In case you missed it. Nancy Grace addresses the Burke Ramsey “break.”

[Tadpole12]

Without it, all you have is a dead girl in her own house with sexual injuries. - SD


hmmm.

I've always considered, maybe that's what the Ramseys found that night, and PR rather than perp, is the protector and the fall guy.

 

[BBB167893]

Pardon me, but I should rephrase this:

For what it's worth, HOTYH, on the face of it, I follow you. BUT, and this is crucial as I've often said, without the "kidnapping rant" as you call it, there's no explanation for WHY JB was killed and WHO did it. Without it, all you have is a dead girl in her own house with sexual injuries. Ask Ron Walker sometime if he thinks that would fool LE.

It would do better to read:

For what it's worth, HOTYH, on the face of it, I follow you. BUT, and this is crucial as I've often said, without the "kidnapping rant" as you call it, there's no explanation for WHY JB was killed and WHO did it. Without it, all you have is a dead girl in her own house with sexual injuries. Ask Ron Walker sometime who LE would have looked at first. The RN gives the Rs any number of wildcard explanations AND the ability to claim victimhood. "Why are you cops bothering us. THIS person said they did it. Why aren't you looking for them?"

 

[DeeDee249]

Without it, all you have is a dead girl in her own house with sexual injuries. - SD


hmmm.

I've always considered, maybe that's what the Ramseys found that night, and PR rather than perp, is the protector and the fall guy.

If that is so, and it very well may be so, you have to ask who she took the fall for. I really don't think she'd do that for a husband who had sexually molested and then killed their daughter. Not without there being something that could be pointed back at her. As far as I am concerned, a mother would take a fall like that for one person- her child.

 

[Ames]

Mind if I show this to madeleine, Ames?

Nope, I sure don't! Share it with anybody that wonders why Patsy would leave JB's body in the home, instead of placing it outside somewhere.

 

[Ames]

[/b]

My bold

If this SFF wanted the extra attention and publicity, then they sure got it. Years of attention and publicity. So why didn't or haven't they come forward to claim this deed if thats what they were after? No one, not the R's, not Smit, not any LE agency ever believed that a SFF ever wrote the RN. And you think this theory is a "less crazy" explanation for the paradox? IMO that theory is the "most crazy" out of all that I have heard to date.

Yep, even JR said that it was "an inside job"....and he should know. It was "an inside job" alright.

 

[Holdontoyourhat]

OK maybe I'll accept there's no SFF. I'm just curious, though, how was SFF ruled out? Scientifically, statistically, specific evidence, or what?

Was it because the ransom note specifically stated SFF and we're too smart to believe that silly bogus unprofessional ridiculous amateurish ransom note? Maybe if the ransom note said 'we are NOT sff' then someone would believe it?

Sorry but I missed the whole rationale behind excluding SFF. I'm sure it was both thorough and poignant.

OK Zak anytime you're ready I had these questions...

 

[Tadpole12]

If that is so, and it very well may be so, you have to ask who she took the fall for. I really don't think she'd do that for a husband who had sexually molested and then killed their daughter. Not without there being something that could be pointed back at her. As far as I am concerned, a mother would take a fall like that for one person- her child.

Yes DeeDee.

What parents would do for their children, anything and everything.
Just an avenue I've never abandoned. JR's odd remark to JAR, about lots of people being at their home that nite, sticks in my memory.

 

[eileenhawkeye]

Yes DeeDee.

What parents would do for their children, anything and everything.
Just an avenue I've never abandoned. JR's odd remark to JAR, about lots of people being at their home that nite, sticks in my memory.

I have never heard that before and I am very curious about it. John said there were a lot of people in the house on 12/25? Do you have the exact quote?

 

[Tadpole12]

hey EH,

no not an exact quote, I've been quote hunting and rereading bits and pieces, 'facts' that have always left me hanging. When I stumble upon the quote, I'll post it.

 

[KoldKase]

Just an FYI, which most of you already know: this ransom note staged to mislead investigators was not the first time this was done in the annals of crime. Apparently when some people find themselves with an unexplained death and a body they can't get rid of safely for fear of getting caught, staging an intruder is rather common.

I saw a former FBI agent list of 4 things stagers do in that situation, taken from actual crimes. It's been a while, but one thing I remember is creating an entry and exit for the "intruder" : in through "broken window"; exit through "broken window" on suitcase.

Another thing it's good to keep in mind: there was a time issue. Tic toc tic toc. Early that morning, the Ramseys were supposed to be at the airport ready to fly to Michigan. They had to meet the older children, as well. That created a huge problem in terms of the staging, I believe. JMO

One more thing that doesn't get discussed much because it revolves around what didn't show up in evidence: the blank Dec. 96 phone record for a cell phone that Patsy later claimed was "lost." Not turned over until a year later, it had been active until that month; with no subpoena for any of the Ramsey's phones (thanks, traitors Alex Hunter and Mary Lacy), no reported record if the phone was used later, it's very suspicious. We do know from two sources that phone calls were made from the Ramsey's cell phones the morning of the murder: LE borrowed the Ramsey's phones because LE's batteries were dead--they said; John Ramsey stated in an interview that LE used their phonese that morning, as well.

