IN - Abigail Williams, 13, & Liberty German, 14, Delphi, 13 Feb 2017 #66

[DarkSkink]

If BG was out there stalking with the intent to kill females in broad daylight, why wasn't he more careful about being seen? Since there are more than a few who said they saw him (Holeman interview), he likely saw them, too. Also, the witness who was close enough to know his eyes were not blue.

Murder may not have been the primary motive. If there were no other lone females, and he sees two smaller females he feels he can control, the urge to act and take them may have been a split second decision based solely on opportunity.

It entirely plausible that he knocked one out to deal with only one, struck too hard and accidentally killed her. It's plausible he realized after the fact they have too much information now to be left as witnesses. He may have found the phone, killed them in anger, and mistakenly thought he did enough to destroy the phone.

He's dressed rather generically, with head covering, likely on purpose. On a small hiking path, you have to come to terms with the fact you're going to pass people, male and female. You're hoping for that lone female with enough of a distance between other hikers to see or hear nothing when you act.

 

[rosesfromangels]

Humans are like most mammals. Spring time is mating time, so sexual urges increase.

Weather also improves. More victims are in the outdoors where they are vulnerable than in the cold winter, and they are wearing less clothing.

There are usually logical explanations for statistical blips.

Your good point raises a question I keep going back to. Please note I am not stating facts, just speculation.

I keep thinking about the Perp allegedly crossing the creek with the children.
It was cold-ish that day, and apparently (?) they got wet from the creek. I'm having a hard time imaging depraved acts transpiring out in the cold, when wet. I am taking adrenaline in to consideration, but it still doesn't add up for me.

Then, I am thinking about how, if he did, the Perp would transport the bodies back to the spot where they were found.
Given the density of the brush, this would be no easy task. To me, this infers the Perp has some level of fitness and strength. It suggests heavy manual labor that requires strength. Lifting.

If the children weren't murdered where they were found, where did he take them? It couldn't have been far. A shed, a shack? I'm still struggling with the idea this happened out in the cold, if wet.

Thoughts?

 

[DarkSkink]

In the most recent LE interview LE actually said several witnesses. I think BG was hanging around that day waiting for a suitable victim.

Sent from my SM-G935V using Tapatalk

Yes. I agree.

This also lends itself to the theory he's not local. He wasn't concerned about potentially being recognized, or bumping into someone he knew.

 

[DarkSkink]

Ted Bundy never cared who saw him out stalking...most "witnesses" got descriptions wrong even to the color of his VW.

He was operating in a completely different era. Phones were attached to cords in your home, and information was spread at 6pm every day if you bothered to watch the news on TV. Pictures cost money and time to develop, and no one carried cameras unless there was reason too.

Police also didn't have most of the scientific tools they have today, nor did they have the communication network or databases they do now. If you wanted to compare cases, it would have to be a phone call from one investigator to the other and have a conversation.

As evidenced in this case, the modern serial killer has to be a bit more savvy to get away with it.

 

[terpstra1]

Your good point raises a question I keep going back to. Please note I am not stating facts, just speculation.

I keep thinking about the Perp allegedly crossing the creek with the children.
It was cold-ish that day, and apparently (?) they got wet from the creek. I'm having a hard time imaging depraved acts transpiring out in the cold, when wet. I am taking adrenaline in to consideration, but it still doesn't add up for me.

Then, I am thinking about how, if he did, the Perp would transport the bodies back to the spot where they were found.
Given the density of the brush, this would be no easy task. To me, this infers the Perp has some level of fitness and strength. It suggests heavy manual labor that requires strength. Lifting.

If the children weren't murdered where they were found, where did he take them? It couldn't have been far. A shed, a shack? I'm still struggling with the idea this happened out in the cold, if wet.

Thoughts?

From the video I saw taken by a local tv station on the 14th and other video taken by a individual a few days later the creek was only ankle deep across from the cs. Also a large area in the center of the creek was dry. It's possible they only got their feet wet.

I also believe it would have been extremely difficult to move them. Imo he didn't.



