Found Deceased IN - Abigail (Abby) Williams, 13, & Liberty (Libby) German, 14, The Delphi Murders 13 Feb 2017 #148

[Charlot123]

From the MS episode: An Eleven-Hundred Foot View
I wonder if Carter was OK with someone close to him discussing this with podcasters. Why didn't they just ask him? Why use a "source"?

At the 9:30mm in the episode, they say:
A well-connected source in law enforcement with access to the superintendent told us that one of the topics discussed was Carter's view was that it's crucial that the Kegan Kline case go to trial and not be pled out. While the plea bargain process is a crucial part of the justice system, Carter seems to believe that it is important that Kegan Kline's case actually go to trial. There may be a strategic reason for this which carter believes could assist the Delphi investigators. Carter even offered to connect Miami co. with a prosecutor from another county to provide more legal manpower.

Do you remember another “well-connected” source, who once blew the Internet, LK? An absolutely mad story, if you ask me, yet people fell for it.

Members of religious communities might look up to ministers, but non-church-goers probably don't, IMO. Delphi appears to be more church-oriented than most communities, so I suspect that the ministers are respected there.

I'm not convinced that BG is a respected member of the community, so the discussion is probably moot. TK is the best candidate for BG, in my opinion, and he doesn't seem to be particularly well respected.

If TK isn't BG, than I don't think BG has been named by the media.

definitely not by the media, JMO.

 

[IQuestion]

Exactly. If KK were to incriminate anyone else, how could he possibly be believed? They need proof. Seems to me that the news of KK’s recent negotiations coupled with news of the river search (courtesy of the tip to the podcast) could be an attempt to flush out the bad actor(s). None of us knows what LE knows, so it’s anybody’s guess as to what the best strategy is. When I read about the LE strategy in the Kristin Smart case this week, it made total sense to me why LE would tip off the podcast and then wire tap the phones of the Flores family. And sure enough, the family was recorded talking about the need to poke holes in the podcast. Just wondering if that’s what’s going on in the Delphi case, as well, that’s all. Jmho

BATGIRL 2.0 BBM above, Thank you for bringing up the Kristin Smart case. His father helped him cover up the murder, right? For anyone following the Dan Markel case, the A family matriarch was contacted by undercover LE (to flush out info/kick the hornet's nest) and then LE recorded the phone calls via wiretap. I don't think anyone involved in this case will share information via electronic/internet/or cellular devices anymore. Probably arranging meetings at local casual dining hubs. Maybe even passing messages via take out and delivery, IYKWIM.

 

[Batgirl 2.0]

BATGIRL 2.0 BBM above, Thank you for bringing up the Kristin Smart case. His father helped him cover up the murder, right? For anyone following the Dan Markel case, the A family matriarch was contacted by undercover LE (to flush out info/kick the hornet's nest) and then LE recorded the phone calls via wiretap. I don't think anyone involved in this case will share information via electronic/internet/or cellular devices anymore. Probably arranging meetings at local casual dining hubs. Maybe even passing messages via take out and delivery, IYKWIM.

His father is being tried for that, so it’s not proven yet. But that’s the allegation. I’m not familiar with the Markel case. It makes sense that once you know you’re being wiretapped that you would take measures to evade. In the Kristin Smart case, it was revealed this week that detectives took measures in advance of the search warrant like following, placing cameras across from the residence etc. Sorry I don’t know how to link, but the testimony has been in the mainstream news this past week. Just trying to find parallels in techniques in hopes that LE is on the right path to solving this case.

 

[sandy_80]

i wonder if KAK really was told by le that bg is either him or his dad
I thought ALL LE wanted was to avoid a fake confession.! . and then they go and put themselves in the hands of a master manipulator ?
well
contradictions much

 

[MistyWaters]

i wonder if KAK really was told by le that bg is either him or his dad
I thought ALL LE wanted was to avoid a fake confession.! . and then they go and put themselves in the hands of a master manipulator ?
well
contradictions much

Whether the interrogator really believed that or not, it wouldn’t surprise me if that same allegation isn’t expressed by LE toward every single suspect who’s questioned simply to gauge their reaction so I believe that the accusation was expressed is probably true.

Fake confessions are easily weeded out by hold-back information that only the killer at the scene of the crime would be privy too. JMO

 

[Snow_In _June]

Back to the beginning

I know I will not be popular and I in no way question the goodwill, integratory or abilities of a well-known True Crime Personality.

If you think I am questioning the skills of the above personality or his motives this is not the post for you. I simply am not.

