Found Deceased IN - Abigail (Abby) Williams, 13, & Liberty (Libby) German, 14, The Delphi Murders 13 Feb 2017 #148

[FromGermany1]

FROMGERMANY1 It is always nice to recap/review. I did not know a young woman had encountered BG on the path and her "instinct/feeling" on her attempt to offer a cordial salutation was rebuffed. This, at least for me, reinforces my scenario of a targeted/angry/determined crime.
The old proverb, "A bird in the hand is worth two in the bush." immediately came to mind. What robber passes up an easy mark and says, "No, I think I'll rob two victims at the same time."? Or kidnapper who passes up a single victim and instead decides to kidnap two people at the same time? It has just never made sense to me. (If you are polling...please enter me in the column of premeditated murder.)
I am negative <13> on a tech score of 1 to 10, so must ask: Have any of you been advised to reset your "high tech phones" in order to stop it from freezing up? Is that a common occurrence /solution young people use? Had she ever done that before? Can others intentionally send "a virus" to make your phone act up/freeze up?
I'm sure this has been discussed many times in the past, so if you just want to insert Y Or N it might work better on my simple mind.
PS...I cringe when asked ,"What kind of phone do you have?" or "Do you have a smart phone?" answer.... "I DON'T KNOW."

I think, it was planned to meet A/L and not another pair of girls or one girl. IF so, there has to be a certain reason for it - and which reason I can't determine exactly. Was BG stalked, blackmailed, filmed/caught/seen in a tricky ("immoral") situation, was there any intention (or danger) to damage his reputation forever? Or was it a THRILL for BG to kill, and his plan was set in painstaking preparation and everything was thought out down to the smallest detail: disguise #1, disguise #2, car parking there, this MHB, crime scene beginning near the South end, these 2 girls, that escape route, this appointment in Delphi for an alibi, and so on?

If BG needed thrill kills (my idea: to cause the next SENSATION on SM and MSN) and it wasn't his first action, he probably is a very smart (and insidious?) psychopath, who developed plans, which he executed meticulously. So, the 16 yo witness remained a witness only and was not even up for debate for him as a possible victim, I think. He didn't want to kill at another location than planned and he didn't want to kill another victim than A/L, otherwise his whole strategy would have gone haywire.
My thoughts only, and I maybe very wrong of course. IMO MOO as always.

PS: What I can't understand at all, is that the man, seen by the 16yo witness, had his lower half of face covered. How can you show yourself like that on a warm February day? But his calculation worked: he wasn't recognised until today, even though he was acting so conspicuous.

 

[margarita25]

Just wanted to say it is truly inspiring, the continued, unwavering commitment to Abby and Libby’s case.

 

[Boxer]

FROMGERMANY1 It is always nice to recap/review. I did not know a young woman had encountered BG on the path and her "instinct/feeling" on her attempt to offer a cordial salutation was rebuffed. This, at least for me, reinforces my scenario of a targeted/angry/determined crime.
The old proverb, "A bird in the hand is worth two in the bush." immediately came to mind. What robber passes up an easy mark and says, "No, I think I'll rob two victims at the same time."? Or kidnapper who passes up a single victim and instead decides to kidnap two people at the same time? It has just never made sense to me. (If you are polling...please enter me in the column of premeditated murder.)
I am negative <13> on a tech score of 1 to 10, so must ask: Have any of you been advised to reset your "high tech phones" in order to stop it from freezing up? Is that a common occurrence /solution young people use? Had she ever done that before? Can others intentionally send "a virus" to make your phone act up/freeze up?
I'm sure this has been discussed many times in the past, so if you just want to insert Y Or N it might work better on my simple mind.
PS...I cringe when asked ,"What kind of phone do you have?" or "Do you have a smart phone?" answer.... "I DON'T KNOW."

From what I know there are two types of resetting a smart phone.
One way you can reset the phone back to its nominal settings without deleting photos or other saved things. A second type called axhard reset removes data like photos and chat logs from the phone.