Sent from my SM-G935V using Tapatalk

 

[DarkSkink]

It makes no sense to me that he'd follow them ALL the way across the bridge if he was hanging around and waiting for a suitable victim. He couldn't control: whether or not other people crossed the bridge, whether people were under the bridge (we know there's an active area under that bridge for people to play a certain game), people entering the area from the private drives/road below the bridge, etc. If he was trolling, wouldn't it make more sense for him to grab them closer to the trail head/parking area or force them down the path at the NW end of the bridge or into a waiting car than to walk across it?

He had to have known that even if the girls did try to flee towards the home on the SE end that they would be unsuccessful in obtaining help due to the occupants being snowbirds.

What's to say he wasn't walking in the other direction when he came upon them, and then turned around after they passed each other? That may be part of what set off the girls' suspicions.

Was he aware of the home? Once committed, would he have cared? He somehow got them to comply to go down the hill, so it's likely he was confident they would comply from that point on.

 

[DarkSkink]

Your good point raises a question I keep going back to. Please note I am not stating facts, just speculation.

I keep thinking about the Perp allegedly crossing the creek with the children.
It was cold-ish that day, and apparently (?) they got wet from the creek. I'm having a hard time imaging depraved acts transpiring out in the cold, when wet. I am taking adrenaline in to consideration, but it still doesn't add up for me.

Then, I am thinking about how, if he did, the Perp would transport the bodies back to the spot where they were found.
Given the density of the brush, this would be no easy task. To me, this infers the Perp has some level of fitness and strength. It suggests heavy manual labor that requires strength. Lifting.

If the children weren't murdered where they were found, where did he take them? It couldn't have been far. A shed, a shack? I'm still struggling with the idea this happened out in the cold, if wet.

Thoughts?

It hints there might have been more than one perp.

It also hints the perp(s) didn't really know the area well and made it up as he/they went.

 

[terpstra1]

He was operating in a completely different era. Phones were attached to cords in your home, and information was spread at 6pm every day if you bothered to watch the news on TV. Pictures cost money and time to develop, and no one carried cameras unless there was reason too.

Police also didn't have most of the scientific tools they have today, nor did they have the communication network or databases they do now. If you wanted to compare cases, it would have to be a phone call from one investigator to the other and have a conversation.

As evidenced in this case, the modern serial killer has to be a bit more savvy to get away with it.

Important also is the fact homes and businesses didn't have security video. I imagine LE started collecting videos through out the area on the 14th.

Sent from my SM-G935V using Tapatalk

 

[DarkSkink]

Important also is the fact homes and businesses didn't have security video. I imagine LE started collecting videos through out the area on the 14th.

Sent from my SM-G935V using Tapatalk

I would think LE would have collected security videos from the obvious sources. Gas stations, fast food, roads in and out etc. You can Google Street View the areas to see if there are any obvious cameras.

Unfortunately, the path is so close to highway 25, it's entirely likely the perp came in on the highway, then left on the highway and was long out of the area before any search started.

 

[Spellbound]

He wasn't controlling who was where and when, I agree, but he would have been able to scout out the area and thus would have known who was when and where pending on his own whereabouts.

When I posted that map showing the straight part of the trails, these were strategic checkpoints enabling anyone to quickly know, who is behind you. When the girls were dropped off, he may have been on his "second" walk-around and have spotted them, or he may have even planned to leave due to lack of opportunity. Once he saw his prey, he also saw his opportunity.

All he had to do in the end is hurrying over the bridge towards the girls. While hustling over the rails, he also had a last good look at his surroundings. That may be one of the reasons he is looking down.

IMO this went over rather quickly - all of it.

-Nin

Nin, no matter how he managed to pull this off, does it seem to you he must have had access to a vehicle or was staying somewhere nearby to where he could easily escape if he needed/wanted? Most of this time I have thought it possible he could have walked from town or from the cemetery side from somewhere. But now I am thinking of whether he had any thoughts of an escape if his deed went awry for any reason.

I do think he was there long enough before encountering the girls to know how many people would be around and if he could pull this off (assuming it was planned, if only since he first saw the girls there). But was he smart enough to plan ahead to cover his tracks....

 

[cluciano63]

I don't think the perp is "savvy" at all, just lucky. He left behind a phone that captured his image and voice...I doubt this was intentional. Jmo

 

[Rossymom]

What is the " certain game" ppl play under the bridge? Are they able to park vehicles down under the bridge when they "play"? tia

There is a geocache hidden under or near the bridge.

