IN - Abigail Williams, 13, & Liberty German, 14, Delphi, 13 Feb 2017 #54

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I am just raising this question, because the killer may not be as smart? Is he smart at all? A risk taker? A gambler? A controller? A violent person? A smooth talker? An organized person?

What is he and who is he?

-Nin

I like these questions. I'd think it'd take some level of mental risk to do anything criminal, unless they just lack the ability to relate emotional stuff properly, idk. He's either somewhat smart or darn lucky, maybe he's only smart in the area of this crime and escape. I suspect he's violent, he did murder two innocent children, makes me sick. If someone in LE? Thinking was, suspected he sounded exasperated , he may not be smooth talking in those situations .. to me it seems like a gamble, daylight two teens.Imo always And I could be completely wrong
 
I noticed on this early video at the 2.05 mark and 2.16 mark .The other guy on the right (shorter guy with darker hair and a hat? hoodie?.) says.Looking for answers.Looking for the girls and then he says later.Day break.Fall over with exhaustion.He speaks in short direct statements.Just like the guy in the picture on the bridge did.I have listened to this bridge guys voice over and over and over again.I know it by heart.It's not just the guy in the video his voice .It's the way this guy in the video said his words, statements .Who is he?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kop2LjEGm_8&feature=youtu.be
Who is EW (News says "friend of AW)? He speaks from 1:45 -1:54 mark. An interesting to what a commenter left in the comments section as what they seem to hear. FWIW
 
Really doesn't sound anything like bg imo. Thanks for your post though
I noticed on this early video at the 2.05 mark and 2.16 mark .The guy on the right (shorter guy with darker hair and a hat? hoodie?.) says.Looking for answers.Looking for the girls and then he says later.Day break.Fall over with exhaustion.He speaks in short direct statements.Just like the guy in the picture on the bridge did.I have listened to this bridge guys voice over and over and over again.I know it by heart.It's not just the guy in the video his voice .It's the way this guy in the video said his words, statements .Who is he?
 
Yes, they do have the phone then! I am completely floored. How can it be, that the killer did not notice the phone?? There is something very unsettling about it, besides the fact the girls were murdered of course.

All IMO

-Nin

n

I hate to say this but my teen daughter felt that the phone was meant to be found, as were the girls.

She also doesn't believe that they were even covered with leaves. Her theory is that you either leave them to be found or you bury them so that they are never found.:(
 
Sure. Not a risk taker if this was planned. And if we take a theory a step further, he knew how much time he had. IMO he knows the layout of the area.

He knows that bridge. He walked on the outermost portion of the bridge. I posted a link waaay back about how others walk that bridge. Carefully and down the middle.

He knows of the properties that surround the bridge. If as RL descries the CS location is correct, he had total control in getting them to that point. He knew how to hike to that spot. He's done it before. Maybe as a kid.

And I firmly believe BG is not RL. But I do think it is someone who either is or used to be local.

If this was an abduction from a busy downtown park I would say yes, he likes the thrill of the risk.

The audio was in control. Not out of breath.

Not happy with any theory quite honestly because they angels lost their lives.

Edit to add: He's not as smart as he thinks because he left clues behind. He messed up that day. IMO


Or he's never set foot on that bridge before. He could just be a psychopath with an inability to recognise danger?

Given what he's done, psychopathy is at least a possibility


Psychopaths do feel fear but do not recognise danger, according to new research.

Researchers from Vrije Universiteit Amsterdam and Radboud University Nijmegen found psychopaths have trouble detecting and responding to threats.

The team examined early works, dating back as far as 1806 and created a model that separated the brain mechanisms involved in responding to threats and experiencing fear.

http://www.independent.co.uk/life-s...dam-radboud-university-nijmegen-a7220151.html


I definitely agree he may have a strong familiarity with one or more properties along that creek though - either now or in the past.
 
I am a bit torn between the murders being specifically planned or just being planned in general and therefore opportunistic by nature. In other words, do you think the girls - or one of them - was being stalked? Or do you think the POI/BG was scouting for a victim/ victims in general and just happened to run into the girls?