People do reset phones for freezing and being slow, usually the soft reset.

 

[Awsi Dooger]

Two teenage girls don't wander around for 40 minutes while snapping two still photographs and taking one 43 second video. There is plenty more on Libby's phone. I've never listened to this podcast that is now seemingly dictating coverage of the case -- and granted I may have missed plenty via attention elsewhere for 6 months -- but every time I drop in or see a report it's always strictly one dimensional in terms of leaking things the Klines supposedly did or said. Meanwhile catfishing is two way input and attention. A competent source should either volunteer or be immediately asked by the podcasters about the remaining fresh content on Libby's phone...pictures, videos, calls, texts, internet searches, etc. That would be best evidence toward whether the girls were indeed waiting for someone or were merely going about an afternoon trek while one of them experienced the bridge crossing for the first time. Heck, there are certainly words from Libby at the outset of the video filming Abby's bridge completion, before the phone was hastened to the pocket.

I have to believe there's nothing there related to meeting someone. Otherwise I don't know how this guy sits out of jail for 3+ years, nor why the FBI would seemingly lose all interest, and we were frequently led to believe there was no social media angle. A new approach is never necessary if Libby's smartphone activity on February 13 links with the account they found out about within days.

I suppose it's possible that a meeting was never officially set up, at least in Libby's mind, but the other side had enough inkling that the girls might show up at the bridge, to the point somebody went there on speculation.

Regardless, that somebody in Libby's video is neither one of the Klines. Sometimes it helps not to be a blender.

 

[raja]

My opinion only is that girls that age are thinking about boys a lot. One of the 2 girls thought they were meeting up with a “hot dude” and brought the other along for support. They were not playing Nancy Drew to catch a bad guy. I’m not sure who was playing the “hot dude” but upon site they knew the guy from the bridge was not him. Controlling 2 girls would be difficult and if BG had not planned on killing once he had 2 girls he had no choice but to kill one. The other could not be left as a witness. IMO they were covered in mud to destroy evidence. KK is involved and I still think JBC is involved.

 

[sandy_80]

Two teenage girls don't wander around for 40 minutes while snapping two still photographs and taking one 43 second video. There is plenty more on Libby's phone. I've never listened to this podcast that is now seemingly dictating coverage of the case -- and granted I may have missed plenty via attention elsewhere for 6 months -- but every time I drop in or see a report it's always strictly one dimensional in terms of leaking things the Klines supposedly did or said. Meanwhile catfishing is two way input and attention. A competent source should either volunteer or be immediately asked by the podcasters about the remaining fresh content on Libby's phone...pictures, videos, calls, texts, internet searches, etc. That would be best evidence toward whether the girls were indeed waiting for someone or were merely going about an afternoon trek while one of them experienced the bridge crossing for the first time. Heck, there are certainly words from Libby at the outset of the video filming Abby's bridge completion, before the phone was hastened to the pocket.

I have to believe there's nothing there related to meeting someone. Otherwise I don't know how this guy sits out of jail for 3+ years, nor why the FBI would seemingly lose all interest, and we were frequently led to believe there was no social media angle. A new approach is never necessary if Libby's smartphone activity on February 13 links with the account they found out about within days.

I suppose it's possible that a meeting was never officially set up, at least in Libby's mind, but the other side had enough inkling that the girls might show up at the bridge, to the point somebody went there on speculation.

Regardless, that somebody in Libby's video is neither one of the Klines. Sometimes it helps not to be a blender.

thank you ...all of this have been completely disregarded following this klines craze...common sense says its not remotely possible that the girls mentioned meeting anyone with all the audio available or else the case would have been something else right at the start
common sense also says its not possible the girls had all this talk and never mention the purpose of their date at the bridge
yet now if you only suggest that bg has nothing to do with the klines.. you are completely shut off..we cant even speculate on that anymore its that bad
how much damage to the case.. and based on what ? more of the clumsy investigation and the hidden persuasions of the media and podcasts ?

