Found Deceased IN - Abigail (Abby) Williams, 13, & Liberty (Libby) German, 14, The Delphi Murders 13 Feb 2017 #94

[apples12]

Hi all,
Have followed this case closely for 2 years but haven’t posted much.
My humble opinion is 100% today that LE knows who the killer is. I feel no doubt whatsoever. Just my opinion.
My question is... if, hypothetically... LE knows who the killer is and knew at the press conference... why the press conference? Do they need more to convict? Do they want a confession so it’s an easier case to prosecute? Do they want the killer to sweat it out? Is it as simple as that? If they do indeed have DNA, wouldn’t a match prove the case? I know it’s been discussed but would love to hear some more thoughts on this.
My opinion is... something happened to point them in a different direction that began with the car parked at the abandoned building. That led to reviewing other sketches. But the biggest thing I cannot quite figure out is if indeed they know who it is (which I am certain of, IMO) why the press conference? Why isn’t he under arrest?

MOO They want corroborating evidence for conviction.

 

[MistyWaters]

Hi all,
Have followed this case closely for 2 years but haven’t posted much.
My humble opinion is 100% today that LE knows who the killer is. I feel no doubt whatsoever. Just my opinion.
My question is... if, hypothetically... LE knows who the killer is and knew at the press conference... why the press conference? Do they need more to convict? Do they want a confession so it’s an easier case to prosecute? Do they want the killer to sweat it out? Is it as simple as that? If they do indeed have DNA, wouldn’t a match prove the case? I know it’s been discussed but would love to hear some more thoughts on this.
My opinion is... something happened to point them in a different direction that began with the car parked at the abandoned building. That led to reviewing other sketches. But the biggest thing I cannot quite figure out is if indeed they know who it is (which I am certain of, IMO) why the press conference? Why isn’t he under arrest?

I wonder about this too.

I may’ve become somewhat delusioned because of how many times in the past 26 months we’ve thought LE knows who it is. Literally every time this case has been the focus of the media it’s been considered solved right back to the beginning and obviously that can’t be true. If they knew who it was they wouldn’t still be asking for tips aided by a police sketch and the audio and video IMO.

That’s not to say they don’t have a list of possible suspects and require somebody who knows this creep to come forward and help them fill in the blanks. I’m hopeful, that could happen any day.

 

[Gumbeaux]

Tha

Thank you. Do you know which church it was that showed the film? Was it a Methodist church?

I don’t believe we have heard that a church showed the film at all. The film itself was released after the murders. If you have read that a church screened the film, please provide a link.

 

[Angelcat13]

[bbm]

mind sharing the name of the killer? I'd be interested to read about that one

I’m not sure if this is the case the person was referring to but, if not, it’s almost identical. Christopher Kornberger, Evesham, NJ 2003.

I live nearby and this was big news. Krista DiFrancesco was found one morning outside of her townhome clinging to life by a neighbor. She apparently was attacked after returning home and never made it into her home that she shared with her husband. She did not survive.

Christopher Kornberger, who was 18 y/o at the time, was later convicted of killing Krista and attacking four other women - two in Evesham and two in Waterford Twp.

Kornberger attacked one of the Evesham women, stabbing her in the back as she walked past him in broad daylight in her upscale neighborhood. The other woman was jogging in the Kings Grant section of Evesham when Kornberger intentionally struck her with his car and attempted to drag her into his car. She fought back and a neighbor came to her aid after hearing the woman’s screams. At first Kornberger tried to claim it was an accident and that he was trying to help the woman into his car so he could help her.

I knew someone that was friendly with him in HS and she said everyone was surprised that he could do these things. And he was only 18.

 

[heartgoesout]

Exactly. They can't walk into a court room and say,
He looks like a sketch we drew. So do a lot of people.
His boots match a footprint. He's a hunter and has been there before.
He was off work that day. Many were.
They need the who, what, when, where and why, to place him there, at the time of the murders with motive.

 

[Jax49]

I’m new to this case and WS but have been reading about this tragic case. I have a question about the location the bodies were found. Someone posted a map the indicated they were found on the opposite side of the creek from where the apparent abduction took place.
If this is true, would someone have been able to wade the creek in February?
If BG carried/dragged bodies across the creek, did he the hike back up hill and cross bridge? Or could he have returned to car by walking along the creek?
Sorry if this has been discussed previously, just trying to think about possibilities.

Hi and welcome to WS.

I'm firmly convinced the teens were killed where they were found. And, yes, it is most likely the three crossed the creek.

