IN - Abigail Williams, 13, & Liberty German, 14, Delphi, 13 Feb 2017 #55

[Jax49]

IMO the state intends to establish the fact that both girls died on the 13th since that is the meaning of killed when applied to human life. The only terminology I am aware of which could be used differently would be to say that both girls were mortally wounded on the 13th which leaves open the date of death.

Once we had access to the petition to seal the autopsy I had to reevaluate my theories on what happened. I'd thought there was a possibility one girl was killed and the other kept alive overnight. Now, we know that didn't happen. moo

 

[Bird of Paradise]

Totally agree. But I'm afraid this has been argued six ways to Sunday, with the same intensity as hair vs hood, with no discernible indication of either side changing opinion. [emoji52]

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And for anyone who missed the discussion, we literally did argue it on Sunday so you don't have to look far. :discuss:

 

[KyMom]

I'd like to see those wanted images posted at all the regular gas stations & truck stops and I hope LE sent them to trucking companies. I recall someone on here had mentioned before that they'd asked a truck stop about putting them up and they declined, their reason being the negativity or something..which I thought was terrible and a lame excuse. I know they put up the billboards but if you're driving you're not going to be able to take a good long look like you would if an image is hanging in front of you in a window or on a door. I wonder too how many cameras LE may have been able to check out and if they spotted anything. I know it's possible, but it's still hard for me to imagine BG wouldn't have stopped in at least one convenience store that day..to get a drink, pack of smokes, gas or something. I'd like to believe he was spotted and they just haven't said anything.

This is just beyond frustrating

jmo

 

[Yvettea]

Totally agree. But I'm afraid this has been argued six ways to Sunday, with the same intensity as hair vs hood, with no discernible indication of either side changing opinion. [emoji52]

How about finding a dictionary definition of killed as relates to a human life that means something other than to die?

 

[ab01]

And for anyone who missed the discussion, we literally did argue it on Sunday so you don't have to look far. :discuss:

I'm still stuck thinking its highly likely that LE knows this suspect and probably had contact with him early on. Now, I'm not saying LE knows that they know the suspect or anything. Its just my opinion that the simpilest explanation would be some local guy that was waiting for the right opportunity or has a connection to the victims. He assulted them quickly and took them to RL property and killed them and left. Nothing more nothing less. Times of death, RL, human trafficking, drug crimes, all rabbit holes, imo. The way I see it is there is one reason and one reason only that BG went after these girls and I for one think that reason is fairly obvious. I think LE has a pretty good handle on how everything played out, I think where they are having problems, is finding solid direct evidence to tie in to a particular perp. Possible that they have a few really good suspects and just need that one piece to point to the exact one. Now the problem is, sometimes it take years and years to figure out that one little piece....all JMO

 

[KyMom]

JMO...If someone were to tell me so-n-so was killed on 4/30/2017 for ex. I'm going to take that to mean they died on 4/30/2017. I've personally never heard it said a person was killed on a certain day/date.. then died later. If they've been killed that's it..imo, they're gone.

 

[Etilema]

How about finding a dictionary definition of killed as relates to a human life that means something other than to die?

Yes. The dictionary definition was brought forth as evidence. But was refuted as being able to be interpreted as the act that might eventually cause death, whenever that may be. [emoji17]

 

[Bird of Paradise]

How about finding a dictionary definition of killed as relates to a human life that means something other than to die?

Posted it yesterday.

 

[Jo in Calif]

IMO. It has been said by MP over and over again that the girls stuck together, that one would never leave the other. I'm really wondering why one would be listed as the 13th and the other the 14th. I know that sometimes they use the date found as the date but why would they do that?

 

[Shiressleuth]

Totally agree. But I'm afraid this has been argued six ways to Sunday, with the same intensity as hair vs hood, with no discernible indication of either side changing opinion. [emoji52]


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And much like the RL issue, this won't be put to bed till the killer is caught and the full autopsy is actually made public. Till then we are still allowed our opinions based on fact and speculation- which is what WS is all about. I also think it is legitimate to discuss all this and the LE role in this too. There really is little else to discuss sadly FWICS.

