Found Deceased IN - Abigail (Abby) Williams, 13, & Liberty (Libby) German, 14, The Delphi Murders 13 Feb 2017 #126

[Falling Down]

The question in this case for me has always been, "Where was the vehicle?"

People speculate the cemetery, but if that is the case then witnesses must not be that observant since police have never asked anyone for information regarding vehicles parked at the cemetery. I have not been to the Monon High Bridge, but from online videos it does not look like you can see the bridge from the cemetery.

This is one of the main reasons I think police are on the wrong track. I think if you find the vehicle you find the killer.

The MHB cannot be seen from the surrounding countryside. in fact even if you were near it the gorge you would not see it during certain times of year due to the overgrowth.

 

[Falling Down]

No idea as LE didn’t include a description but from Delphi, Lafayette is the opposite direction, the distance between the Lafayette to Logansport is 40 miles. I’ve always thought the notion of the suspect walking or hitchhiking away from Delphi after committing a vicious double murder was highly unusual and so it wouldn’t surprise me if there was a person somewhere on the highway that he was later identified and cleared.

“We are asking people in Logansport all the way to Lafayette if they saw somebody around that late afternoon on February 13 walking down the roadway.”

That quote tells me nobody had said they saw anything fitting that description up to that point, LE were fishing for info.

JMO

 

[Falling Down]

There is a new video on YouTube that provides a good overhead view of the area, including State Road 25. But I was most interested in some rarely seen photos. In particular, freezing the frame in the 7:08 range shows the crime scene from an angle that I have not seen previously.

The bodies were apparently found within a circle of trees roughly 50-60 feet from Deer Creek. The circle of trees location has been verified anonymously by those with knowledge of the case. But the available photos and videos seldom depict a circle of trees in the area. However, I believe I see it at 7:08 of the video. It appears to match the logical criteria just above the small slope, roughly 50-60 feet away from the creek, which is at right in the video. Between the backward words "cross" and "crime" on the yellow crime scene tape, and toward the far side, there is an obvious tight circle of dark prominent trees. This is the best view I've seen of that

The circle or semi-circle of trees just right of center of the frame.

 

[Falling Down]

I agree with your entire summary. I was mesmerized by that road because it was nothing like I expected. I had heard the hitchhiker story so I assumed it was a local commuter road with occasional stops and convenience stores, etc. We have many roads like that here in Florida, where near-freeway speed is available but often you've got to come to a complete halt.

State Road 25 shares zero similarities. It is free flowing wide open spaces with huge gaps between vehicles and no reason to stop. How many hitchhikers are there in a calendar year between Lafayette and Logansport? Again, give me the under.

Hitchhiking and truckers sound a lot more feasible from afar than if you know the area or have visited.

State Road 25 in that area is basically a very thoughtful well designed road to connect several smaller communities to Lafayette in half the time or less than it previously required. The road dips around Delphi and several other small towns, staying just far enough outside city proper not to disturb anything, while also enabling locals to jump on that road toward the bigger city.

Another thing I sometimes forget to mention from my observations out there is C.R. 300 has a "dip" in it by the spot close to where the girls were dropped off. Something Google Earth will not show from up above, as you can't really perceive depth like that from up above. Therefore, there is no clear line-of-sight looking east towards the cemetery from, say, right after the sharp turn/bend in C.R. 300 by the houses and whatnot, I was distracted by the dip in the road and the trees on either side, next thing you know at 30-35 mph there's the dip in the road and you're by the old house on the north side of the road, and the spot where they were dropped off on the south side.

Unless folks have driven that road from west-to-east, they won't have a perspective of what those of us who have done so have observed. I almost passed by the spot where the girls were dropped off and slammed on the brakes some. Sped back up, and seconds later happened upon the cemetery.

Where they were dropped off is easy to miss, again, I'm convinced this BG had been there before, maybe many times in the past.

For reference, IN 25 opened roughly 2.5 years before the murders.

