Found Deceased IN - Abigail (Abby) Williams, 13, & Liberty (Libby) German, 14, The Delphi Murders 13 Feb 2017 #132

Discussion in 'Located Persons Discussion' started by Tricia, Apr 22, 2019.

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  1. MistyWaters

    MistyWaters Well-Known Member

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    LE have mentioned a couple times they canvassed seeking CCTV, nothing specific. But as it’s now been over 4 years, I’d guess available CCTV obtained from anywhere hasn’t proven to be the smoking gun. In rural areas it’s often common for neighbours to keep an eye out for unusual activity when other property owners are away rather than utilizing alarm systems.

    Murder 101 for LE routinely is first investigating family members, then people with known associations to the scene of the crime. So considering the resources devoted to this investigation I’d be really surprised if every possible connection to nearby neighbouring properties hasn’t been thoroughly investigated.

    Although it took over two years for LE to place media emphasis on someone with knowledge of the Delphi area, for all we know LE didn’t take their eye off a likely close connection ever since day one.
     


  2. photographer4

    photographer4 Well-Known Member

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    I'd believe that.
     
  3. TL4S

    TL4S Well-Known Member

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    My thought was mainly that if the killer was familiar with that house, he'd know whether it had security or not.
     
  4. photographer4

    photographer4 Well-Known Member

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    And that was my point. They all thought they were looking for two kids who were lost and possibly hurt in the dark that night. They didn't know they were about to find two bodies, and a murderer was on the loose. To me, that house right off the end of that bridge, on the south side would have probably provided a lot of places where he could easily have hidden. There IS an outbuilding (per google earth). If he did that though, surely he had a car nearby (perhaps on that private driveway or nearby it?). It wouldn't have been super hard to drive away down that long road... bet no one would have even noticed him.
     
  5. photographer4

    photographer4 Well-Known Member

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    Possibly? If they obtained permission discretely, they could have shown up as repair men or delivery guys... all in plain clothes and no one would have been the wiser, or likely even suspect a thing. Would they go to that length? I bet they would if the property owners asked them to do so, or perhaps if a lawyer were involved for the property owners, s/he may have made that a stipulation of a discrete search. Who knows.
     
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  6. MistyWaters

    MistyWaters Well-Known Member

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    I too have always wondered if that road/driveway had an equal or greater probability of involvement than the cemetery. If the initial plan involved an abduction of potential victims, a vehicle could’ve been parked right there. While we know the murders happened where the bodies were found so they weren’t taken to a shack or outbuilding.....but it’s not as if kidnapping by force into a vehicle, victims intended to be taken somewhere else is unheard of.

    It’s widely known potential abduction victims stand a far greater chance of surviving if they fight back, rather than allowing themselves to be taken by a vehicle to a secondary location. I’d think most teens are well aware of that.

    I’m not suggesting the killer stated “go down the hill and get in my car”. Initially the girls were likely surprised at his approach, maybe confused at what was going on before they fully realized what was happening, then comes fear and fright, speculation only as we don’t know the sequence of events.
     
    Last edited: Apr 12, 2021
  7. Justice101

    Justice101 Well-Known Member

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    following again..
     
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  8. :+:MrTT:+:

    :+:MrTT:+: Cold Case Files

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    Being 2017. Monday the 13th. The day before a pagan holiday. Lupercalia
    (A not so common day to kill) The Killer knew about DNA. And its been 4 years. Even with video and audio, massive LEOs involvement from city to state to federal here we are. If i had to guess, ;and its just a guess, nothing based on fact, all assumptions and speculations. If not drowned in the water, i would say at least rinsed in the water to eliminate any possible DNA the killer could have left. I believe if they found any DNA of the killer it would had been on file. At this point in time after 4 years they are waiting for that one phone call from the killer to say i did it, and here is how i did it.

    From.....guys; down the hill, to where they were found is a short distance. They were killed quickly and the guy went up and to the cemetery where i suspect, but not certain, just speculation that is where his vehicle was park. On that back row.

    I speculated this was a meet up that went wrong. If that is not the case I would say outside; the box, and this is totally outside the box thinking, nothing for certain, all assumption, speculation, a theory on the killers chosen plan.

    If a LEO was here taking questions, I would ask if any of the persons they interview if any of them had a
    drone. Perhaps the killer flew a drone; over the area to survey the area to look for possible victim/victims or possible witnesses.

    But, then again. There is that chance he never even touched the girls to leave any DNA. If there was only a girl, i think he would have kidnapped them from the area, but being two. He killed both. But why cross the water before killing, why not as soon after.....down the hill.

    THE ABOVE ALL MOO AND SPECULATION. NOTING BEING POSTED AS FACT UNLESS OTHERWISE KNOWN TO BE.
     
    Last edited: Apr 12, 2021
  9. sunshineray

    sunshineray Well-Known Member

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    Just to note...The Christian feast day honoring St. Valentine's martyrdom is Feb. 14th. The pagan feast day for Lupercalia that was held every year in Rome, according to that link you shared, is on Feb. 15th.
     
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  10. Boxer

    Boxer Well-Known Member

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    True, it could be insider knowledge, or the signs of not being there picked up at the time.
     
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  11. Charlot123

    Charlot123 Well-Known Member

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    Unless he is somehow disabled? Not my version of the events, but another version of “a minor”
     
  12. OverTheRhine

    OverTheRhine Well-Known Member

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    So ID just televised the People Magazine Investigates on the Delphi Murders. ISP confirmed sketch #1 has not been eliminated and people should be looking at both sketches in combination with the audio and video. Carter also came out and said the missing piece is someone that knows who BG is and tipping him in. There were footprints that lead to the direction of the girls bodies, but it was kinda vague. There were a few other interesting things mentioned about suspects and how they investigated a certain unnamed man in the area with a violent history . I thought it was well done. When Carter talked adamantly about not releasing details of the CS or CoD I got a strong feeling that they're doing this to strip power from BG. I think BG may have wanted some notoriety or things known to the public and LE knows this.
     
