IN - Lauren Spierer, 20, Bloomington, 03 June 2011 #29

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Actually, it would be hard to get the shoes and phone back to Killroy's considering that they would be closed at that point.

the shoes and phone could be tossed over the fence to the sand. Someone could also walk in to Kilroys after they opened, and place the shoes and phone there and just leave. When you go into these bars, employees aren't rushing over to you to wait on you--if they come over at all. The witness doesn't state what time they found the phone.
 
Can you clarify what you are referring to? I've been through this intersection many times and don't see it.

high on a pole in the north/west corner of the intersection, there is a very plainly visible camera. The camera is pointed exactly south east at the Amethyst House, which is a male oxycodone rehab residential establishment.
 
the shoes and phone could be tossed over the fence to the sand. Someone could also walk in to Kilroys after they opened, and place the shoes and phone there and just leave. When you go into these bars, employees aren't rushing over to you to wait on you--if they come over at all. The witness doesn't state what time they found the phone.

If they were tossed over the fence, I doubt they would have landed so neatly. It would possible even break/damage the phone. Probably would be on camera too. If someone came in and dropped them off at open, they would be on camera.
 
Thanks, bx2 (and BCityBird) for the clarification. What made me wonder is the part of the USA Today article that suggest LS told JW she was going to bed (but then went out). That might suggest a change of feelings (or that she wanted to go out, and he was controlling?), but it's also coming from JW's dad (and JW by extension, I suppose).

Here's the quote: "Alan Wolff said his son, Jesse, was texting him from his house the previous night as a Knicks basketball playoff game was under way on television. He said his son was texting, back and forth, with Spierer that night and that 'she indicated to him that she was home and going to sleep.' He texted to her that 'if you wake up, call me and we'll talk.' Then he went to bed, the father said."

I thought the article in its entirety was horrible. I guess the point the W's were trying to make (above) was that JW didn't know LS' whereabouts so couldn't be involved.

I'm confused the Knicks haven't been around in the playoffs in June since probably 2001. the night LS went missing were the NBA finals which the Dallas Mavs beat the Miami Heat. So AW is clearly wrong or the article is misleading!
 
If they were tossed over the fence, I doubt they would have landed so neatly. It would possible even break/damage the phone. Probably would be on camera too. If someone came in and dropped them off at open, they would be on camera.

I didn't say the shoes and phone landed neatly. Neither did the employee.
Supposedly, they called JW because the phone kept being texted. Where
and what time they found the phone was not mentioned.
What I did say was that no employee mentioned opening up and finding the phone and shoes neatly tucked away together. An employee, or even a customer, could have found the phone and shoes in the sand and brought them inside. Then, a different employee could have been annoyed by the constant texting tone.
And about cameras in bars--they point at what the owners of the bars want to see, not what they want LE to see. Doubtful they have one pointing at the front door. Then LE would see them letting in underagers. The bar I
managed had the cameras pointing at the cash registers, the parking lot,
the office and the bar, specifically where the cash register was. I hope people don't think these bars have the cameras up for their clients safety or for evidence in case someone gets hurt--lolz!!
Maybe this isn't what happened with the phone, but trying to make it seem like it couldn't have happened is ridiculous. Obviously, something unlikely, but still possible, has happened.
 
I'm confused the Knicks haven't been around in the playoffs in June since probably 2001. the night LS went missing were the NBA finals which the Dallas Mavs beat the Miami Heat. So AW is clearly wrong or the article is misleading!

It's been 2 years. They are possibly NYK fans even (or he's most familiar with them). So he probably just misremembers which game his son said he was watching and the default team in his mind could be the Knicks.

I doubt it's anything other than that.
 
As mad as JW's parents made me, I still have to say, I just don't see him being involved. I have only one reason for that and that is the fact that the one thing that will diffuse anger is concern. If JW did hear something he didn't like and headed that way to confront LS, I think no matter how angry, hurt of jealous he was that he would have instantly reverted to "OMG, are you ok, what happened to you?!" as soon as he saw her in the shape she was in.
I'm really beginning to think there was someone else at JR's that we *possibly* don't know about and LS left with -or was taken away by- this person.
 
I'm confused the Knicks haven't been around in the playoffs in June since probably 2001. the night LS went missing were the NBA finals which the Dallas Mavs beat the Miami Heat. So AW is clearly wrong or the article is misleading!
I caught that too but guessed that someone said Mavericks and the listener heard Knicks.
 
As mad as JW's parents made me, I still have to say, I just don't see him being involved. I have only one reason for that and that is the fact that the one thing that will diffuse anger is concern. If JW did hear something he didn't like and headed that way to confront LS, I think no matter how angry, hurt of jealous he was that he would have instantly reverted to "OMG, are you ok, what happened to you?!" as soon as he saw her in the shape she was in.