 

[Shiressleuth]

I'm still stuck thinking its highly likely that LE knows this suspect and probably had contact with him early on. Now, I'm not saying LE knows that they know the suspect or anything. Its just my opinion that the simpilest explanation would be some local guy that was waiting for the right opportunity or has a connection to the victims. He assulted them quickly and took them to RL property and killed them and left. Nothing more nothing less. Times of death, RL, human trafficking, drug crimes, all rabbit holes, imo. The way I see it is there is one reason and one reason only that BG went after these girls and I for one think that reason is fairly obvious. I think LE has a pretty good handle on how everything played out, I think where they are having problems, is finding solid direct evidence to tie in to a particular perp. Possible that they have a few really good suspects and just need that one piece to point to the exact one. Now the problem is, sometimes it take years and years to figure out that one little piece....all JMO

I agree with you and because they resisted, I think was why they were killed. The TOD/COD will reveal details such as exactly when and where imo and hopefully who as well.

 

[BIC]

JMO...If someone were to tell me so-n-so was killed on 4/30/2017 for ex. I'm going to take that to mean they died on 4/30/2017. I've personally never heard it said a person was killed on a certain day/date.. then died later. If they've been killed that's it..imo, they're gone.

That's not an opinion, that's fact. Thank you.

 

[Stanly]

Following 😊

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[Shiressleuth]

IMO. It has been said by MP over and over again that the girls stuck together, that one would never leave the other. I'm really wondering why one would be listed as the 13th and the other the 14th. I know that sometimes they use the date found as the date but why would they do that?

Perhaps they are trying to tell us something by this .

 

[MistyWaters]

And much like the RL issue, this won't be put to bed till the killer is caught and the full autopsy is actually made public. Till then we are still allowed our opinions based on fact and speculation- which is what WS is all about. I also think it is legitimate to discuss all this and the LE role in this too. There really is little else to discuss sadly FWICS.

The Petition to Seal is a legal document supported by facts. Facts are considered to be factual. If the discussion breaks down to whether a legal document is incorrect then how do we know both girls are dead?

If not all information supports the facts, rather than throw out the facts, then why doesn't all information support the facts?

As for the obituary -
- sometimes families use the date found because up until then the person was alive in their hopes and heart.
- the date Abby's obituary was posted was Feb 17. It's highly possible the autopsy hadn't been completed yet.

MOO


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[Alethea]

The Petition to Seal is a legal document supported by facts. Facts are considered to be factual. If the discussion breaks down to whether a legal document is incorrect then how do we know both girls are dead?

If not all information supports the facts, rather than throw out the facts, then why doesn't all information support the facts?

As for the obituary -
- sometimes families use the date found because up until then the person was alive in their hopes and heart.
- the date Abby's obituary was posted was Feb 17. It's highly possible the autopsy hadn't been completed yet.

MOO

Completely agree. LE's date and time of death will be the expert opinion of the medical examiner based on all of the available evidence.

 

[luckeeesmom]

I disagree about BG being overdressed for the weather. Even most of the way through winter, with temps in the low mid-40's most people are still bundled up in my area, definitely would not the be the norm to wear short sleeves. My opinion has always been that the girls were underdressed, either because younger folks don't feel the cold as much as adults or they were just "being cool" and didn't want to wear coats that day.

Also, I think that the suspect is deliberately disguised by being overdressed for the weather. On the one hand he is familiar with the area - comfortable abducting two victims at that location - and on the other hand he's wearing too many clothes for someone who is adapted to that type of weather. Abby is wearing an unbuttoned coat, the suspect is wearing a coat, hoodie, and some sort of head covering. If he was running when he approached them (blitz attack) and he's wearing clothes that he does not normally wear, he might not care if there is phone-quality video of him.

 

[MistyWaters]

Yes. The dictionary definition was brought forth as evidence. But was refuted as being able to be interpreted as the act that might eventually cause death, whenever that may be. [emoji17]

I'm writing this in a humorous way - but I think anyone who doesn't understand the definition of the word "killed" should turn in their sleuthing licence!


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[MistyWaters]

Apologies if this has been posed, I missed it if so.It is from WRTV6 a few days ago.

Indiana Computer Crimes Against Children Taskforce assisting in Delphi murders investigation

Start watching the video at the 1:33 mark. This seems to really clear up if there remains any doubt as to whether they have the physical phone.

[video=youtube;wSKDQTfJtks]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wSKDQTfJtks[/video]

This was from yesterday as well, an excellent piece on the topic of forensic analysis of the cellphone data.


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[ocgrad]

The Petition to Seal is a legal document supported by facts. Facts are considered to be factual. If the discussion breaks down to whether a legal document is incorrect then how do we know both girls are dead?

If not all information supports the facts, rather than throw out the facts, then why doesn't all information support the facts?

As for the obituary -
- sometimes families use the date found because up until then the person was alive in their hopes and heart.
- the date Abby's obituary was posted was Feb 17. It's highly possible the autopsy hadn't been completed yet.

MOO


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The autopsies were completed on the 15th.