IN - Abigail Williams, 13, & Liberty German, 14, Delphi, 13 Feb 2017 #65

[Shiressleuth]

I did find an excellent map that someone posted to Websleuths. I won't copy it here, because I'm not sure that's allowed, but what is interesting to me about the area in which these murders occurred is that the trail these girls were on is so short. It's a mile and 1/2 at best.

And they were dropped off, I think, at the N 300 entrance, which would have put them even closer to the Monon Bridge. So they most likely didn't walk all that far. But they were there an hour before this guy creeps up on them. Is it possible, even with how sparse the trees were that he just stood and waited until they were far enough on the bridge, to where he could isolate them?

That's what it seems like.

And if he did this, where did he enter the trail initially? Someone mentioned the Cemetery--is there an official entrance there?

I have to wonder if anyone not familiar with this park would even know this spot. All the roads near to both of the entrances specifically for this area of the trail are somewhat off the beaten path. Even state road 25 seems like a locally used route, rather than a major thoroughfare.

This may be old news to everyone else, but it almost seems like this guy is a local. I didn't think so before. But that part of the trail is very off the beaten path---or am I wrong about that?

Could you give us a clue what post in WS contains the excellent map of which you speak? Please?

 

[JazzTune]

No but in your theory it wouldn't matter because they would be driven away quickly. In the no vehicle theory they would be out of site and sound across the creek at the CS. Same difference.

With my theory they were off and gone in a matter of minutes. He dramatically DECREASED the chances of being seen.

However, if he had marched them through the woods, and across the creek he would have dramatically INCREASED the chances of being seen.

Because...he could NOT control the random comings and goings of others.

Not the same difference at all...

 

[Jethro4WS]

RBBM
JMO...
AFAIR, the bridge is not part of the actual trail system. It is private property that is still owned by the railroad, although people still walked on it anyway, at least up until mid-February.

There is also an annual event in Delphi that was called the Day After Christmas Walk where the trail to the bridge is walked. It appears it has been done for 15 years. Don't know by how many or how well advertised it was in the area.

 

[Shiressleuth]

With my theory they were off and gone in a matter of minutes. He dramatically DECREASED the chances of being seen.

However, if he had marched them through the woods, and across the creek he would have dramatically INCREASED the chances of being seen.

Because...he could NOT control the random comings and goings of others.

Not the same difference at all...

No he couldn't but he had seen the trail behind him before getting on bridge and could still see noone was behind him on the bridge so he knew he had x number of minutes at least to get them out of sight. Where was the vehicle parked btw with your theory and why was he approaching from the north end of the bridge? Just trying to compare both theories.

 

[MzOpinion8d]

I did find an excellent map that someone posted to Websleuths. I won't copy it here, because I'm not sure that's allowed, but what is interesting to me about the area in which these murders occurred is that the trail these girls were on is so short. It's a mile and 1/2 at best.

And they were dropped off, I think, at the N 300 entrance, which would have put them even closer to the Monon Bridge. So they most likely didn't walk all that far. But they were there an hour before this guy creeps up on them. Is it possible, even with how sparse the trees were that he just stood and waited until they were far enough on the bridge, to where he could isolate them?

That's what it seems like.

And if he did this, where did he enter the trail initially? Someone mentioned the Cemetery--is there an official entrance there?

I have to wonder if anyone not familiar with this park would even know this spot. All the roads near to both of the entrances specifically for this area of the trail are somewhat off the beaten path. Even state road 25 seems like a locally used route, rather than a major thoroughfare.

This may be old news to everyone else, but it almost seems like this guy is a local. I didn't think so before. But that part of the trail is very off the beaten path---or am I wrong about that?

This *is* Websleuths. Why wouldn't you be able to copy it here?

 

[MzOpinion8d]

With my theory they were off and gone in a matter of minutes. He dramatically DECREASED the chances of being seen.

However, if he had marched them through the woods, and across the creek he would have dramatically INCREASED the chances of being seen.