 

[Boxer]

g

Two teenage girls don't wander around for 40 minutes while snapping two still photographs and taking one 43 second video. There is plenty more on Libby's phone. I've never listened to this podcast that is now seemingly dictating coverage of the case -- and granted I may have missed plenty via attention elsewhere for 6 months -- but every time I drop in or see a report it's always strictly one dimensional in terms of leaking things the Klines supposedly did or said. Meanwhile catfishing is two way input and attention. A competent source should either volunteer or be immediately asked by the podcasters about the remaining fresh content on Libby's phone...pictures, videos, calls, texts, internet searches, etc. That would be best evidence toward whether the girls were indeed waiting for someone or were merely going about an afternoon trek while one of them experienced the bridge crossing for the first time. Heck, there are certainly words from Libby at the outset of the video filming Abby's bridge completion, before the phone was hastened to the pocket.

I have to believe there's nothing there related to meeting someone. Otherwise I don't know how this guy sits out of jail for 3+ years, nor why the FBI would seemingly lose all interest, and we were frequently led to believe there was no social media angle. A new approach is never necessary if Libby's smartphone activity on February 13 links with the account they found out about within days.

I suppose it's possible that a meeting was never officially set up, at least in Libby's mind, but the other side had enough inkling that the girls might show up at the bridge, to the point somebody went there on speculation.

Regardless, that somebody in Libby's video is neither one of the Klines. Sometimes it helps not to be a blender.

Good points.The FBI is a support to the ISP so it is the ISP driving direction. MOO ISP seemed to focus on RL. He is a scofflaw and known to the CCSU for various things. MOO a bit similar to the Flora Girls. They have a person known to the Mom they suspect and seemingly would entertain no other scenarios.
With A&L there is a catfishing aspect they bypassed early.
With Flora girls there is the element that the PK kitty corner was run by a meth dealer
sex offender that seems a nexus.

 

[TL4S]

thank you ...all of this have been completely disregarded following this klines craze...common sense says its not remotely possible that the girls mentioned meeting anyone with all the audio available or else the case would have been something else right at the start
common sense also says its not possible the girls had all this talk and never mention the purpose of their date at the bridge
yet now if you only suggest that bg has nothing to do with the klines.. you are completely shut off..we cant even speculate on that anymore its that bad
how much damage to the case.. and based on what ? more of the clumsy investigation and the hidden persuasions of the media and podcasts ?

I agree that the girls would have likely discussed meeting a boy if that was the plan, but we also don't know what was said off the recordings, or even on. "The stuff girls talk about" could be boys, and since everyone seems to think LE has lied about things left and right, why would them not mentioning the girls talking about a_shots be surprising? The family may or may not have heard everything. And it's also possible a meeting wasn't planned, only that they told a_shots they were going to the bridge.

IMO, the interest in the Ks is not strictly due to the MS podcast. It started when ISP put out a public ask about a_shots, with tips going to the A & L tip line, and an update later on possible SM platforms used. BP confirmed that L had spoken to a_shots and that LE suspects a SM connection. KAK was the admitted creator of a_shots, so while that alone doesn't pin him as the killer, it seems significant enough to look at.

 

[StarryStarryNight]

Two teenage girls don't wander around for 40 minutes while snapping two still photographs and taking one 43 second video. There is plenty more on Libby's phone. I've never listened to this podcast that is now seemingly dictating coverage of the case -- and granted I may have missed plenty via attention elsewhere for 6 months -- but every time I drop in or see a report it's always strictly one dimensional in terms of leaking things the Klines supposedly did or said. Meanwhile catfishing is two way input and attention. A competent source should either volunteer or be immediately asked by the podcasters about the remaining fresh content on Libby's phone...pictures, videos, calls, texts, internet searches, etc. That would be best evidence toward whether the girls were indeed waiting for someone or were merely going about an afternoon trek while one of them experienced the bridge crossing for the first time. Heck, there are certainly words from Libby at the outset of the video filming Abby's bridge completion, before the phone was hastened to the pocket.