 

[mrtnira]

If this guy is ever caught, I doubt the police will get a clearly factual debriefing / interview from him. My suspicion is that he will blame the victims, obfuscate, and omit key elements of information to continue the pain and to frustrate authority.

My assumption is that if high-control need is a factor of his personality, it won't stop when he gets arrested. That need to control will express itself against the authority structure, regardless.

 

[teeandcee]

I've never believed the guy who killed Natalee Holliday killed again on THAT anniversary.

I never believed it was coincidence is what I meant. Duh.

 

[terpstra1]

I would think LE would have collected security videos from the obvious sources. Gas stations, fast food, roads in and out etc. You can Google Street View the areas to see if there are any obvious cameras.

Unfortunately, the path is so close to highway 25, it's entirely likely the perp came in on the highway, then left on the highway and was long out of the area before any search started.

I would hope they checked gas station/ mini Mart videos along the highways.

Sent from my SM-G935V using Tapatalk

 

[teeandcee]

You know, Ted Bundy is a perfect example of the addiction and risk taking. One weekend day he took two victims from the same busy and crowded park (at separate times). This was also the day the local police were having some big shindig at the same park, so the place was swarming with LE. There's a pic of Ted in his car there, and people and cars are everywhere. The risk was enormous, and I think he got off on it, and had to reexperience by taking the second girl that day. I do believe Abby and Liberty's killer is similar.

 

[FrostedGlass]

Murder may not have been the primary motive. If there were no other lone females, and he sees two smaller females he feels he can control, the urge to act and take them may have been a split second decision based solely on opportunity.

It entirely plausible that he knocked one out to deal with only one, struck too hard and accidentally killed her. It's plausible he realized after the fact they have too much information now to be left as witnesses. He may have found the phone, killed them in anger, and mistakenly thought he did enough to destroy the phone.

He's dressed rather generically, with head covering, likely on purpose. On a small hiking path, you have to come to terms with the fact you're going to pass people, male and female. You're hoping for that lone female with enough of a distance between other hikers to see or hear nothing when you act.

So you think he was intending to just rape someone and turn her loose afterward? I hadn't thought about that.

 

[DarkSkink]

I don't think the perp is "savvy" at all, just lucky. He left behind a phone that captured his image and voice...I doubt this was intentional. Jmo

That was my point. You have to be much more savvy to not be seen and get away with it now than in Ted Bundy's time, so it's tough to draw any comparison. Had Bundy been recorded picking up hitchikers on a dash cam, maybe he is caught much much sooner.

This man was caught on camera. Not savvy. However, after you kill two people and need to flee quickly, if you find the victim's cell phone, what do you do?

Do you take it with you? What if you get pulled over or your car is searched in a roadblock? You're busted.

Do you throw it out your car window 10 miles down the road? When it's found, then they know which direction you left in.

Do you take it home? What if you accidentally power it up?

Do you stop and burn it and smash it and try to obliterate it? Then perhaps you're seen after everyone is on alert because the victims were found.

When you have mere minutes to make that decision, what do you do?

Ted Bundy never had to worry about anything like this. His victims could have selfied and posted it to Facebook as soon as they got in the car.

 

[teeandcee]

You're not factoring in human male sexual urges. It's not always on. He is likely there strictly to find a victim. The urge is strong so he hunts.

He doesn't appear to be an avid hiker.

You lost me on the sexual urges thing. What do you mean?

 

[No it's not]

nah. it's obviously something more. They said it's very complex and involved.

Agree. Since you are around, you mentioned in the last video the very light area on the right side, the pocket area, of BG may be his hand. Could that light area also be 2 parts?

One of the two BG images (jpg) initially published by ISP:

Here is the specific area of interest:

I lowered the contrast in that area and one can see how the white area seems divided into 2 parts. At least that's how it looks to me:

Perhaps we see his hand/skin and part of a trim of some kind? I thought early on it may be a watch. This image was solely processed with topaz labs and I was quite surprised about the result:

I understand, that things may not always be, what they seem and am open for suggestions.

That trim of some kind, could it be part of a leather coin pocket or part of a leather tool pocket, something like this?

Or perhaps BG is pulling something out of his pocket and the second shiny area may be part of just that?

What are your thoughts? Thank you for the all videos you are making in this case. Excellent work!

-Nin