-Nin

Just an idea in my head, I think one was specifically targeted and a poorly planned abduction was to occur but the two stuck together and refused to cooperate. Maybe they attempted to flee and were executed in doing so:-( because the perp was angered and it left no witnesses to the failed intentions.

But just to mention, I noticed in the FBI list of things that might prompt people to call in a tip, no where was it mentioned the suspect might bear scratches or wounds from that date. So I don't think there was a physical battle, no DNA under fingernails etc. Likely the perp used a gun. Several of the mentioned 13 SWs may have been to obtain guns in an attempt to match unique markings, ie bullet forensics.

I think he was in a 30-40 age range, a loner, mentally unstable but not enough to be recognized by another.


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I hate to say this but my teen daughter felt that the phone was meant to be found, as were the girls.

She also doesn't believe that they were even covered with leaves. Her theory is that you either leave them to be found or you bury them so that they are never found.:(

I kinda felt like that about the phone, it bothers me how much BG either seems not to care about the phone, or being seen or however, obviously the whole thing is disturbing and horrible, but I feel more disturbed if in fact he wanted the phone found, if something horrible was on it, which we dont know i guess, imo that's a whole different type of sick individual.Imo always
 
LE likely knows from the audio and video we are not privy to.

That is true. But on that afternoon/early evening, one of the officers on scanner stated last seen at the High Bridge.

Also, it could possibly mean a generic name for that genera area, trails included.
 
I think BG was targeting the specific area, not specific victim. I think he had previously scouted the entire area, though is not local. It wouldn't surprise me if he had no clue there was no school that day. I lean toward his thinking being: a mild, mid-winter day, a Monday, maybe a woman who likes to get out for a run or trail walk and hadn't in a while due to weather. Maybe he thought it being a weekday, if he was patient, someone would come along, but the area wouldn't be crowded with witnesses. JMO

This is what I believe happened. I think people get hung up on the idea that all killers are targeting the exact same types of victims in similar circumstances. It doesn't always work that way. If this guy has done this before, I don't think he necessarily always targets girls in pairs, for instance. Also, a 9-year-old (pre-pubescent) being taken from a bike is just about as different from 13-14 year-old girls (pubescent) on a trail is to a woman in her 20's (post-pubescent) jogging would be. BG may have done the same thing to a 21-year-old, if he had encountered her that day, instead of the girls.

Of course, there are always the sickos who do target specific age ranges, so I'm not completely ruling out the possibility that this guy was specifically scouting for pubescent girls that day. I just don't believe that he knew who he would find, until he got there. If he had planned a meeting from following them on social media, then I would expect that LE would have an easier time tracking him down.




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Regarding Libby's phone..it's possible BG didn't realize he was being filmed or recorded. Libby could have maybe had her back turned towards him and filmed him on the bridge in selfie mode and he didn't see her filming..then put the phone in a pocket or something before he was right up on them, with the audio recording and then maybe dropped or even threw the phone, if she wasn't walking directly in front of him, to be found or maybe hid it under leaves or something. Just a thought.

MOO
 
You do not think he is a risk taker? Can you elaborate please? I am truly interested in anyone's thoughts. Thanks

-Nin

IMO he is a risk taker. Comitting an act of murder is risky by nature and he may get a rush or thrill from the risky behaviour. Plus I think it is even more risky that he abducted/murdered two girls at the same time (at least one with a phone), in the middle of broad daylight, on a public trail, in a small town where 'everybody recognizes everybody'.
 
