IN - Abigail Williams, 13, & Liberty German, 14, Delphi, 13 Feb 2017 #83

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Logically, this thread is for Abby Williams and Libby German. Why would we be allowed, or even want, to discuss matters not pertaining directly to their murders?

Tricia has warned us time and time again not to select strangers to accuse of their heinous murders. We cannot just go to the County Jail roster and begin posting about the incarcerated here and posting mugshots.

This is highly critical regarding a successful prosecution of the accurate BG. Let's not blow it for Abby and Libby.
AFAIK nobody went and asked or even posted a mugshot. We held off discussing it. We have been told if we want to post about an RSO to ask permission first. This was not an RSO but was a perp being charged for sex offences against an underage girl, so it follows there could be a connection IMO. Now we have been asked not to discuss it. So what about RSO's? Can they still be discussed after requesting permission? I just want to know where this investigation stands. I don't want to discuss the Iowa similarities or new advances in DNA. If we cannot discuss or ask permission to discuss particular perps then what can be discussed? If we cannot post links to LE or case details from public arrest records, then show me in TOS where it says that please.
 
People who want to sleuth public records, news articles, ancestry, and the like would be extremely useful in the Unidentified and Missing forums. There are hundreds of remains of unknown people and thousands missing and they all need our help to get home.

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People who want to sleuth public records, news articles, ancestry, and the like would be extremely useful in the Unidentified and Missing forums. There are hundreds of remains of unknown people and thousands missing and they all need our help to get home.

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Indeed. Additionally, some other victims could be related to our girls here, moo.
 
Hmm, personally can't see that myself. There was a house just down the driveway there, and if no one was home, outbuildings and farm fields and more houses to run for. Crossing a creek is risky, not known how deep it is, and nothing visible on the other side.
Well fact is they got across there somehow-question is how?
 
I hope the FBI used the M-Vac Forensic DNA Collection System. Pretty impressive and not commonly utilized yet:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bBrRm-detJQ&feature=youtu.be&list=PLQYOONY6V2gTDPbyrRx3h_DgLBDO6nUOT

And

http://m-vac.com/

-Nin
[h=1][/h]

I just watched this and wow, fascinating and very exciting as it could bring life to so many cold cases...and represent better chances for future cases too. Thanks for sharing, NIN.


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I am thinking/hoping the newly assigned fresh eyes on the case could be helpful.
 
Skilled, experienced predator...

( "There's a reason he's gotten away with it for so long..."

-Foxfire )

Eta: "There's a reason for the seasons."

-Foxfire )
 
I just watched this and wow, fascinating and very exciting as it could bring life to so many cold cases...and represent better chances for future cases too. Thanks for sharing, NIN.


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Fascinating for sure and very hopeful. Thanks NIN.
 
Hello Everyone,

I really want this killer caught. And I want to be able to check in here and see the details communicated in a responsible way. Please adhere to the rules so we can still keep this small support for the girls and their families going to help to keep the case alive.

I think these following things are important:

I feel LE slowed their investigation down unintetionally. Its sad, but understandable because LE had a small safe town mindset.

1.LE called off the search the night of their disappearance -- and as a result they possibly lost up to12 hours lead on the suspect due to that.
2. LE threatened publicly that if they came across any criminality in their searches the would prosecute those people i.e. no deals for info.
3. They formed a theory that there was a close family member of the murderer who could and would recognize the BG photo and voice recording and that this person was still alive, and would come forward.

LE has said now said they going to rework old tips -- and possilbly this will turn up something. I wish them luck. And who knows what they have in their pipeline maybe the answer is in there.

If I was LE - I would have and still would concentrate on every entrance/exit to the bridge area.

Walking out of area tyring to follow the decision path of a criminal getting away cleanly -- by selecting the right path at each decision point.

The guy on the bridge doesn't look like he would seek to hike a rough mile out the side of a rural road to 421 or IP, nor follow the old up pulled train tracks south to 421. But he could have for sure.
The land is flat and hiding a parked car is only going to be possible in some places-- were all the tire tracks on those places should have been cast for tire prints.

