch 1 and 2.

"Two sketches released in Delphi murders are not of the same man, Indiana State Police say"
"The man depicted in an old sketch released to the public two years ago is no longer believed to be the person who killed teens Abigail Williams and Liberty German in Delphi, Indiana State Police said.

The man in the 2017 sketch was a person of interest in the investigation during that period, police said.
Now, that's no longer the case."...

..."While both sketches were drawn in 2017, police clarified that the renderings are "not the same person."...

"The Delphi community should reflect back on people they know in the community that look similar to the sketch released on April 22," the release said."

I just don't understand the conflicting statements that ISP Carter has made. It truly baffles me as to why it continues without it being specifically explained, by him, as being a mistake was made and this is the correction. Isn't that what the whole releasing the second sketch was all about, righting a wrong? Apparently not in Carter's mind...why?
Two sketches released in Delphi murders are not of the same man, Indiana State Police say

I am right there with you, also the show said that the April sketch was from NEW witnesses yet, this sketch was drawn 1st. My own opinion, Carter, et al have been scrambling since April presser when they figured out they have been "played" and said "we are just beginning" They can not keep straight what they have said, not said and to whom. I am starting to speculate that they had that first sketch made just from the video and not witnesses because they needed to get "something" out there ASAP again, my speculation. Then as I recall in an interview with Mike Patty and D. Carter after the new investigative strategy plan, Mike said to him "you owe me" because D.Carter, LE really had many missteps in the initial investigation. Again my own opinion.
I know LE are working hard to solve this but maybe somebody need to replace Carter as go to rep. MOO

 

[StarryStarryNight]

I am right there with you, also the show said that the April sketch was from NEW witnesses yet, this sketch was drawn 1st. My own opinion, Carter, et al have been scrambling since April presser when they figured out they have been "played" and said "we are just beginning" They can not keep straight what they have said, not said and to whom. I am starting to speculate that they had that first sketch made just from the video and not witnesses because they needed to get "something" out there ASAP again, my speculation. Then as I recall in an interview with Mike Patty and D. Carter after the new investigative strategy plan, Mike said to him "you owe me" because D.Carter, LE really had many missteps in the initial investigation. Again my own opinion.
I know LE are working hard to solve this but maybe somebody need to replace Carter as go to rep. MOO

Totally agree.
In my opinion this case needs to be independently investigated at this point. Carter sounds like a babbling idiot when he talks about the two sketches. I KNOW LE has tried hard. I KNOW they want to solve it. But that’s all they say anymore. Defending how hard you’ve work isn’t changing the mistakes made or helping solve the case now. It is shocking how far off the rails this has gone since the April 2019 PC. We were all so hopeful. Independently investigate. Not just some TV show spouting out ISP-speak.

 

[sunshineray]

OK. Here’s my latest crazy theory. This is about Theory #5 for me, but that’s probably about average for all of us by now I’m thinking. So read it, think on it, pick it apart, point out it’s flaws. I am interested. Just be kind about it.
One thing that I could never understand is why the killer would purposely lead the girls across the creek in mid-February in Indiana. But...I accepted it. Until last fall when I stopped accepting it and decided they all ended up across the creek only because the girls had made a run for it.(see StarryStarryNight crazy theory #4) Anyway. Now the issue became if the killer was not leading them across the creek, where, on the south side of the creek, was he leading them. Maybe that deer shack upstream? Hard to figure. But there is here this scenario.

The killer drives into the long private driveway that goes under the south end of MHB. He doesn’t park it under the bridge but about 50 yards west. Lots of trees there according to the map.( I absolutely do not believe his car is visible in any photo taken of the bridge that day) He is there hoping for an opportunity to kidnap someone. He sees the girls start across the bridge from the north side and as they near the south side he steps onto the bridge and begins to cross in the opposite direction and passes them at some point. He then turns around and walks back toward the south end like the girls. Pictures and videos are taken. As the killer reaches the end of the bridge he tells the girls he is a bridge safety inspector or something and the bridge is unsafe and they cannot cross back over. A conversation ensues on how the girls will get back to trailhead and he says he knows a place to cross. They question it. He says “Guys...you cannot re-cross this unsafe bridge...down the hill”. (This is the gap in the audio clip. LE doesn’t want people to know he presented himself as an authority figure) They all go down the first slope to the private drive where he pulls a gun and tries to walk them to his car. They take off running down toward the creek and cross it. The killer chases and eventually catches them and kills them. He crosses the creek, climbs the hill, gets in his car and is gone.LE is concentrating on the other side of the creek and it’s trailheads etc and the killer was never really over there.
I know there some holes in it. So let me know what you think. In a gentle and friendly way of course.

I remember watching some video reenactment, to get an idea of the land, the person went down the hill and to the right along that pathway. The bank down to the creek was quite steep and inaccessible looking to me. There was though an area to the right that went through the trees that was very flat and isolated. It gave me the creeps. I thought at the time, I wonder if this was the actual area he had in mind but the girls panicked and ran from him.