I have to believe there's nothing there related to meeting someone. Otherwise I don't know how this guy sits out of jail for 3+ years, nor why the FBI would seemingly lose all interest, and we were frequently led to believe there was no social media angle. A new approach is never necessary if Libby's smartphone activity on February 13 links with the account they found out about within days.

I suppose it's possible that a meeting was never officially set up, at least in Libby's mind, but the other side had enough inkling that the girls might show up at the bridge, to the point somebody went there on speculation.

Regardless, that somebody in Libby's video is neither one of the Klines. Sometimes it helps not to be a blender.

I don’t think BG is a Kline either, but I do think they are involved somehow.
You’re dismissing the information from the podcast saying their sources have not been telling the podcasters about pictures and texts and calls, etc but you don’t have anyway to know that those things haven’t been shared. That that information, though not specifically shared with the public, may be why the podcasters feel confident in what they are reporting.
The MS podcast might have released the police interview with KAK from 2020, but they did not interview him. LE did. They did not ask him about Delphi. LE did that.
We all have the choice of believing whatever we want. The one thing I come back to is it was the Delphi Task Force that requested information on anthony_shots back in December 2021. Out of the blue. I don’t know why it took them so long to inform us. Some major screw up on their part probably. It blew up all my theories since 2017. I was reluctant to believe it but I do now.

 

[sandy_80]

I don’t think BG is a Kline either, but I do think they are involved somehow.
You’re dismissing the information from the podcast saying their sources have not been telling the podcasters about pictures and texts and calls, etc but you don’t have anyway to know that those things haven’t been shared. That that information, though not specifically shared with the public, may be why the podcasters feel confident in what they are reporting.
The MS podcast might have released the police interview with KAK from 2020, but they did not interview him. LE did. They did not ask him about Delphi. LE did that.
We all have the choice of believing whatever we want. The one thing I come back to is it was the Delphi Task Force that requested information on anthony_shots back in December 2021. Out of the blue. I don’t know why it took them so long to inform us. Some major screw up on their part probably. It blew up all my theories since 2017. I was reluctant to believe it but I do now.

its not out of the blue
around this time...KAK as a peado that was left free to do what he wants was out ..a news agency apparently threatened to make a news release about this so LE came out with this statement ..alongside ( no one made any mistake ) thing

 

[StarryStarryNight]

its not out of the blue
around this time...KAK as a peado that was left free to do what he wants was out ..a news agency apparently threatened to make a news release about this so LE came out with this statement ..alongside ( no one made any mistake ) thing

I meant out of the blue for us, the public.

 

[IQuestion]

thank you ...all of this have been completely disregarded following this klines craze...common sense says its not remotely possible that the girls mentioned meeting anyone with all the audio available or else the case would have been something else right at the start
common sense also says its not possible the girls had all this talk and never mention the purpose of their date at the bridge
yet now if you only suggest that bg has nothing to do with the klines.. you are completely shut off..we cant even speculate on that anymore its that bad
how much damage to the case.. and based on what ? more of the clumsy investigation and the hidden persuasions of the media and podcasts ?

SANDY-80 Common sense? ... 5 years of investigating has chased "common sense" off the stage for many of us, IMO. You think/see things differently than me. For that reason alone I read each of your posts with great interest!
I stayed up (way too late) reading scenarios totally different than I had imagined. It hurt my soul and tears well up even as I type this. This monster has to be identified and caught. I'm all in on anyone who keeps this case on the forefront and makes people safer.

I do have one question for anyone following...why did KK keep his geographic search for minors within a one hour radius if his intent was never to meet a victim of his catfishing?