JMO

 

[StarryStarryNight]

Thanks to everybody who gave descriptions of the Hoosier Heartland Hwy. I had been picturing it more like an interstate with lots of exits and gas stations and convenience stores and their security cameras at those exits. But apparently, from the descriptions, it’s sort of a giant bypass of almost everything, with few stops. So how does that translate to this case? Some thoughts I had...
1) Less places with security cameras that might show BG along the Hwy since there are fewer available places.
2) BUT with fewer exits, that’s fewer places for BG to have gotten off.
3) It makes the Hwy an even better way to escape quickly.
4) Like others have mentioned, as the Hwy is described, I don’t understand why LE was thinking about hitchhikers and walkers along there. Doesn’t sound like that kinda place.
Just my thoughts.

 

[JnRyan]

That quote tells me nobody had said they saw anything fitting that description up to that point, LE were fishing for info.

JMO

That hadn't occurred to me, but it makes sense.

 

[JnRyan]

Another thing I sometimes forget to mention from my observations out there is C.R. 300 has a "dip" in it by the spot close to where the girls were dropped off. Something Google Earth will not show from up above, as you can't really perceive depth like that from up above. Therefore, there is no clear line-of-sight looking east towards the cemetery from, say, right after the sharp turn/bend in C.R. 300 by the houses and whatnot, I was distracted by the dip in the road and the trees on either side, next thing you know at 30-35 mph there's the dip in the road and you're by the old house on the north side of the road, and the spot where they were dropped off on the south side.

Unless folks have driven that road from west-to-east, they won't have a perspective of what those of us who have done so have observed. I almost passed by the spot where the girls were dropped off and slammed on the brakes some. Sped back up, and seconds later happened upon the cemetery.

Where they were dropped off is easy to miss, again, I'm convinced this BG had been there before, maybe many times in the past.

For reference, IN 25 opened roughly 2.5 years before the murders.

JMO

The spot where Abigail and Liberty were dropped off, was it right off C.R. 300? If it is the spot I'm thinking of, it is no longer available for parking.

 

[Blue Amethyst]

I have thought at different times that maybe BG never left the area. Perhaps he camped out within walking distance.

I don’t know how far from from the bridge the searchers went. He could have walked a mile or more away and nobody even noticed him. Maybe he had a tent out in the trees somewhere or in an abandoned farmyard.

Then he just slipped away in a different direction and nobody even saw him. JMO

 

[sunshineray]

Thanks to everybody who gave descriptions of the Hoosier Heartland Hwy. I had been picturing it more like an interstate with lots of exits and gas stations and convenience stores and their security cameras at those exits. But apparently, from the descriptions, it’s sort of a giant bypass of almost everything, with few stops. So how does that translate to this case? Some thoughts I had...
1) Less places with security cameras that might show BG along the Hwy since there are fewer available places.
2) BUT with fewer exits, that’s fewer places for BG to have gotten off.
3) It makes the Hwy an even better way to escape quickly.
4) Like others have mentioned, as the Hwy is described, I don’t understand why LE was thinking about hitchhikers and walkers along there. Doesn’t sound like that kinda place.
Just my thoughts.

4) LE was told by someone that they saw a walker or hitcher in the critical time frame after murders, IMO

 

[MistyWaters]

4) LE was told by someone that they saw a walker or hitcher in the critical time frame after murders, IMO

If someone was walking down the hwy and noted by somebody driving by at 60 miles an hour or whatever the speed limit is, I’d question how reliable a sketch of his face would be. And if this was a strong theory early on in and around Delphi considering an arrest has not been made, I think it was really unfortunate because it could’ve taken the focus off possible suspects who were local. I’m imagining a sort of collective sigh of relief...”whew, can’t be anybody I know”. JMO

 

[Charlot123]

What if he did not leave? Took some back road to the houses standing behind the S part of the bridge? For example? LE says, the person is a local, hiding in plain sight? Then why does he need to get to HH highway?

 

[Falling Down]

The spot where Abigail and Liberty were dropped off, was it right off C.R. 300? If it is the spot I'm thinking of, it is no longer available for parking.

