Found Deceased IN - Abigail (Abby) Williams, 13, & Liberty (Libby) German, 14, The Delphi Murders 13 Feb 2017 #126

[Falling Down]

My opinion, a suspect possibly sighted on the highway led to the first sketch and the more or less national manhunt with FBI billboards everywhere. As that didn’t pan out, the focus changed to the second sketch of a suspect, somebody with local ties.

Feb 20, 2017
“We are asking people that were driving through the Hoosier heartland that might have seen a hitchhiker or saw somebody walking. We are asking people in Logansport all the way to Lafayette if they saw somebody around that late afternoon on February 13 walking down the roadway. We would like to know about that person,” said Indiana State Police Sgt. Kim Riley....”
All-out manhunt underway for main suspect in murders of two Delphi teens | Fox 59

Which kind of confuses me, especially considering the time of year, despite the fact it was the 2nd mild Winter we had in a row in northern IN. I just don't picture IN 25 being a road where drifters and hitch hikers hang out or are even allowed to. It's much like an interstate, and a hitch hiker would stick out like a sore thumb on that road.

IIRC, it's 65 mph through most of it, and it bypasses those little towns and hamlets from around Warsaw and Lafayette, so there are no truck stops or other places which would give any commercial or non-commercial drivers to stop along there, along the road. No rest stops, etc.

So even a commercial truck, pick up truck. or car stopped along there would stand out some, it's really not all that well-traveled of a road. It's a quick way to bypass those small towns between roughly where Warsaw is, and Lafayette/I-65. There is a lot of commercial truck activity for sure, however I'd imagine much of it is passing through. In and around Delphi there's IP, the gravel pit, and the grain complex, not too many other reasons large commercial trucks would be getting off of IN 25 at C.R. 300 or the exit for Delphi south of there.

JMO

 

[retrometro]

Manwel, thanks for clarifying!

I agree with you that AW and LG were most likely not at the bridge to meet someone. If they had, I think clues about that would have turned up on the recording. And though it's true that communication in certain apps can be hard to trace, I think LE has a pretty good idea of which apps they were using and what types of messages they were sending to other people. Just MOO.

 

[stattlich1]

I don't think the girls were at the bridge to meet someone that day. Nor do I think they were lured there. But I just can't shake the idea that the killer(s) knew they were going to be there.

 

[somequestions]

The question in this case for me has always been, "Where was the vehicle?"

People speculate the cemetery, but if that is the case then witnesses must not be that observant since police have never asked anyone for information regarding vehicles parked at the cemetery. I have not been to the Monon High Bridge, but from online videos it does not look like you can see the bridge from the cemetery.

This is one of the main reasons I think police are on the wrong track. I think if you find the vehicle you find the killer.

 

[sunshineray]

My opinion, a suspect possibly sighted on the highway led to the first sketch and the more or less national manhunt with FBI billboards everywhere. As that didn’t pan out, the focus changed to the second sketch of a suspect, somebody with local ties.

Feb 20, 2017
“We are asking people that were driving through the Hoosier heartland that might have seen a hitchhiker or saw somebody walking. We are asking people in Logansport all the way to Lafayette if they saw somebody around that late afternoon on February 13 walking down the roadway. We would like to know about that person,” said Indiana State Police Sgt. Kim Riley....”
All-out manhunt underway for main suspect in murders of two Delphi teens | Fox 59

I thought the person hitching was on the main highway heading toward Logansport and carrying a duffel bag? It's that who the ISP asked the public about?

 

[MistyWaters]

I thought the person hitching was on the main highway heading toward Logansport and carrying a duffel bag? It's that who the ISP asked the public about?

No idea as LE didn’t include a description but from Delphi, Lafayette is the opposite direction, the distance between the Lafayette to Logansport is 40 miles. I’ve always thought the notion of the suspect walking or hitchhiking away from Delphi after committing a vicious double murder was highly unusual and so it wouldn’t surprise me if there was a person somewhere on the highway that he was later identified and cleared.

“We are asking people in Logansport all the way to Lafayette if they saw somebody around that late afternoon on February 13 walking down the roadway.”

 

[Ozoner]

Very interesting!

Something else I’ve thought about, noticing how often genetic DNA testing and Parabon has been mentioned as a solution to also solving this case, much like it did by identifying the Golden State Killer. But his crimes occurred in the 70s and early 80s before DNA technology existed. The first successful prosecution using DNA in the US occurred in the late 80s.

So prior to the late 80s, it didn’t matter one iota to a sexual offender if he left a vast array of bodily fluids at a crime scene as he didn’t have the ability to foresee into the future. Blood type and fingerprints were about it. But surely sexual predators of today know all about DNA as it’s not a well-kept crime solving secret considering it’s a much talked about topic, on the news, TV shows, or published information.