Because...he could NOT control the random comings and goings of others.

Not the same difference at all...

I think the possibility of being caught was part of the thrill for the murderer.

Which leads me to think he also may not care much about being caught.

Who would not care about being caught? Someone planning suicide? Someone already facing a lengthy prison sentence? Someone with a terminal illness?

 

[cluciano63]

Has LE asked about vehicles seen in the area, the way they asked about hitchhikers?

 

[cluciano63]

As far as witness recall...many people reported a Volkswagen Beetle when Ted Bundy was killing women, but the color varied wildly, even though they described certain marks on it, etc. So eyewitness reports are always doubtful, Imo, which makes me worry about the sketch.

 

[gregjrichards]

Has LE asked about vehicles seen in the area, the way they asked about hitchhikers?

No I don't believe they have.

 

[RIP Meagan + Johnny]

I think the possibility of being caught was part of the thrill for the murderer.

Which leads me to think he also may not caire much about being caught.

Who would not care about being caught? Someone planning suicide? Someone already facing a lengthy prison sentence? Someone with a terminal illness?

RBBM
I was just about to post the same thing! I think it was part of his adrenaline rush.
Add "someone with a HUGE ego" to your list of who wouldn't care about getting caught. Feels he's above the law/not going to happen to him.
JMO.

 

[LauranUK]

As far as witness recall...many people reported a Volkswagen Beetle when Ted Bundy was killing women, but the color varied wildly, even though they described certain marks on it, etc. So eyewitness reports are always doubtful, Imo, which makes me worry about the sketch.

This is quite true. Even more so if any of the witnesses had vision problems. Without my glasses I would be a very poor eyewitness. I can see okay. But I can't make out faces clearly enough to identify people.

 

[Deleted member 278]

I think the possibility of being caught was part of the thrill for the murderer.

Which leads me to think he also may not care much about being caught.

Who would not care about being caught? Someone planning suicide? Someone already facing a lengthy prison sentence? Someone with a terminal illness?

He cared about getting caught or he would have killed them on the bridge. He marched them across the creek to avoid getting caught. He killed them there and left them there. He did not remove them from the area, kill them, and then return their bodies to the area. He was afraid of getting caught. The thrill was the kill, not the fear of being caught.

IMO, of course.

 

[JazzTune]

No he couldn't but he had seen the trail behind him before getting on bridge and could still see noone was behind him on the bridge so he knew he had x number of minutes at least to get them out of sight. Where was the vehicle parked btw with your theory and why was he approaching from the north end of the bridge? Just trying to compare both theories.

Thanks for asking, but I think we're just going to have to agree to disagree on this.

I believe getting them quickly off the bridge into a waiting vehicle did not pose near the risk of being seen, as that of marching them through the woods and through the creek.

You disagree. I have a pretty good idea we're not going to convince each other.

Regarding the vehicle, I believe he had his car parked on that private road off the south end of the bridge.

Personally, it is my belief he knew for certain (perhaps even engineered) that the girls were going to be at that precise location on the bridge.

He planned his attack methodically. He left nothing to chance, imo.

Some people have theorized that maybe he entered the bridge on the south end, and then turned around.

I've wondered as well, because that would have lessened the amount of time and distance for him on that rickety bridge.

A distinct advantage for him. Who would want to risk falling, or breaking a limb if you didn't have to?

I see him as minimizing every risk possible.

However, if he did venture all the way across from the north end, that would simply tell me he's been there before, and falling wasn't a big concern.

For him to park his car on the south end and enter the bridge from the north end would not be a big deal for me either.

Would just mean he got there early to get all his ducks in a row...

All my opinion only...

 

[RIP Meagan + Johnny]

He cared about getting caught or he would have killed them on the bridge. He marched them across the creek to avoid getting caught. He killed them there and left them there. He did not remove them from the area, kill them, and then return their bodies to the area. He was afraid of getting caught. The thrill was the kill, not the fear of being caught.

IMO, of course.