The guy on the bridge looked pretty clean - I don't see wrinkles in his pants from several hours of truck, car or motorcycle driving.

He looks like he just walked away for a break from a standing job.
His body looks like a man who works as machinist, shop supervisor, retail anything - like auto parts, or a mail room. His voice sounds like a supervisor with experience.
IMO I don't think he looks like a farmer or the farm industry, more mechanical, less like feed or irrigation, more like motorcycle sales or administrative in any industry. He does not look homeless to me.

Some say the BG is looking down as he is walking, IMO he is looking right at Libby through the trees where she took stood or crouched taking the picture of him from the south end of the bridge.
IMO His head is oriented down to keep track of the ties, but his eye is rotated up, looking at her directly and vicously at her from under his hat brim. He has a dark type beard, which is clean shaven - with a little beard around his mouth. A heavy look.

The jacket he is wearing is a very common type in the area, and is worn by the local amish as a standard type jacket when working outside. Blue windbreaker coach type thin windbreaker material.

Where would that man walk after killng? I feel the answer to his identity is there.No one knows why he was there, or when he got there -- but there a pretty good certainty he left at around 3pm. That a fact that I think deserves full resource to exploit.

Did he go back on the path back to the parking area?
IMHO To me, it seems unlikely that someone would suddenly commit a crime of opportunity if their car was sitting parked at the entrance to the trail, and even less so would they parke there if they were planning a crime of any type.
LE has identified no vehicle to be on the look out for, and there were people that would have seen the cars parked at that time.

That leaves S, N, and E. I hope every door on every way to exit knocked on and people asked what they could remember about anything that afternoon.

Where did he go? To Indianapolis, Chicago or Detroit? Given that choice and his look - I would guess Indanapolis.
Where did he go if to a smaller town? Lafayette, Kokomo, Monticello, Frankfort. IMHO IMHO Due to jacket and pants I would guess Monticello area, its the clean jeans --as in there is quite a bit of support service work that is clean on the Tippecanoe, such as outboard boat sales, and etc.

Did LE review every camera in every gas station, fast food or convenience story on every road radiating from Delphi ? - His stance in that footage might reveal a lead.

Has LE literally put all their faith in a person telling them who the murderer is, since the DNA isnt turning up a suspect?

But also IMHO the DNA doublespeak from LE means to me there is a problem there. DNA evidence can be lost, and misidentified or be of poor quality (the Superbike murders in Chesnee show the problem. In that case of multiple murders the DNA was mixed up at the CS by the collecting officer and this caused LE to pursue a family member of one other victims, thinking she was having an affair with her husbands coworker)

If I am wrong, and they have good sample of the murderers DNA then it seems he has no serious or recent criminal record - meaning gets away with things without being arrested.

Still where did he go? He did not fly, he walked or rode in some way. IMO he exited to the south, east or north.

IMO The ways he possibly left:

Hitchhiked a ride with a stranger
Used a bus or train https://www.chicagorailfan.com/greyhrin.html
Used local bus of some type -
Was picked up by a friend family with a car/motorcycle or truck
Stole a car/motorcycle or truck and use it for the day
Borrowed a car/motorcycle or truck
Rented a car/motorcycle or truck
Used his own car/motorcycle or truck parked at a distance - in a hidden or remote place.

Thank you so much for this wonderful post.

I would trim it down for my reply, but there is nothing I see should be for my reply.


CRIME OF OPPORTUNITY: Yes, I think that makes the most sense. He was there. How long beforehand is uncertain, and I do think he may have been camping out, or huddling down, in the area a while, perhaps days, before the attack. He stalked them, no doubt, but from where I don’t know. He knew they were dropped off and everything from then on could be he went under the bridge and they came along, or he followed them across it.

THE CLOTHES: A big jacket over baggy jeans. Seems like something easy to put on over longjohns. Not sure about whether any of the clothes look fresh at all.

HOW HE GOT OUT OF THERE: He may have been hanging about, even as the search was goingon, perhaps blending in, perhaps watching, likely hiding. He could have left the scene much later than most would think possible.