I don't know about that... If he was a jealous, possessive type who stalked her that night, came across her leaving 5N, or she showed up at his door in that condition after being with other males I could see that being the final straw that breaks the camel's back.

We now have 2 stories attributed to JW and LS that night:
1: They were supposed to get together later but LS never contacted him
2: They had contact earlier and LS told him she was going to bed.

For one thing, if we had two differing stories like that from 5N it would be 10 pages long talking about their changing stories IMHO.

But the other thing is either of those two things (whichever is true) leads to an unhappy boyfriend whenever he learns the truth. The question is "How angry?" Mad enough to snap? People have snapped for far less. So there would be motive. Opportunity we have no idea about... But since the Spierers are now pushing for an LD test it makes me think he must not have an iron clad alibi. Otherwise, why bother with the LD test?

I just don't think, given the scenario, it's safe to assume he would've put his anger aside and went into sympathy mode. It just isn't the same as worrying and getting angry over a GF being late for dinner and then when she shows up she's been in a car accident or something.

In this case he'd be angry because he was lied to, or ignored, and she went out with another guy (or guys) and got messed up (and who knows what else his mind would lead to)... that's more likely to add to the anger IMHO.

Of course it still begs the question: How would JW make her disappear?

None of this is to say 5N is innocent but I've said for a while that from the outside looking in JW does not deserve the benefit of the doubt he has historically gotten.
 
I don't know about that... If he was a jealous, possessive type who stalked her that night, came across her leaving 5N, or she showed up at his door in that condition after being with other males I could see that being the final straw that breaks the camel's back.

We now have 2 stories attributed to JW and LS that night:
1: They were supposed to get together later but LS never contacted him
2: They had contact earlier and LS told him she was going to bed.

For one thing, if we had two differing stories like that from 5N it would be 10 pages long talking about their changing stories IMHO.

But the other thing is either of those two things (whichever is true) leads to an unhappy boyfriend whenever he learns the truth. The question is "How angry?" Mad enough to snap? People have snapped for far less. So there would be motive. Opportunity we have no idea about... But since the Spierers are now pushing for an LD test it makes me think he must not have an iron clad alibi. Otherwise, why bother with the LD test?

I just don't think, given the scenario, it's safe to assume he would've put his anger aside and went into sympathy mode. It just isn't the same as worrying and getting angry over a GF being late for dinner and then when she shows up she's been in a car accident or something.

In this case he'd be angry because he was lied to, or ignored, and she went out with another guy (or guys) and got messed up (and who knows what else his mind would lead to)... that's more likely to add to the anger IMHO.

Of course it still begs the question: How would JW make her disappear?

None of this is to say 5N is innocent but I've said for a while that from the outside looking in JW does not deserve the benefit of the doubt he has historically gotten.

Not to mention she "made him look bad" in front of his "homies". These AEPIs,
or as they are nicknamed, APES, live up to this monniker. They are some of the most spoiled, entitled, and rude frat guys on campus and they have this rich, white gangsta pathos that just doesn't work at all. I have worked with them, and their sexist, bros before hoes attitudes are disgusting. I heard one guy bragging to another bro that he "fell asleep on top of another 'one' again," and then started going into explicit detail which I didn't catch.
They play the filthiest rap/hip hop music you've ever heard in front of their girlfriends/dates. There's raunchy music, which is pretty mainstream now, and then there's just plain nasty, filthy and degrading music, this latter is the type they play in front of the girls. This is to let them know their place?
They were kicked off campus, not sure if they're back on, but they are definitely organized off-campus, with events, etc. Some of the charges were of course dealing and illegal consumption of drugs/alcohol but also drugging.
Drugging will get you kicked off campus even if it takes alot of time, and it is a felony. drugging of course being giving someone something unbeknownst
to them, whether as a joke or to then commit a crime, doesn't matter.
I know my story about the drugged marshmallows was deleted because I admitted taking one. But believe me, most of the reason was to see just what
these type of things are. Now, I tell these young people I work with to never eat or drink anything given to them out of context, especially cookies, candy--hard candy/suckers or gummy type candies; and the nefarious marshmallows, fudge, caramels. Be suspicious of any marshmallow candies!!
And this will insult the great bartenders and kind waitstaff everywhere, but there are some evil, jaded people working these bars. Do not trust the bouncers or any of the staff unless you know them personally. If you are a student, don't think for one minute they appreciate you and sincerely want to help you. They will get you drunk and push you out the door in a heart beat. Some of them will steal your chargecards. And everything else you leave behind. And, I think it is safe to say that they will lie to protect anyone
they like who hasn't done anything to them, i.e., backstabbed them, or, they will lie to protect their drug dealer who is also probably a regular customer they would appreciate much more than the students.
Now, I want to apologize to all the wonderful and kind bartenders and waiters and the few good bouncers in Bloomington, you are a very special group and the stories of how you have helped people and gave great service abound.
 