However, when revisiting the beginning of this case I have to ask myself how I knew about the potential flow of the crime.

At no point to my knowledge has any LE officer publicly confirmed the flow of the crime presented by various YouTube personalities to be correct.

In fact, quite the opposite I just can't remember which LE officer it was or which news report but there was one that advised no one had got it right publically.

I personally have followed blindly the narrative of the girls crossing the bridge, Libby taking video and the suspect coming towards them and then the suspect forcing them down the hill and across the creek.

We the general public have no idea what happened after the 43-second video, nor do we know when or where the words” Down the hill” which later became “Guys down the hill” were recorded or even which hill they were directed down.

• In fact, for all, we know Libby reached the SE end of the bridge before Abby and was recording Abby crossing the bridge for the first time. (Kids will be Kids) The recording naively caught BG in the background.
  • Only 1 ½ seconds of the video was shown to the public because the rest had Abby in it.
• The girls waited politely for BG to cross the bridge and get to the SE end before they made their way back to the NW end of the bridge.

I have to consider the abduction took place on the NW end of the bridge and the girls were forced to go on the path via the Deer Stand towards Ronald Logan's property which is eventually where they were found.

I think the suspect/s possible escape route was via the cemetery.

It has taken 5 ½ years for me to stop following the mantra and start to consider something different.

I think the whole thing was planned and coordinated from beginning to end

Sorry for my alternative thoughts and no offence meant to the Youtube Personality ultimately you plotted where the girls were and where the video was taken from like us you do not know what happened after the video.

Be kind to each other
May Today Be The Day
Snow In June

 

[FrostedGlass]

Good post, @Snow_In _June

Your point here is one that has always stuck with me. All the reenactments are pretty basic so there's not too many things to get wrong, IMO.

In fact, quite the opposite I just can't remember which LE officer it was or which news report but there was one that advised no one had got it right publically.

 

[TL4S]

Back to the beginning

I know I will not be popular and I in no way question the goodwill, integratory or abilities of a well-known True Crime Personality.

If you think I am questioning the skills of the above personality or his motives this is not the post for you. I simply am not.

However, when revisiting the beginning of this case I have to ask myself how I knew about the potential flow of the crime.

At no point to my knowledge has any LE officer publicly confirmed the flow of the crime presented by various YouTube personalities to be correct.

In fact, quite the opposite I just can't remember which LE officer it was or which news report but there was one that advised no one had got it right publically.

I personally have followed blindly the narrative of the girls crossing the bridge, Libby taking video and the suspect coming towards them and then the suspect forcing them down the hill and across the creek.

We the general public have no idea what happened after the 43-second video, nor do we know when or where the words” Down the hill” which later became “Guys down the hill” were recorded or even which hill they were directed down.

• In fact, for all, we know Libby reached the SE end of the bridge before Abby and was recording Abby crossing the bridge for the first time. (Kids will be Kids) The recording naively caught BG in the background.
  • Only 1 ½ seconds of the video was shown to the public because the rest had Abby in it.
• The girls waited politely for BG to cross the bridge and get to the SE end before they made their way back to the NW end of the bridge.

I have to consider the abduction took place on the NW end of the bridge and the girls were forced to go on the path via the Deer Stand towards Ronald Logan's property which is eventually where they were found.

I think the suspect/s possible escape route was via the cemetery.

It has taken 5 ½ years for me to stop following the mantra and start to consider something different.

I think the whole thing was planned and coordinated from beginning to end

Sorry for my alternative thoughts and no offence meant to the Youtube Personality ultimately you plotted where the girls were and where the video was taken from like us you do not know what happened after the video.

Be kind to each other
May Today Be The Day
Snow In June

I believe Holeman said that about the reenactments being wrong. However, DC has stated that "DTH" was the hill right by the south side of the bridge. It was during an interview at that end of the bridge, iirc.

 

[IQuestion]

Back to the beginning

I know I will not be popular and I in no way question the goodwill, integratory or abilities of a well-known True Crime Personality.

If you think I am questioning the skills of the above personality or his motives this is not the post for you. I simply am not.

However, when revisiting the beginning of this case I have to ask myself how I knew about the potential flow of the crime.

At no point to my knowledge has any LE officer publicly confirmed the flow of the crime presented by various YouTube personalities to be correct.

In fact, quite the opposite I just can't remember which LE officer it was or which news report but there was one that advised no one had got it right publically.

I personally have followed blindly the narrative of the girls crossing the bridge, Libby taking video and the suspect coming towards them and then the suspect forcing them down the hill and across the creek.