JMO...
What if this isn't his "first"?
What if he's escalating his MO?
I could see him getting a thrill, a rush, a high from the fear of being caught.
Or maybe it's the opposite and he WANTS to be caught.
All total speculation.
JMO.

 

[ImnoSherlock]

IIRC the couple weren't seen till 3 p.m. and BG was on south end of bridge at 2.30 p.m. Assuming the crime was over by 3.11 then I don't think the couple can have seen BG. Also the couple were seen under the bridge but we don't know what part of the bridge they were under (north, south or elsewhere?) exactly do we?

I'm not sure where they were.I thought the road only ran under the bridge at one point,supposedly where the old man saw the couple on the road?

 

[HockeyMom330]

Did the witnesses who saw BG on the trails the day the girls were murdered also see the girls? Just wondering if anybody saw them before the abduction murder.

 

[Deleted member 278]

JMO...
What if this isn't his "first"?
What if he's escalating his MO?
I could see him getting a thrill, a rush, a high from the fear of being caught.
Or maybe it's the opposite and he WANTS to be caught.
All total speculation.
JMO.

A potential escalation is frightening of course but so is my theory of this being his first and last and that he had specifically targeted the girls and knew they would be on the bridge.

All total speculation. JMO, of course.

 

[gliving]

I've been trying to find this RG video where I saw the private road and gate but he has so many. Does anyone remember this one and what it was called? If I can't find it it will have to stay MOO and anyway, there is no proof it was padlocked that day or that BG did not have a key. There is a pic of police cars parked on this road opposite the CS after the girls were found so it wasn't locked then or LE had 'unlocked' it.

I remember that video Shiressleuth. I posted a link when we were discussing the blue water bucket for RL's pretty horse. Here's the link to my post but sadly, the video is now private.

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/sh...Delphi-13-Feb-2017-61&p=13421100#post13421100

 

[Sleuthin' n TX]

IMO, to subdue one of two victims, wouldn't you utilize one of the victims? Maybe have one duck tape the other's mouth, after that, zip tie their hands? Once done, he could then duck tape the remaining one's mouth. Very, very sick indeed. Or knife at their throat? Who knows what floated around in this sicko's mind? Twisted, sick threats of God knows what! Apologies for any offence or bluntness. Gruesome BG needs to be caught.

It's bothering me that nobody heard anything.


I can't wrap my head around one aspect of this crime. We don't know COD. We don't know if any weapons at all were involved. We don't know if there was a vehicle used. We don't know if CS is in fact the actual CS or just a disposal site.

Regardless of all of that, whether we knew it or not, one thing I just can't come to terms with is no one hearing anything. Seeing anything we can come up with reasons as to why or why not anything would have been seen. But hearing? Is that spot so isolated that someone screaming for their life would no be heard? How do you keep 2 teenage girls from making a single peep? I don't mean to be graphic here I really don't, but someone had to die first didn't they? It's horrible to think about and makes me sick and i feel terrible for even thinking it.

How do you kill someone in front of another person and they don't then start to scream. Or you yourself start to scream realizing what is coming. What sort of control must you have. This whole crime just, smells funny. Smells seasoned. Practiced. Ugh.

I have my theories, but they are just that. Pure speculation. I just have a hard time with understanding a lot about this case, and it could very well be because we just don't know. But seeing these pictures and with what we do know about time frames...perhaps I need a break from this case. My mind is thoroughly sore from trying to understand.


Moo.

 

[kkdj]

JMO...
What if this isn't his "first"?
What if he's escalating his MO?
I could see him getting a thrill, a rush, a high from the fear of being caught.
Or maybe it's the opposite and he WANTS to be caught.
All total speculation.
JMO.

It keeps going thru my mind that if this is same killer that killed the Illinois cousins, maybe he had felt frustrated how long it took to find their bodies, so he made sure these two young girls would be found fast so he intentionally left them where they would be. Part of his thrill might be watching the public horror. Just a thought.