WHERE DID HE GO? My guess would be he got as far away as his
means could allow him. I doubt he has a support system to transport him too far away.

DNA: It does seem confusing from various statements made to the media if they have BG’s DNA. If they don’t, this crime is going to so hard to prosecute.

SECURITY CAMERA FOOTAGE: No doubt convenience stores’ cameras in the area were examined, and nothing found, even stores potentially visited by the girls before going to the trail. Nothing useful appears to have come from that, which is more evidence the girls were spotted by BG once they got there.

WHERE IS BG’S EYE GAZE IN THE PHOTOS? I truly think he was trailing them, about to attack, but watching his feet cross the tresses at the same time.

ENTRANCE/EXIT: He must’ve known about this place, somehow, and in some way. If he was lurking about, he must’ve found it a place he could do so. He had to be familiar- I guess that’s one point most would agree.
 
Logically, this thread is for Abby Williams and Libby German. Why would we be allowed, or even want, to discuss matters not pertaining directly to their murders?

Tricia has warned us time and time again not to select strangers to accuse of their heinous murders. We cannot just go to the County Jail roster and begin posting about the incarcerated here and posting mugshots.

This is highly critical regarding a successful prosecution of the accurate BG. Let's not blow it for Abby and Libby.
If we see someone charged with murder show up in Mcleland's Mycase public record then we would know that was the Delphi case because there are no other outstanding murders. I am therefore keeping my eye on all his cases.
 
If we see someone charged with murder show up in Mcleland's Mycase public record then we would know that was the Delphi case because there are no other outstanding murders. I am therefore keeping my eye on all his cases.

[FONT=&quot]Isn't McLeland also handling the Flora murders?[/FONT]
 
[FONT=&quot]Isn't McLeland also handling the Flora murders?[/FONT]
I don't think so as that is arson so I am unsure how arsons are charged. There may be a special prosecutor. I would be interested in any murder being charged tbh.
 
I don't think so as that is arson so I am unsure how arsons are charged. There may be a special prosecutor. I would be interested in any murder being charged tbh.

From what I'm seeing with other unrelated cases in Indiana the charges would be Murder and Arson so if we see a case with both we'll pretty much know. Not seeing any hint of a special prosecutor.

I do agree any murder charges by McLeland will be of interest.

moo
 
Is it ok to post about Lyric and Lizzie's case in reference? Or is that a no-no?

Far as I know it is fine -- I posted Otto's list of possible similarities a couple of times and those posts are still here.

moo
 
Far as I know it is fine -- I posted Otto's list of possible similarities a couple of times and those posts are still here.

moo

Thanks Jax... I don't wish to disturb anyone who says the cases are not related. Don't want anyone to get angry. So if someone can post the quote from LE that says that possibility is definitely ruled out, I'd really appreciate it. I'll refrain from posting until then.
 
AFAIK nobody went and asked or even posted a mugshot. We held off discussing it. We have been told if we want to post about an RSO to ask permission first. This was not an RSO but was a perp being charged for sex offences against an underage girl, so it follows there could be a connection IMO. Now we have been asked not to discuss it. So what about RSO's? Can they still be discussed after requesting permission? I just want to know where this investigation stands. I don't want to discuss the Iowa similarities or new advances in DNA. If we cannot discuss or ask permission to discuss particular perps then what can be discussed? If we cannot post links to LE or case details from public arrest records, then show me in TOS where it says that please.

Why does it follow that there could be a connection when we don't know if Libby and Abby were sexually accosted? LE surely hasn't shared that bit of information.

Don't get angry with me because of TOS. The TOS rules were established long before WS knew me. Shire, no one knows how badly I want that BG caught but at the same time, I want to abide by TOS and not fudge one thing that could possibly make the BG run to another country without extradition laws to the states.

Neither you nor I can post a MSM link about the criminal case because they do not exist. I lack understanding in why anyone wants to prosecute an innocent man, one who is not even a POI yet, on the threads, because that is what he is in today's court records.

But, let's see, some members on this forum accused RL for months and then moved on to DN. So, is there an attempt to find another perp to crucify only without any MSM leads to them? I hope not.
 
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