We the general public have no idea what happened after the 43-second video, nor do we know when or where the words” Down the hill” which later became “Guys down the hill” were recorded or even which hill they were directed down.

• In fact, for all, we know Libby reached the SE end of the bridge before Abby and was recording Abby crossing the bridge for the first time. (Kids will be Kids) The recording naively caught BG in the background.
  • Only 1 ½ seconds of the video was shown to the public because the rest had Abby in it.
• The girls waited politely for BG to cross the bridge and get to the SE end before they made their way back to the NW end of the bridge.

I have to consider the abduction took place on the NW end of the bridge and the girls were forced to go on the path via the Deer Stand towards Ronald Logan's property which is eventually where they were found.

I think the suspect/s possible escape route was via the cemetery.

It has taken 5 ½ years for me to stop following the mantra and start to consider something different.

I think the whole thing was planned and coordinated from beginning to end

Sorry for my alternative thoughts and no offence meant to the Youtube Personality ultimately you plotted where the girls were and where the video was taken from like us you do not know what happened after the video.

Be kind to each other
May Today Be The Day
Snow In June

Snow in June (July, August & September and all year long, I hope!) Thank you for keeping an open mind to all possibilities. I hadn't thought about the escape route for a long time. Hmmm, a parked car near/in a cemetery would be less likely to attract LE's attention. But, a car parked for 5 hours, next to an abandoned building, might imply vandalism or break in to me. (If I was LE cruising the area.) Maybe it is just me, but I think a car sitting unoccuppied in the middle of nowhere is a lot more suspicious than one in a frequented location. I hadn't thought about the escape route for a long time. ....something about a truck battery/unable to start in the cemetary and parents coming to retrieve it the next day? (Thud....now I wish I hadn't typed the last line.ugh.)
I want all sleuths to have a safe holiday and hug your family!

 

[Yemelyan]

Back to the beginning

I know I will not be popular and I in no way question the goodwill, integratory or abilities of a well-known True Crime Personality.

If you think I am questioning the skills of the above personality or his motives this is not the post for you. I simply am not.

However, when revisiting the beginning of this case I have to ask myself how I knew about the potential flow of the crime.

At no point to my knowledge has any LE officer publicly confirmed the flow of the crime presented by various YouTube personalities to be correct.

In fact, quite the opposite I just can't remember which LE officer it was or which news report but there was one that advised no one had got it right publically.

I personally have followed blindly the narrative of the girls crossing the bridge, Libby taking video and the suspect coming towards them and then the suspect forcing them down the hill and across the creek.

We the general public have no idea what happened after the 43-second video, nor do we know when or where the words” Down the hill” which later became “Guys down the hill” were recorded or even which hill they were directed down.

• In fact, for all, we know Libby reached the SE end of the bridge before Abby and was recording Abby crossing the bridge for the first time. (Kids will be Kids) The recording naively caught BG in the background.
  • Only 1 ½ seconds of the video was shown to the public because the rest had Abby in it.
• The girls waited politely for BG to cross the bridge and get to the SE end before they made their way back to the NW end of the bridge.

I have to consider the abduction took place on the NW end of the bridge and the girls were forced to go on the path via the Deer Stand towards Ronald Logan's property which is eventually where they were found.

I think the suspect/s possible escape route was via the cemetery.

It has taken 5 ½ years for me to stop following the mantra and start to consider something different.

I think the whole thing was planned and coordinated from beginning to end

Sorry for my alternative thoughts and no offence meant to the Youtube Personality ultimately you plotted where the girls were and where the video was taken from like us you do not know what happened after the video.

Be kind to each other
May Today Be The Day
Snow In June

Good post, @Snow_In _June. I agree we should question what we believe to be true and we should not blindly follow narratives, especially those that are different from - or built on speculation about - information provided by LE.

Having said that, LE have told us where they believe "down the hill" was said (I, too, am curious how they determined it):

Q. Describe the area where you believe “down the hill” was said?

A. South end of the High Bridge.

Source: County Sheriff answers double homicide questions from readers - Carroll County Comet

 

[NeverPersonal]

His words: "I was advised by my lawyer to not answer any questions from anyone."

my opinion is he wants money for commissary so he can keep eating his precious junk food while in prison. can't do drugs or acquire CSAM there so he needs to fuel his other addiction as much as he can.