Add in that Patsy's story about that "lost" phone is as fake as her story about the "Bloomies in the drawer," and you wonder if they made some phone calls that morning. I would be very surprised if LE didn't look at their call list on the phones when they "borrowed" them. I'm guessing, as I don't even know if cell phones in 96 had a call list. But if they did, and LE saw phone calls made or received in the hours the Ramseys claimed they were asleep, that would explain a whole lot. Obviously, without subpoena's, that info would not be admitted as evidence, but it would have caught the Ramseys in a huge lie PDQ.

Just some wondering thoughts.

 

[Linda7NJ]

hey EH,

no not an exact quote, I've been quote hunting and rereading bits and pieces, 'facts' that have always left me hanging. When I stumble upon the quote, I'll post it.

I don't know the exact quote either, so I will paraphrase. It was something like, "there were lots of people there at 3AM" I believe he said it when on LKL

 

[joeskidbeck]

I don't know the exact quote either, so I will paraphrase. It was something like, "there were lots of people there at 3AM" I believe he said it when on LKL

You are right, Linda. John made this statement when they were on LKL promoting "DOI". It used to be available on ACR. Not sure anymore.

 

[cynic]

You are right, Linda. John made this statement when they were on LKL promoting "DOI". It used to be available on ACR. Not sure anymore.

http://archives.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0003/27/lkl.00.html

 

[BBB167893]

Nope, I sure don't! Share it with anybody that wonders why Patsy would leave JB's body in the home, instead of placing it outside somewhere.

I think they saw it!

 

[sogren]

P. RAMSEY: Yes, I did then see her. My friends were -- I was in the TV room and they were -- I said what is it? What is it? And they kept, you know, holding me, wait, I don't know what it is. One of our friends ran into the room and said, we need an ambulance, tried to dial 911, and I kept screaming, what is it? What is it? And, you know, then in just a couple of minutes, then I walked into the living room.

KING: What did the police say? Did they say anything? Did they...

J. RAMSEY: Well, Linda Arndt was the only police person that was there that I recall.

KING: They all had left? The others had left?

J. RAMSEY: Well, I don't know. There were a lot of people there at 3:00 in the morning.
KING: It was a blur to you?

P. RAMSEY: Yes, it was just a blur.

J. RAMSEY: It was a blur. We had victims' advocates there. We had uniformed police, we had detectives. People were in the kitchen making sandwiches. I mean, it was -- there was -- it was chaos.

BBM

 

[Holdontoyourhat]

OK maybe I'll accept there's no SFF. I'm just curious, though, how was SFF ruled out? Scientifically, statistically, specific evidence, or what?

Was it because the ransom note specifically stated SFF and we're too smart to believe that silly bogus unprofessional ridiculous amateurish ransom note? Maybe if the ransom note said 'we are NOT sff' then someone would believe it?

Sorry but I missed the whole rationale behind excluding SFF. I'm sure it was both thorough and poignant.

I'll look forward to an answer to this question. The valid argument that actually ruled out SFF. Maybe it'll take some time, a little more cognition, and a little less of the triteness.

I can wait.

 

[madeleine]

P. RAMSEY: Yes, I did then see her. My friends were -- I was in the TV room and they were -- I said what is it? What is it? And they kept, you know, holding me, wait, I don't know what it is. One of our friends ran into the room and said, we need an ambulance, tried to dial 911, and I kept screaming, what is it? What is it? And, you know, then in just a couple of minutes, then I walked into the living room.

KING: What did the police say? Did they say anything? Did they...

J. RAMSEY: Well, Linda Arndt was the only police person that was there that I recall.

KING: They all had left? The others had left?

J. RAMSEY: Well, I don't know. There were a lot of people there at 3:00 in the morning.
KING: It was a blur to you?

P. RAMSEY: Yes, it was just a blur.

J. RAMSEY: It was a blur. We had victims' advocates there. We had uniformed police, we had detectives. People were in the kitchen making sandwiches. I mean, it was -- there was -- it was chaos.

BBM

Could be a typo or something,what's even more interesting is what JR alledgedly told Melinda's bf when they arrived,that he found JB around 10,11?

 

[GingBreade]

P. RAMSEY: Yes, I did then see her. My friends were -- I was in the TV room and they were -- I said what is it? What is it? And they kept, you know, holding me, wait, I don't know what it is. One of our friends ran into the room and said, we need an ambulance, tried to dial 911, and I kept screaming, what is it? What is it? And, you know, then in just a couple of minutes, then I walked into the living room.

KING: What did the police say? Did they say anything? Did they...

J. RAMSEY: Well, Linda Arndt was the only police person that was there that I recall.

KING: They all had left? The others had left?

J. RAMSEY: Well, I don't know. There were a lot of people there at 3:00 in the morning.
KING: It was a blur to you?

P. RAMSEY: Yes, it was just a blur.

J. RAMSEY: It was a blur. We had victims' advocates there. We had uniformed police, we had detectives. People were in the kitchen making sandwiches. I mean, it was -- there was -- it was chaos.

BBM

Here is the interview, John says that at 4:00...the thing is, when I watch it I don't really hear "3 am", it seems like he stumbles on something but definitely says "morning". What I have learned is that Transcripts are not always reliable either. Watch and tell me what you think!
[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mSrlPlhUgr8&feature=related[/ame]

 

[madeleine]

I hear "morning" but don't really get what he says before.Listened to it 6 times.It's not clear."There were a lot of people THERE in the morning" ?

 

[claudicici]

...maybe "there early" and the two words kind of blended together?