I’d be certain the majority of today’s criminals do everything possible to avoid leaving their full DNA profile at a crime scene considering DNA used in criminal prosecutions has been happening for over 30 years. I could compare that to thieves and robbers figuring out it’s not a bad idea to cover their face because just maybe their actions are being captured by CCTV.....and how criminals change their ways if they think it’ll prevent their capture. JMO

This Scottish gangster, who died in 2010, shaved off all of his body hair before each murder in order to avoid leaving DNA.
Hood Kevin 'Gerbil' Carroll shaved body before shootings to avoid DNA traces
I'm sure he isn't the only one.

 

[Marzipan]

The question in this case for me has always been, "Where was the vehicle?"

People speculate the cemetery, but if that is the case then witnesses must not be that observant since police have never asked anyone for information regarding vehicles parked at the cemetery. I have not been to the Monon High Bridge, but from online videos it does not look like you can see the bridge from the cemetery.

This is one of the main reasons I think police are on the wrong track. I think if you find the vehicle you find the killer.

There are a couple of vehicles mentioned in the police scanner thread, as one of you once pointed out to me. It’s a good resource. If I understand the rules correctly, we can read/listen in the scanner thread but not discuss it. I also don’t remember exactly where those identified vehicles were found. And it would not imply guilt, as there could be many good reasons to have a vehicle nearby, including to genuinely help.

 

[Ravenmoon]

Sorry, I just came back to the thread today and noticed the post draft saved poorly. It appears to have cut off what I wrote instead of saving. That's why I have a weird typo there with "but." What a terrible spot for a mistake!!!! Especially as I took issue with that other person's comments! What I had said about AW that was cut off was "AW was for sure not there yet given her age and background." Meaning from what I've read of her backstory was still very reserved with people she didn't know and struck me as more childlike than LG, who seems from descriptions to be the more go-getter between the two, the one to make the plans. AW seems more like the one who followed. But honestly, I really think it's a lot of unnecessary speculation that they would have been there to meet up with someone, especially those who think they were trying to meet a stranger.

All this discussion about "spiffing" just seems completely left field and not based on anything. I'm more inclined to believe they came upon someone who was just waiting for the right opportunity. My reasoning is that if they had been planning to meet someone, and then got bad feelings about the situation and started filming him, why didn't they just text or call someone to say "Someone is here and scaring us"? If they weren't planning to find someone there that day at all, I get why they would choose this low-key filming approach of a stranger with the hope that they were just passing by.

These things make me think of David Fincher's Girl With the Dragon Tattoo remake where a great exchange at the end occurs between Stellan Skarsgard and Daniel Craig. SPOILER Skarsgard is the killer and he invites Craig inside his home even though Craig has figured out that Skarsgard is most likely the killer. But there's this need to be polite, to play along and pretend everything is fine that gets in the way of Craig just booking it out of there. And the killer points this out to Craig after he's captured him, he says he chose being polite over self-preservation, and that's how he's successful as a killer, because people are more afraid of showing bad manners than they are afraid of being hurt.

So in that regard, I wonder how much their fear of looking or being unnecessarily hysterical meant they tried to "stay cool" and then it was too late when he got too close? Because again, why didn't they text or call someone? Both had phones with them from what I've read.

Thank you so much for that clarification.
I agree with so many things you have stated.
I honestly believe these were 2 kids, trying to fill an afternoon with something to do.
And going to the bridge was a familiar place to take photos and get fresh air.
I also agree that the murder was opportunity and not because of a prearranged meeting.

 

[Ravenmoon]

The question in this case for me has always been, "Where was the vehicle?"

People speculate the cemetery, but if that is the case then witnesses must not be that observant since police have never asked anyone for information regarding vehicles parked at the cemetery. I have not been to the Monon High Bridge, but from online videos it does not look like you can see the bridge from the cemetery.

This is one of the main reasons I think police are on the wrong track. I think if you find the vehicle you find the killer.

IMO , the vehicle was either on the highway or at the old DFS building.

MOO

 

[Ravenmoon]

This Scottish gangster, who died in 2010, shaved off all of his body hair before each murder in order to avoid leaving DNA.
Hood Kevin 'Gerbil' Carroll shaved body before shootings to avoid DNA traces
I'm sure he isn't the only one.

The man who kidnapped Jayme Kloss and killed her parents did this.

MOO

 

[JnRyan]

I thought the person hitching was on the main highway heading toward Logansport and carrying a duffel bag? It's that who the ISP asked the public about?

I don't remember where I read about a duffel bag, but here is something on a hitchhiker. It came out from ISP very early on and then wasn't mentioned again.
One week later, no arrests in Delphi killings

"We've just expanded our search to anybody who saw anything," Indiana State Police Kim Riley said, explaining that it might not have seemed suspicious at the time.
More specifically, police want to know if anyone recalls a hitchhiker along the Hoosier Heartland Highway, a person walking along a county road or highway, Riley said.

"We don't know if the person's a local or a drifter who came in and left," Riley said, as he explained what they were looking for as they look to nearby communities for tips.

 

[Monger]

This Scottish gangster, who died in 2010, shaved off all of his body hair before each murder in order to avoid leaving DNA.
Hood Kevin 'Gerbil' Carroll shaved body before shootings to avoid DNA traces
I'm sure he isn't the only one.