 

[Snow_In _June]

Snow in June (July, August & September and all year long, I hope!) Thank you for keeping an open mind to all possibilities. I hadn't thought about the escape route for a long time. Hmmm, a parked car near/in a cemetery would be less likely to attract LE's attention. But, a car parked for 5 hours, next to an abandoned building, might imply vandalism or break in to me. (If I was LE cruising the area.) Maybe it is just me, but I think a car sitting unoccuppied in the middle of nowhere is a lot more suspicious than one in a frequented location. I hadn't thought about the escape route for a long time. ....something about a truck battery/unable to start in the cemetary and parents coming to retrieve it the next day? (Thud....now I wish I hadn't typed the last line.ugh.)
I want all sleuths to have a safe holiday and hug your family!

TBH LE didn't appear to have the resources to investigate, They are a rural community and on the back foot, I doubt they even realized there may have been a car parked there until someone paid and sent a satellite picture. As far as I am concerned Carroll County LE Indiana was/is ill-equipped with reference to the tools to help do the job.
They didn't appear to have body cams or drones at the time net alone dogs.

Edited to add a link

Atlas of Surveillance - Atlas of Surveillance

 

[FrostedGlass]

my opinion is he wants money for commissary so he can keep eating his precious junk food while in prison. can't do drugs or acquire CSAM there so he needs to fuel his other addiction as much as he can.

No doubt. If I was locked up for even a week, I'd be craving junk food.

 

[NoSpoonFeeding]

They didn't appear to have body cams or drones at the time net alone dogs.

I have no idea of their methods of research but from their website: Atlas of Surveillance-complied from information obtained from "students and volunteers".

Carroll County has 1 canine unit,
In my opinion, Indiana State Patrol, they have impressive drones, is more than capable of handling this investigation. They do haveThe FBI also assisted and was on the scene the day the victims were found. I don't know what other resources could have been needed for this investigation.
Edit to add, Carroll County Sheriff's Dept, not the county itself
Edit to add the correct Carroll County

 

[Snow_In _June]

I have no idea of their methods of research but from their website: Atlas of Surveillance-complied from information obtained from "students and volunteers".

Carroll County has 5 canine units, a forensics unit, and a crash reconstruction unit, which means they have drones.
In my opinion, Indiana State Patrol, they have impressive drones, is more than capable of handling this investigation. The FBI also assisted and was on the scene the day the victims were found. I don't know what other resources could have been needed for this investigation.

Many thanks for the info, can you please point me to where this is documented,

Cheers
SIJ

 

[NoSpoonFeeding]

Many thanks for the info, can you please point me to where this is documented,

Cheers
SIJ

Every LE agency has a website or is on its governing body's website.

Opps, sorry I got the wrong one, I searched for Indiana but there were so many Carroll Counties. But they do have a K9.

K-9

Carroll County has one K-9 working for our department. We are currently taking donations to try to get another one. If you would ...

www.cacoshrf.com

State Patrol

Home

www.in.gov

 

[carbuff]

Snow in June (July, August & September and all year long, I hope!) Thank you for keeping an open mind to all possibilities. I hadn't thought about the escape route for a long time. Hmmm, a parked car near/in a cemetery would be less likely to attract LE's attention. But, a car parked for 5 hours, next to an abandoned building, might imply vandalism or break in to me. (If I was LE cruising the area.) Maybe it is just me, but I think a car sitting unoccuppied in the middle of nowhere is a lot more suspicious than one in a frequented location. I hadn't thought about the escape route for a long time. ....something about a truck battery/unable to start in the cemetary and parents coming to retrieve it the next day? (Thud....now I wish I hadn't typed the last line.ugh.)
I want all sleuths to have a safe holiday and hug your family!

The abandoned building beside the major highway looks to me like the kind of place that people use to meet for park-and-ride. Do people from the Delphi area commute down to Lafayette? Would they park there for their carpools?

Probably doesn't matter...

 

[Boxer]

The abandoned building beside the major highway looks to me like the kind of place that people use to meet for park-and-ride. Do people from the Delphi area commute down to Lafayette? Would they park there for their carpools?

Probably doesn't matter...

MOO everything is on the table.
Indiana Packers has such high turn over they run a free bus everyday back and forth from Lafayette for potential applicants to come to the place to tour.

 

[carbuff]

MOO everything is on the table.
Indiana Packers has such high turn over they run a free bus everyday back and forth from Lafayette for potential applicants to come to the place to tour.

Oh really? Were they doing that in February 2017?

Because it seems to me that really opens up the suspect pool.

 

[sandy_80]

where is the ethics in true crime as entertainment
when they released the interrogation .. they made the families and the living victims go thru the worst .. in what way do we advance a case by releasing something like that except to feed the curious public and they talk about justice !