Not to mention she "made him look bad" in front of his "homies". These AEPIs,
or as they are nicknamed, APES, live up to this monniker. They are some of the most spoiled, entitled, and rude frat guys on campus. I have worked with them, and their sexist, bros before hoes attitudes are disgusting. I heard one guy bragging to another bro that he "fell asleep on top of another 'one' again," and then started going into explicit detail which I didn't catch
They were kicked off campus, not sure if they're back on, but they are definitely organized off-campus, with events, etc. Some of the charges were of course dealing and illegal consumption of drugs/alcohol but also drugging.
Drugging will get you kicked off campus even if it takes alot of time, and it is a felony. drugging of course being giving someone something unbeknownst
to them, whether as a joke or to then commit a crime, doesn't matter.
I know my story about the drugged marshmallows was deleted because I admitted taking one. But believe me, most of the reason was to see just what
these type of things are. Now, I tell these young people I work with to never eat or drink anything given to them out of context, especially cookies, candy--hard candy/suckers or gummy type candies; and the nefarious marshmallows, fudge, caramels. Be suspicious of any marshmallow candies!!
And this will insult the great bartenders and kind waitstaff everywhere, but there are some evil, jaded people working these bars. Do not trust the bouncers or any of the staff unless you know them personally. If you are a student, don't think for one minute they appreciate you and sincerely want to help you. They will get you drunk and push you out the door in a heart beat. Some of them will steal your chargecards. And everything else you leave behind.
Now, I want to apologize to all the wonderful and kind bartenders and waiters and the few good bouncers in Bloomington, you are a very special group and the stories of how you have helped people and gave great service abound.

AEPi has had colony status at IU for a few years. I thought that they didn't have a house but there's one pictured on their web page so I guess I was wrong. They go their house back in 2011. There are a number of IU fraternities that don't have houses and have been off-campus longer. I am not sure how IU decides when a fraternity can have a house again.

http://www.iubifc.com/site/organizations/16959?rp=10961
http://www.iuaepi.org/External/Home.aspx?C=57
 
AEPi has had colony status at IU for a few years. I thought that they didn't have a house but there's one pictured on their web page so I guess I was wrong. They go their house back in 2011. There are a number of IU fraternities that don't have houses and have been off-campus longer. I am not sure how IU decides when a fraternity can have a house again.

http://www.iubifc.com/site/organizations/16959?rp=10961
http://www.iuaepi.org/External/Home.aspx?C=57

still a bunch of ******s, lol
 
I want to preface this post by saying that I do not necessarily believe JW is involved with LS's disappearance... to me the spotlight is still on the 5N guys.

...
Previously, in thinking about the JW/LS situation that night (he can't get ahold of her, they never meet up and she is not reachable via cell phone... or if we listen to AW's statements, he thought she was at home asleep) I had thought that if JW did find out through others what LS was up to that night it may have come from ZO&co after the Smallwood confrontation. I have seen posters indicate that ZO&co were not even friends with JW, while others seem to believe they were.

Now, I realize that it could have been almost anyone who could have told JW that LS was stumbling around wasted with CR. CR and LS were out at Kilroy's and also stumbling around the downtown area. Anyone who was out could have seen them, one of these people may have been buds with JW and sent him a text indicating "your girl is totally messed up and this CR guy is all over her.", or even texted a roommate or friend that JW was with at the house voicing concern for Lauren. I don't know much about JW, but if he was involved in dealing drugs (I have seen that allegation on here), then I would imagine he would be somewhat "connected" with the party/drug scene kids who were out that evening. Perhaps someone else who was out that night wanted to let JW know what bad shape Lauren was in.

Of course, I would assume/hope LE would be aware of any such communication.

I do think it is possible that JW was aware prior to the next morning that LS was not "at home asleep". Still don't know if I believe he could have had anything to do with her disappearance. My eye is on JR and the others.

JMO.
 