Jayme Closs kidnapper did the same thing. He spotted her at a bus stop, followed her home, waited for an opportunity and murdered her parents. Then abducted her and held her captive for some time until she finally escaped.

 

[sunshineray]

This Scottish gangster, who died in 2010, shaved off all of his body hair before each murder in order to avoid leaving DNA.
Hood Kevin 'Gerbil' Carroll shaved body before shootings to avoid DNA traces
I'm sure he isn't the only one.

You know I never though of that before.

Now this next thing I'm going to say please don't take the wrong way, like I'm saying I think the Delphi killer is LE, I don't

Where I live, in the large city nearby, there are MANY cops who are bald and regularly remove their all body hair with depilatory. I know personally that a few of those do it so hair testing for drugs is impossible. I'm sure the toral number is more than a few.

I wonder what other occupations might favor doing that?

 

[Monger]

IMO , the vehicle was either on the highway or at the old DFS building.

MOO

I just saw you said “Jayme Closs” too!! I have a question, and I apologize this has probably been discussed at length before. I just can’t remember. The vehicle the police were looking for at the old DFS building. Did anything come of that? Sorry to make anyone rehash. Thanks in advance.

 

[Ravenmoon]

I just saw you said “Jayme Closs” too!! I have a question, and I apologize this has probably been discussed at length before. I just can’t remember. The vehicle the police were looking for at the old DFS building. Did anything come of that? Sorry to make anyone rehash. Thanks in advance.

They mentioned it in the last big press release April 2019.
Then.............the subject just seems to have disappeared.
There had to be a reason that it was mentioned.

AMOO

 

[Manwel]

Thank you so much for that clarification.
I agree with so many things you have stated.
I honestly believe these were 2 kids, trying to fill an afternoon with something to do.
And going to the bridge was a familiar place to take photos and get fresh air.
I also agree that the murder was opportunity and not because of a prearranged meeting.

Yes, absolutely that. They were just wanting to go out and wander. Especially if it was a bit nice out and they had an uncommon Monday off from school. The only other angle for wanting to go specifically there is geocaching, Pokemon Go, or Ingress, which is still, to me, two girls who like exploring their town.

And that actually brings up an idea. If that bridge had any connection with Ingress or Pokemon Go, I could see the killer discovering that it brings kids to that spot. Does anyone know about that trail's connection with those games?

 

[retrometro]

They mentioned it in the last big press release April 2019.
Then.............the subject just seems to have disappeared.
There had to be a reason that it was mentioned.

Just speculating, but it's possible that someone came forward with information that either (a) led to the vehicle no longer being a promising investigative lead, or that (b) circumstantially confirmed something else that LE isn't telling us about but that doesn't give them enough probable cause for an arrest.

 

[Monger]

Just speculating, but it's possible that someone came forward with information that either (a) led to the vehicle no longer being a promising investigative lead, or that (b) circumstantially confirmed something else that LE isn't telling us about but that doesn't give them enough probable cause for an arrest.

Or (c) they still don’t know anything about the vehicle they were seeking information for. If (a), I would think they would have made an announcement calling off the dogs. I mean they are keeping enough information hush hush to protect the integrity of the case without having to add the vehicle. On the other hand...maybe they don’t want to tip anyone off? No clue!

 

[Awsi Dooger]

Which kind of confuses me, especially considering the time of year, despite the fact it was the 2nd mild Winter we had in a row in northern IN. I just don't picture IN 25 being a road where drifters and hitch hikers hang out or are even allowed to. It's much like an interstate, and a hitch hiker would stick out like a sore thumb on that road.

IIRC, it's 65 mph through most of it, and it bypasses those little towns and hamlets from around Warsaw and Lafayette, so there are no truck stops or other places which would give any commercial or non-commercial drivers to stop along there, along the road. No rest stops, etc.

So even a commercial truck, pick up truck. or car stopped along there would stand out some, it's really not all that well-traveled of a road. It's a quick way to bypass those small towns between roughly where Warsaw is, and Lafayette/I-65. There is a lot of commercial truck activity for sure, however I'd imagine much of it is passing through. In and around Delphi there's IP, the gravel pit, and the grain complex, not too many other reasons large commercial trucks would be getting off of IN 25 at C.R. 300 or the exit for Delphi south of there.

JMO

I agree with your entire summary. I was mesmerized by that road because it was nothing like I expected. I had heard the hitchhiker story so I assumed it was a local commuter road with occasional stops and convenience stores, etc. We have many roads like that here in Florida, where near-freeway speed is available but often you've got to come to a complete halt.

State Road 25 shares zero similarities. It is free flowing wide open spaces with huge gaps between vehicles and no reason to stop. How many hitchhikers are there in a calendar year between Lafayette and Logansport? Again, give me the under.

Hitchhiking and truckers sound a lot more feasible from afar than if you know the area or have visited.

State Road 25 in that area is basically a very thoughtful well designed road to connect several smaller communities to Lafayette in half the time or less than it previously required. The road dips around Delphi and several other small towns, staying just far enough outside city proper not to disturb anything, while also enabling locals to jump on that road toward the bigger city.