Thanks for that. What possible explanation can there be for her obituary to have a different date. All articles gave the date of death as the 13th. I'm simply amazed that there can be a mistake of this nature. Flabbergasted.
Some ways back in the threads there was a long discussion on this point, added to by people who take in and place the obits for publication. There are many reasons for discrepancies in dates, they are given by family members (usually) who may choose any date they want. After that discussion, I think most of us considered the two dates to be a reflection of personal reasons on the part of the families. MOO
 
Regarding Libby's phone..it's possible BG didn't realize he was being filmed or recorded. Libby could have maybe had her back turned towards him and filmed him on the bridge in selfie mode and he didn't see her filming..then put the phone in a pocket or something before he was right up on them, with the audio recording and then maybe dropped or even threw the phone, if she wasn't walking directly in front of him, to be found or maybe hid it under leaves or something. Just a thought.

MOO

This is true possible too.
 
Just an idea in my head, I think one was specifically targeted and a poorly planned abduction was to occur but the two stuck together and refused to cooperate. Maybe they attempted to flee and were executed in doing so:-( because the perp was angered and it left no witnesses to the failed intentions.

But just to mention, I noticed in the FBI list of things that might prompt people to call in a tip, no where was it mentioned the suspect might bear scratches or wounds from that date. So I don't think there was a physical battle, no DNA under fingernails etc. Likely the perp used a gun. Several of the mentioned 13 SWs may have been to obtain guns in an attempt to match unique markings, ie bullet forensics.

I think he was in a 30-40 age range, a loner, mentally unstable but not enough to be recognized by another.


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IMO BG was hunting for a victim that day, but not necessarily Abby & Libby (and not necessarily two victims, although this may be his MO). I think it was a random encounter. The girls were in the wrong place at the wrong time.

I'm curious to know if most people think the girls were walking side by side, maybe chatting or giggling, when they were approached/ambushed by BG, or could the girls have been separated by some distance (for instance, if Libby walked ahead on the bridge or went off trail to get photos) when BG made his move on Abby?

Just wondering, as it could change the dynamics and intent of the attack. If the girls were separated then he many not have intially known that there were two girls--he may have been looking for a lone female to abduct and perhaps Abby was his intended target. Libby may have filmed part of the intial attack on her friend but also tried to come to Abby 's rescue. Ultimately he got both girls under control with a weapon and made them walk 'down the hill'. He may have been attempting to march them off to his vehicle (maybe parked in the cemetary) but the girls fought back or tried to run. At this point he may have realized that he wasn't going to be able ot handle both of them, so panicked and killed both of them in a very quick and disorganized manner, leaving their bodies largely unhidden. I think he left the area very quickly, hence leaving behind the phone.
 
IMO BG was hunting for a victim that day, but not necessarily Abby & Libby (and not necessarily two victims, although this may be his MO). I think it was a random encounter. The girls were in the wrong place at the wrong time.

I'm curious to know if most people think the girls were walking side by side, maybe chatting or giggling, when they were approached/ambushed by BG, or could the girls have been separated by some distance (for instance, if Libby walked ahead on the bridge or went off trail to get photos) when BG made his move on Abby?

Just wondering, as it could change the dynamics and intent of the attack. If the girls were separated then he many not have intially known that there were two girls--he may have been looking for a lone female to abduct and perhaps Abby was his intended target. Libby may have filmed part of the intial attack on her friend but also tried to come to Abby 's rescue. Ultimately he got both girls under control with a weapon and made them walk 'down the hill'. He may have been attempting to march them off to his vehicle (maybe parked in the cemetary) but the girls fought back or tried to run. At this point he may have realized that he wasn't going to be able ot handle both of them, so panicked and killed both of them in a very quick and disorganized manner, leaving their bodies largely unhidden. I think he left the area very quickly, hence leaving behind the phone.

I agree that he wasn't necessarily targeting these particular girls. And that it could be he didn't realize there were two of them together at first (though who knows).

Don't necessarily think Abby was the primary target, though. Could have been either one (and he appears to be coming toward Libby in the video still, so perhaps she was the target, if they were separated).

All just speculation and MOO.
 
Thanks for the link. Imo always but I think it looks like a different pc? Anyone else know or heard of this pc tonight ,aside from the special which I assume is prerecorded?

Sorry cant edit, I mean obviously it's different things, but is it in regards to the special if anyone knows.
 
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