I've also entertained that notion of BG pretending to be an authority of some sort and telling the girls they could not cross back over that treacherous bridge, down the hill.

It also sounds like after the "Guys" there could be some commotion, maybe girl's reaction to a weapon. So my mind is not made up on any of it.

 

[sunshineray]

Does anyone believe the girls may have asked BG to take a picture of them together? As in, he knew the perfect scenic spot to snap a shot?
Also I’m pretty sure I’ve asked before but after watching tonight, has there ever been confirmation that the witness (one of the girl’s dad), who inquired with someone on the bridge regarding whether he had seen two girls and the witness responded “I saw a couple under the bridge,” does it mean a couple of girls literally or a couple of to include two males, two different females or a couple intended to mean a male/female scenario? TIA
I would love some confirmation on the “couple” description please!

I would too! I don't believe it's ever been said officially by LE just what was meant by a couple. Didn't CE also mention hearing arguing? I not sure on that.

 

[sunshineray]

I am right there with you, also the show said that the April sketch was from NEW witnesses yet, this sketch was drawn 1st. My own opinion, Carter, et al have been scrambling since April presser when they figured out they have been "played" and said "we are just beginning" They can not keep straight what they have said, not said and to whom. I am starting to speculate that they had that first sketch made just from the video and not witnesses because they needed to get "something" out there ASAP again, my speculation. Then as I recall in an interview with Mike Patty and D. Carter after the new investigative strategy plan, Mike said to him "you owe me" because D.Carter, LE really had many missteps in the initial investigation. Again my own opinion.
I know LE are working hard to solve this but maybe somebody need to replace Carter as go to rep. MOO

The other very upsetting thing was when BP said I begged them not to stop searching, I could see and feel myself doing the same. Then MP adding something about it being so cold at night in February, just heartbreaking.

 

[sunshineray]

Totally agree.
In my opinion this case needs to be independently investigated at this point. Carter sounds like a babbling idiot when he talks about the two sketches. I KNOW LE has tried hard. I KNOW they want to solve it. But that’s all they say anymore. Defending how hard you’ve work isn’t changing the mistakes made or helping solve the case now. It is shocking how far off the rails this has gone since the April 2019 PC. We were all so hopeful. Independently investigate. Not just some TV show spouting out ISP-speak.

I believe a reporter needs to ask ISP Carter point blank to please explain this conflicting info released about the sketches. If he's going to continue to stress that someone has seen this face please speak up, people need to understand the best exactness LE is providing. AJMO

 

[sunshineray]

While someone should interview JP re this case, I think JP was a totally different kind of a criminal. In my definition, “the Crusader”, programmed to get his Fair Lady at any cost, even if it was getting her orphaned in the process. (The true crusaders left a lot of demolition on the way, but stopped somewhere).

JP demonstrates humongous alienation from reality, is in need of 101 course in feelings. One of the names for his complex condition is alexythimia, and I hope it finally got to him that his beautiful redhead’s childhood is totally ruined by him. But - he stands out in rural WI, he is an outsider. And he did not brutally kill his captured, orphaned teenager.

The Delphi killer is the Terminator, no hope there.
From bits and pieces of what one hears about the Delphi case...that person/persons’ hatred was overwhelming. He hates the world, the girls, the youth, the womanhood, everything. I think there is more underlying psychosis here.

But at this - and this is why I think he is older - he hides better. He is more deadly than JP, but he does not stand out like a sore thumb in the community.

At this, I do believe there might be some kind of cursory connection there between him and the girls, might have been a very simple situation.

"At this, I do believe there might be some kind of cursory connection there between him and the girls, might have been a very simple situation"

It's never been said for sure whether the girls might have posted on even numerous beforehand that they were headed to trails. Or whether their social media accounts were set on public. That's why what you say is very possible. IMO

 

[Ozoner]

I believe a reporter needs to ask ISP Carter point blank to please explain this conflicting info released about the sketches. If he's going to continue to stress that someone has seen this face please speak up, people need to understand the best exactness LE is providing. AJMO

We know that some guy was causing trouble on the trail a few days before the murder and interacted with several people. And we know that a witness saw someone doing something on the day of the murders that the witness felt needed to be reported.
-
My guess is that those two incidents led to the original and newly-released sketch respectively.
-
It's not a dead certainty that either man is actually BG; in fact, it seems that the first man has been cleared.

 

[Dotrat]

The other very upsetting thing was when BP said I begged them not to stop searching, I could see and feel myself doing the same. Then MP adding something about it being so cold at night in February, just heartbreaking.

I meant to mention that too(BP) , it really was gut wrenching to hear her say that, I know she and rest of family also Anna and her family must certainly struggle with feelings toward LE and being let down that evening and again 2 yrs later.