Carrying the bodies would have been almost impossible, imho. As to how the killer left, there are several opinions.

moo

 

[Jax49]

I'd wager the only disability this guy has is in the brain function department. Imoo

I'm in total agreement. moo

 

[heartgoesout]

Exactly. They can't walk into a court room and say,
He looks like a sketch we drew. So do a lot of people.
His boots match a footprint. He's a hunter and has been there before.
He was off work that day. Many were.
They need the who, what, when, where and why, to place him there, at the time of the murders with motive.

So going off my own post, let's say they are pretty sure of the who. Can they get a conviction based off of circumstantial evidence?

They know the what/cause of death. Does the perp have this weapon? Why does he have this weapon? Is it from work? Are they in charge of tools at work? Is the weapon unique to him? Can they place him with the weapon?

They know the when. Feb 13th 2017. Was the perp there? If so does it make sense that he was there? Are there witnesses? Was he absent from work? Or unemployed?

Why? Was there a vendetta? Is he a repeat violent offender? A registered sex offender? Has he shown mental unstableness?

So many intricate moving parts that need to align to nab this monster. Then you get into jury instruction which is a whole other thing.

I have faith though. His days are numbered.

 

[mtnlites]

I’m not the writer of that post but I think “at range” refers to at a distance. (ie gunfire, arrow, no physical contact),

Um, yeah. I understand what "at range" means. The poster said that DNA isn't useful if the victim was killed at range, but just because they were killed at a distance doesn't mean that there wasn't some physical contact or struggle first. People DO sometimes struggle during an assault and then get killed when they are trying to run away.

FWIW, I don't believe this happened. I think they were killed very close up. I just disagreed with the statement that DNA wasn't useful if they weren't.

 

[Sneaker33]

I recall conversations speculating on Sgt. Carter's description of Abby and Libby as two little girls versus teens. I did not think much at the time as they are very young girls. A thought comes to my mind is the killer could have two little girls in his family. This certainly would be shocking if he was the devoted father, community member etc.

 

[rosesfromangels]

Everyone seems to have a different take on the Perp's gait, and if there was impairment. After seeing the bridge slats from an aerial view, it's clear that careful stepping was required. That bridge looks old and mighty dangerous.

This brings up a couple of additional thoughts. Abby and Libby would have picked up speed after alerting to a creepy guy following them. If he were older and had a walking disability, there is no way he could keep up with two young agile kids.

Thus, he must have been on the younger side of the age estimate, and physically abled. As many have said, his gait might have been slightly askew due to the bridge slats, or walking with his murderous tools stuffed in his coat, pants.

As I dwell on this, it occurs to me that this Perp wasn't only *not* disabled, but he must have been in great shape to carry his gear, navigate the bridge slats in an agile fashion, *and* catch up to two girls who were, no doubt, moving at a brisk pace because they were alerted and scared. Scared enough to start taking a video of this guy. It occurs to me that he must either be an outdoor laborer (like farm worker), or is an *athlete* of some sort, or both.

Amateur opinion and speculation

 

[Mamamerced]

I don’t believe we have heard that a church showed the film at all. The film itself was released after the murders. If you have read that a church screened the film, please provide a link.

If I had the link I wouldn't be asking for information.
My memory is far from perfect but I thought I had read about a church showing the film recently and that there was a flurry of discussion here about it.

 

[mtnlites]

I had not realized that they had confirmed the first sketch is redundant.

I wonder who the hell that was then as it’s not related to the crime why wouldn’t they of come forward?

I also said the two sketches bore no resemblance to each other so I’m glad that’s been cleared up even if I hadn’t read about it until now.

People have been crucified all over social media for simply looking at the sketch. There have been poor random Delphites who have been turned in as "tips" simply because they bear a resemblance or because someone from another state decides that "it must be someone who's in X profession". And sometimes these names are run into the ground. Sometimes those whose names are brought up actually fear for their lives.

So yeah, I could see how someone might be nervous about coming forward, especially if they were actually there that day. My instinct would've been to go straight to LE and say, "Hey, that sketch was me but while I was there that day, I did NOT do it." But I can also understand why they'd be nervous.

 

[curiousgene]

Long time lurker here. Haven't posted anything in a long time. Trying to catch up reading the thread which moves so fast. Many people have looked at BG's video and wondered if he is wearing an ear cover/hat with ear flaps. I was wondering could that be a wrestling head gear to protect the ears with the flap open which makes it look like a white thread/rope/whatever hanging in the front of his coat.

 

[cluckcluckcluckcluck]

Good morning,
I'm new to this case (although have followed a few other cases on WS), only reading up on Libby & Abby since the latest news conference. (My deepest sympathies to family and friends and all WSers who have grown to love them too). Just a few points, and I am apologizing in advance if these have been mentioned previously (absolutely no way to catch up on every post on every thread here on WS).