Correct.

It was blocked off by a barrier which had been put up in the months after the murders, I saw it when I drove by.

Prior to that, a barrier some distance in from the road could be closed. The newer barrier prevents anyone from driving off the road a bit to park.

 

[Falling Down]

If someone was walking down the hwy and noted by somebody driving by at 60 miles an hour or whatever the speed limit is, I’d question how reliable a sketch of his face would be. And if this was a strong theory early on in and around Delphi considering an arrest has not been made, I think it was really unfortunate because it could’ve taken the focus off possible suspects who were local. I’m imagining a sort of collective sigh of relief...”whew, can’t be anybody I know”. JMO

I highly doubt anyone was seen, and I agree with your assessment.

Another thing I was able to dismiss is any notion that railroad activity in the area could be related. That is a real stretch, I clocked a train going south paralleling IN 25 at 63 mph. Someone would have had to have walked from the CS to Logansport on, maybe, the old interurban right-of-way by the current RR RoW, and could have been at the yard in that city by mid-evening.

Here's why I stand on BG and distances he traveled that afternoon: He was already willing to go out of his way to kill that afternoon, way beyond a typical killer. Meaning he walked some terrain and distances to pull off a set of crimes that are impressive, to say the least. It took effort and physical and mental exertion to pull it off, why put any major effort to get out of there?

Why not just drive away?

JMO

 

[somequestions]

In my opinion, the sad fact of the matter is that most people are invisible to the people around them. People's heads are buried in their phones, their own conversations with others, and they simply do not pay attention.

We do not know how Abigail Williams and Liberty German died, but a person may have been able to walk past with a small amount of blood on them or with wet pant legs and people may not have even noticed. The Monon High Bridge trail is a not a place that people associate with crime.

So the man on the bridge could have literally walked anywhere. I think sometimes the reason cases remain unsolved is because people put so much belief into eyewitness statements and follow that to the end.

Sometimes it makes me wonder if this killer has learned the art of perception. If you kill in a place that people think is mostly for locals, people will think it is a local.

In the Lyric Cook and Elizabeth Collins case, I saw the Seven Bridges area where the bodies were found in a youtube video from a reporter. The first thing I thought is that a dead end street with just small paths going through the area is not the place a truck driver would ever take his truck. But maybe that is the point. Sometimes we get fooled by our perceptions.

 

[StarryStarryNight]

I highly doubt anyone was seen, and I agree with your assessment.

Another thing I was able to dismiss is any notion that railroad activity in the area could be related. That is a real stretch, I clocked a train going south paralleling IN 25 at 63 mph. Someone would have had to have walked from the CS to Logansport on, maybe, the old interurban right-of-way by the current RR RoW, and could have been at the yard in that city by mid-evening.

Here's why I stand on BG and distances he traveled that afternoon: He was already willing to go out of his way to kill that afternoon, way beyond a typical killer. Meaning he walked some terrain and distances to pull off a set of crimes that are impressive, to say the least. It took effort and physical and mental exertion to pull it off, why put any major effort to get out of there?

Why not just drive away?

JMO

My thoughts too. Hoosier Heartland Hwy by all accounts is perfect for that....just driving away. By around the time the families call the police the killer is perhaps two hours away or more. Besides Indianapolis you’ve even got Chicago coming into play. At three hours out you can add Cincinnati and Louisville. The population just within that time frame presents a staggering amount of possible suspects.

 

[sunshineray]

If someone was walking down the hwy and noted by somebody driving by at 60 miles an hour or whatever the speed limit is, I’d question how reliable a sketch of his face would be. And if this was a strong theory early on in and around Delphi considering an arrest has not been made, I think it was really unfortunate because it could’ve taken the focus off possible suspects who were local. I’m imagining a sort of collective sigh of relief...”whew, can’t be anybody I know”. JMO

I think an outsider coming into the community was definitely what was thought at first. It would be a natural reaction in a small community like Delphi to think, why it couldn't be anyone amongst us. LE was reinforcing that thinking by asking about walkers or hitchers on the roads, mentioning someone headed towards Logansport carrying a duffel bag and then the billboards went up in many states.