 

[Ekliptika]

When discussing the phone something has bothered me for a while. I believe I have read somewhere that Libby did not have her own phone with her that day on the bridge. She had Becky’s phone. I am not sure if this is yet another one of these rumours out there about this case, that is not true. I can’t find a source and don’t remember where I read it. Just want to hear if anyone else Can confirm this to be true. Apologies if I am violating the rules, it is not my intention to spread false information. I Will delete this post if not appropriate.

 

[sandy_80]

right ..many crimes goes against any sense, I know ... but in this case , I feel that logic might be used because we have many crumbs left to us by libby and abby along the way
like the fairy tale..
and my true feeling is that we must listen to the girls first and most telling us their story ..cause this LE has never listened to them ..not truly

 

[cbeagle]

yet now if you only suggest that bg has nothing to do with the klines.. you are completely shut off..we cant even speculate on that anymore its that bad
how much damage to the case.. and based on what ? more of the clumsy investigation and the hidden persuasions of the media and podcasts ?

Not sure anyone has been shut off, you have been frequently stating you don't believe KAK/TK are involved.

What I have seen is people responding points of view that KAK/TK are somehow involved, based upon at least the apparent fact that LE seems to be following that theory, which itself is from Murder Sheet's contact(s) and the Delphi link to anthony_shots.

Maybe you are correct, but in that case it's LE that needs to change direction, nothing to do with Murder Sheet's podcast or any discussion here.

 

[Boxer]

its not out of the blue
around this time...KAK as a peado that was left free to do what he wants was out ..a news agency apparently threatened to make a news release about this so LE came out with this statement ..alongside ( no one made any mistake ) thing

Wasn’t their statement more along the line that that no one intentionally made a mistake.

 

[carbuff]

Not sure anyone has been shut off, you have been frequently stating you don't believe KAK/TK are involved.

What I have seen is people responding points of view that KAK/TK are somehow involved, based upon at least the apparent fact that LE seems to be following that theory, which itself is from Murder Sheet's contact(s) and the Delphi link to anthony_shots.

Maybe you are correct, but in that case it's LE that needs to change direction, nothing to do with Murder Sheet's podcast or any discussion here.

Also there are at least three of us who still think JBC is the more likely candidate for BG, and while people disagree with us and point out the strong evidence for KAK's involvement, I don't take that as being shut off, I take it that I hold a minority opinion.

p.s. unrelated--I'm going to be taking a bit of a break for reasons that have nothing to do with WS (family, personal).

 

[Boxer]

SANDY-80 Common sense? ... 5 years of investigating has chased "common sense" off the stage for many of us, IMO. You think/see things differently than me. For that reason alone I read each of your posts with great interest!
I stayed up (way too late) reading scenarios totally different than I had imagined. It hurt my soul and tears well up even as I type this. This monster has to be identified and caught. I'm all in on anyone who keeps this case on the forefront and makes people safer.

I do have one question for anyone following...why did KK keep his geographic search for minors within a one hour radius if his intent was never to meet a victim of his catfishing?

Agree. Peeping/catfish mix seems the only logical reason.

 

[Boxer]

Peepers often escalate to break ins/rapes/homocodes. It’s a first step to in person violation and tolerance then motivates to greater acts of violation for the same effect.

 

[Justice101]

Whenever a murder case is not solved in the first year, especially murdered by a stranger, LE is always criticized and maligned as incompetent, not telling the public all the nitty gritty details so they can help solve it, cover-up, etc.

The reality is that none of us here really know what LE has and does not have. So some of us are lashing out emotionally. Maybe there is not enough evidence to arrest someone. That happens. Some crimes are committed and there is little in the way of real useable evidence. It's nobody's fault.

I, too, am frustrated that we have video and audio of the supposed murderer... yet no arrest. This leads me to believe they can't tie the person to the scene, yet they have a very good idea who it actually is. My guess is JBC.