1. Hide in plain site: Raising the idea of a "possible" disguise. Could he possibly NOT be saying "Hey guys..." But ".....disguise" (maybe the girls ultimately recognized him at some point when he got closer), as in - "Ha! Do you 2 like my disguise?" Although I do feel that is a stretch.
2. Could BG be a homeless guy or drifter or community outcast, the local odd one who eats at the cafe for free or lives in grandma's basement or trailer on her property, or whatever? He looks taller and slimmer than I originally thought on the video, possibly with a bad haircut or non-haircut. I see normal clothing you would not notice but also a fanny pack and his hands/forearms hiding something up inside his coat/hoodie. Could his bulkiness be that he wears most everything he owns? Also a stretch, I know.
3. I don't feel he has a neurologic gait. I feel he is stepping carefully due to the bridge. I do feel maybe he walks with his hands in his pockets like that or head lowered, something, in real life.
4. Could the "2 weeks" be an absolute time it takes for certain DNA or lab results to be processed/return?
5. And this one is me watching way too much movie of the week or crime TV, but the presser was soooooo odd to me. The speaker's choice of words and delivery was like nothing I have ever seen. Could killer have reached out in some way or given some indication that he is ready to kill again and gave LE a list of things that MUST be said/exposed/lied about to keep him from killing again? Example: You must mention The Shack, show a completely different and random sketch, state to not contact the family for 2 weeks, use the words hide in plain set, make it very clear that LE is inept and needs to start over, blahblahblah. A checklist of things to throw people off. It just felt very much like a couple of times the speaker acted like he almost did not want to say words that he was required to say. And then he stormed out at the end, like - THERE, I did what you asked and I'm pissed that I had to.

ALL just MOO, MHO, MUO.

 

[rosesfromangels]

I have been thinking about this case endlessly since the recent press announcement and new sketch.

Does anyone know if the vendors who deliver to the middle school have been given a look over? The guy who delivers the bread, the "bread man", and so forth. NOT pointing fingers at anyone, just brainstorming.

Taking this a step further, do we know if any of these vendor deliveries would have occurred where there could have been interaction with the children? Are deliveries made close by the outdoor field where the kids play?

I hope LE has taken a look at all vendor deliveries to that school, and those who do the delivering. This would be another rule out I would want on my check list.

Again, *not* pointing fingers at anyone, just thinking thoroughly in any and all possibilities for contact with Abby & Libby.

Amateur opinion and speculation only

 

[MDATCA]

Mother's don't always


If the attacker was interrupted or got cold feet, they might have seen their way into murder pretty damn quick. It wouldn't be the first time. If the attacker decided between getting the girls from the initial location to the secondary location was too risky, then the attacker could have tried to.... " cover his losses," so to speak. And this would actually fit the profile of an amateur attacker.

I have thought this myself. He could have senor heard someone on the and feared they would hear the girls so he had to abandon the idea of sexually assaulting them first and get the hell out of there as quickly and discretely as possible. I dont think he used a gun as that would have been heard but he had one that he controlled them with. I also think if he had shot them that we would have heard about ballistic evidence. He may legally carry and knew that LE could ID what kind of gun was used and would then search out legal owners and question them.

 

[MDATCA]

Question for law professionals- @gitana1 : on the subject of probable cause- someone mentioned that trash, once discarded on the street, is public property and therefore fair game for DNA retrieval by LE. Is a probably cause warrant required for that DNA to be collected? Someone mentioned the "coffee cup trick". Is obtaining DNA by any means other than with a warrant allowed? Can you really trick someone into giving DNA and use that evidence in court?

That is basically how they verifed the bike path rapist in the Buffalo NY area.

 

[rosesfromangels]

It occurs to me that he must either be an outdoor laborer (like farm worker), or is an *athlete* of some sort, or both.

Quoting myself! I'm on a roll this morning; good coffee. : )
I'm going to take this athlete theory a step further. I would guess he had either played football and/or was a wrestler in school.

Amateur opinion and speculation

 

[MistyWaters]

I just wanted to address an assumption that's been going around here since the recent press conference. There was talk of the family walking out angrily before/at the beginning of it. But I've been going over a lot of footage of the April 22 PC and Libby's mother (and supporters) and Libby's grandmother Becky (and supporters) were there throughout and did not walk out.

Here is an example of news footage which shows them about 3 and a half mins into the briefing:

I found a video of the entire briefing on FB (non news source) which shows them still there after 6:40 mins. If any of the family had walked out at any stage, they would have had to walk past this person who was filming due to the positioning of the exits. There's no evidence they did.

So can we treat that "walked out in a huff" stuff as a rumor to be taken with a huge grain of salt?

Wow, thanks for checking this out and clarifying!