  13. Peppery

    Peppery Well-Known Member

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    Wow, that’s some good info! I can’t wait to watch that one
     
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  14. Boxer

    Boxer Well-Known Member

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    Therebis a cluster of home on the corner of 252 and 625 where the drive begins. I am pretty sure the people in those homess would not want unknown cars driving to the bridge on their side. I think they woukd notice.
    Good. If BG wants to see details of crime in media, it will have to be at his trial.
     
  15. Ursamajr

    Ursamajr Well-Known Member

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    This possibility has floated in and out of my mind for a while as well. If this was the case, I think there is a higher chance BG is from the area and he knew school was out for the day. The bridge was (is?) a popular spot for kids to hang out and he knew he had a good chance to find a target/targets.
     
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  16. UnapologeticallyAspie

    UnapologeticallyAspie Well-Known Member

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    I have thought about this, BBM, statement you made a lot.
    Is it only serial killers who like to revisit the scenes of their murders/victims, or does this pattern also occur with other types of murderers?
    Since I found out about the outhouse, some months ago, I have had a hard time trying to figure out the reasons why BG would spend so much time setting up the CS, putting in so much effort to make it as perfect as he could, just to quickly leave and never return. Unless he took video or pictures to reminisce on. But that’s one of the many missing pieces that we as the general public don’t know about, and can only speculate about and share our thoughts/ideas with one another. Heck I’m not even sure if LE has been able to figure this out either. Especially when they’ve shared many many times that they have consulted with many other various agencies throughout the years.
    IIRC, LE has stated that they understand the beginning, and the end of this case, but not the middle. I personally feel that when they have said that, they are missing only piece to, or rather the one piece that they are missing is the unknown key (the middle) and once they ascertain what it is, then they’ll be about to solve the case. It’s been four years, and yet there seems to be no clear headway/progress they have made figuring out what the missing link is. Because imho if they have figured this one piece they are missing, then an arrest would have been made.
    All of this has been quite a conundrum, rolling around in my head.
    mO0
     
  17. everybodhi

    everybodhi Well-Known Member

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    BG’s DNA may not have been in the Codis database but I still hope DNA will break this case eventually.
    They collected DNA from many men in Delphi after the murders, some locals say every man in town, they must have DNA to match.
    JMO

    Investigators from Delphi collected DNA from rapist/kidnapper, Paul Etter, after he died in a shoot out with cops in 2019.
    Delphi murder investigators request dead rape suspect's DNA

    Indiana recently changed their law to collect DNA from anyone charged with a felony, before they only collected if there was a conviction.
    At the time IN enacted this law Jan 2018, 31 states submitted felon’s DNA, now all 50 do.
    This will vastly expand Codis criminal database.
    Delphi homicides: Could broader DNA database help catch teens' killer?

    Indiana has also been slow to allow crime scene DNA to be traced through familial DNA but it has been done in at least one case I know about.
    Parabon runs DNA data through GEDmatch, which famously identified the Golden State Killer and has solved many cases since.
    It was used in 2015 in Indiana to identify the killer in the 1988 murder of April Tinsley, the crime scene DNA was 27 years old.
    It’s a slow process though, it took over 3 years in this case.
    'This is just the beginning': Using DNA and genealogy to crack years-old cold cases
     
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  18. :+:MrTT:+:

    :+:MrTT:+: Cold Case Files

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    Guys down the hill............He knew where he wanted to go to do things. Down the hill, through the water, and too the other side. I still say he left going up to the cemetery.

    If a LEO was here, I would ask if they checked local rental agencies, if anyone had rented a vehicle the day of or the night before the murders. If this killer was as careful as he has appeared to be i would say he might have of rented a vehicle just for a killing. Not wanting to use his own vehicle, or a friends family vehicle etc. He planned this very well, But had not one particular victims in mind other than female.

    If there was only a female on the bridge i think the chances would have been good he would have left with her. down the hill, through the water up and out through the cemetery if it had been one female there, not two.

    THE ABOVE ALL MOO AND SPECULATIONS. NOTHING POSTED AS BEING FACT UNLESS OTHERWISE KNOWN TO BE. ALL ASSUJMPTIONS.
     
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  19. sunshineray

    sunshineray Well-Known Member

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    At thd very end of the ID channel's People Magazine: The Delphi Killer (which my cable provider's description says released in 2016, so don't know exactly when this show was actually released) ISP Carter is on camera saying...

    "Somebody knows who this person is...somebody knows, that voice, somebody knows that voice, somebody knows the gait in the walk.

    And its probably somebody living in excruciating fear, for their own safety.

    Eventually somebody's gonna to tell me that was my dad, or that was my brother, or that was my husband or that was my coworker.

    And that's the only missing piece...the only missing piece."

    ISP Carter stressed that last sentence a lot with voice emphasis and hand gesture.

    It was said after KG talks about her and her uncle almost running across the bridge to get to where Libby had taken that picture of Abby and then after looking around under the bridge, someone called to her about finding a shoe... Show reporter then says, "At round 12:45 in the afternoon, one of the firefighter picks up a set of footprints and follows them to a location about half a mile east of the Monon High Bridge. Moments later his voice is heard over police walkie-talkies."
     
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  20. news buff

    news buff Well-Known Member

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    Former prosecutor in unsolved Delphi murders of two teens says they had signature elements | Daily Mail Online

    This article quoted Ives but also brought up staging. Remembered reading it and thought Ives was talking about staging too.
     
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