All that and the permeating tone of betrayal at the April 2019 PC was so jarring, it probably felt like a blindside to Delphi's residents. AJMO

 

[Ozoner]

My thoughts too. Hoosier Heartland Hwy by all accounts is perfect for that....just driving away. By around the time the families call the police the killer is perhaps two hours away or more. Besides Indianapolis you’ve even got Chicago coming into play. At three hours out you can add Cincinnati and Louisville. The population just within that time frame presents a staggering amount of possible suspects.

I don't hear the southern twang in BG's voice that I would expect from a denizen of Cincinnati or Louisville, but a northern city like Gary, Chicago, or Battle Creek that was a couple of hours away would not surprise me at all.

 

[Ozoner]

In my opinion, the sad fact of the matter is that most people are invisible to the people around them. People's heads are buried in their phones, their own conversations with others, and they simply do not pay attention.

We do not know how Abigail Williams and Liberty German died, but a person may have been able to walk past with a small amount of blood on them or with wet pant legs and people may not have even noticed. The Monon High Bridge trail is a not a place that people associate with crime.

So the man on the bridge could have literally walked anywhere. I think sometimes the reason cases remain unsolved is because people put so much belief into eyewitness statements and follow that to the end.

Sometimes it makes me wonder if this killer has learned the art of perception. If you kill in a place that people think is mostly for locals, people will think it is a local.

In the Lyric Cook and Elizabeth Collins case, I saw the Seven Bridges area where the bodies were found in a youtube video from a reporter. The first thing I thought is that a dead end street with just small paths going through the area is not the place a truck driver would ever take his truck. But maybe that is the point. Sometimes we get fooled by our perceptions.

You make some good points.

I enjoy going on nature hikes and have hiked through many areas that most people would think would only be known to locals. In some cases, I stumbled onto such places, but in most cases, a local gave me a tip. I did most of my hiking and exploring in pre-internet days, but I imagine that a minimal amount of surfing the web would lead me to plenty of out-of-the-way spots if those were what I was looking for. Moreover, AAA used to give members whatever maps they wanted for free, including very detailed county maps—maybe they still do.

 

[Manwel]

In my opinion, the sad fact of the matter is that most people are invisible to the people around them. People's heads are buried in their phones, their own conversations with others, and they simply do not pay attention.

We do not know how Abigail Williams and Liberty German died, but a person may have been able to walk past with a small amount of blood on them or with wet pant legs and people may not have even noticed. The Monon High Bridge trail is a not a place that people associate with crime.

So the man on the bridge could have literally walked anywhere. I think sometimes the reason cases remain unsolved is because people put so much belief into eyewitness statements and follow that to the end.

Sometimes it makes me wonder if this killer has learned the art of perception. If you kill in a place that people think is mostly for locals, people will think it is a local.

In the Lyric Cook and Elizabeth Collins case, I saw the Seven Bridges area where the bodies were found in a youtube video from a reporter. The first thing I thought is that a dead end street with just small paths going through the area is not the place a truck driver would ever take his truck. But maybe that is the point. Sometimes we get fooled by our perceptions.

This. A lot of it makes me think of the sketches of Zodiac. Cops walked right on past him and he had to have had blood all on his front from the cab victim. Then you have a suspicious character from the Lake Berryessa area where different people supplied different ideas. None of it ever seemed to match. Different people had different memories of car colors. White, blue, grey, navy, etc. Too much information becomes no information. That may be why the information about their deaths is so important to keep quiet.

 

[Manwel]

I don't hear the southern twang in BG's voice that I would expect from a denizen of Cincinnati or Louisville, but a northern city like Gary, Chicago, or Battle Creek that was a couple of hours away would not surprise me at all.

This is a good point. No accent: Not Yooper, not twangy, not Chicago-y either. Solidly that Southern Michigan/northern Indiana or Ohio range.