One more post and then I have to get busy.
I witnessed my friend getting rufied, here's what happened:
It was her birthday so I bought her dinner at a very posh hotel in Indianapolis. After dinner, we went to the equally posh bar. So, here we are in this fancy place, not a Kilroys in a million years. Suddenly, these two guys approach our table, I knew one of them as the manager of another posh
steakhouse down the street. We were friendly acquaintances, but not friends.
They start getting pushy, we weren't interested, but not really repelled.
They wanted to buy us martinis, I didn't want one, but he wouldn't take no for an answer, my friend actually said yes. The guys go up to the bar and orders the martinis and drinks for them, and I see the bartender (female) make two really huge martinis, and then as plain as day I see him lean over them, and right in front of this bartender, sprinkle something from a little packet into our martinis!! I say to my friend, "Hey! I just saw him put something in our drinks! Don't you dare drink it!" Then, my idiot friend tells me I'm just super-paranoid, the bartender is right there, etc. By now I'm livid, with them and her!
They bring the drinks over, and I say there's no way I'm drinking mine, and asked them what he put in them...he also asks am I crazy, why would he do that, etc, etc. To prove a point, my friend swallows almost half her martini and says, see, nothing wrong here. About 15 min. later, she is babbling and
acting very weird. I basically supported her, half-dragging her to the car and asked if she wanted to go to the hospital. She said no, and babbled all the way to her house, where I kept her up for over an hour pouring coffee into her.
Later the next day, I called someone who knew this restaurant manager.
She said at this time, he was being investigated for slipping some GHB to a young girl at a club, also down the street where he worked. So he worked there, and worked the street.
I guess GHB is a growth hormone of some sort that has a mixture of
some sort of psychedelic, downers, but something else that uninhibits you.
I asked my friend why she wouldn't believe me when I said I saw him do it and she said partly my personality, but mainly that the bartender was right there
 
One more post and then I have to get busy.
I witnessed my friend getting rufied, here's what happened:
It was her birthday so I bought her dinner at a very posh hotel in Indianapolis. After dinner, we went to the equally posh bar. So, here we are in this fancy place, not a Kilroys in a million years. Suddenly, these two guys approach our table, I knew one of them as the manager of another posh
steakhouse down the street. We were friendly acquaintances, but not friends.
They start getting pushy, we weren't interested, but not really repelled.
They wanted to buy us martinis, I didn't want one, but he wouldn't take no for an answer, my friend actually said yes. The guys go up to the bar and orders the martinis and drinks for them, and I see the bartender (female) make two really huge martinis, and then as plain as day I see him lean over them, and right in front of this bartender, sprinkle something from a little packet into our martinis!! I say to my friend, "Hey! I just saw him put something in our drinks! Don't you dare drink it!" Then, my idiot friend tells me I'm just super-paranoid, the bartender is right there, etc. By now I'm livid, with them and her!
They bring the drinks over, and I say there's no way I'm drinking mine, and asked them what he put in them...he also asks am I crazy, why would he do that, etc, etc. To prove a point, my friend swallows almost half her martini and says, see, nothing wrong here. About 15 min. later, she is babbling and
acting very weird. I basically supported her, half-dragging her to the car and asked if she wanted to go to the hospital. She said no, and babbled all the way to her house, where I kept her up for over an hour pouring coffee into her.
Later the next day, I called someone who knew this restaurant manager.
She said at this time, he was being investigated for slipping some GHB to a young girl at a club, also down the street where he worked. So he worked there, and worked the street.
I guess GHB is a growth hormone of some sort that has a mixture of
some sort of psychedelic, downers, but something else that uninhibits you.
I asked my friend why she wouldn't believe me when I said I saw him do it and she said partly my personality, but mainly that the bartender was right there

GHB is gamma hydroxy-butyrate. Not a good thing to be taking, particularly mixed with alcohol. It is not a growth hormone. You may be thinking of HGH, human growth hormone.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gamma-Hydroxybutyric_acid
 
GHB is gamma hydroxy-butyrate. Not a good thing to be taking, particularly mixed with alcohol. It is not a growth hormone. You may be thinking of HGH, human growth hormone.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gamma-Hydroxybutyric_acid

thanks for clarification, and I'm sure it was called GHB. Now, as I understood, this is something people take to get high? It was very in about 10-12 years ago, in Bloomington and Indy. It was a "club drug" and I think it sprang from the rave scene into clubs. Never my scene, and I've never seen/taken/had it offered, but heard alot about it.
 
This explains the paradoxical mix of sedative and stimulatory properties of GHB, as well as the so-called "rebound" effect, experienced by individuals using GHB as a sleeping agent, wherein they awake suddenly after several hours of GHB-induced deep sleep. That is to say that, over time, the concentration of GHB in the system decreases below the threshold for significant GABAB receptor activation and activates predominantly the GHB receptor, leading to wakefulness.

thanks again, Ros,

I clicked on the GHB link, and found this^^^ interesting paragraph, because I've heard that klonopin works in a similar way, and some of these other benzos, by blocking inhibitors or receptors that normally would make you pass out when you've had too much to drink, instead you "black out" and then really your subconscious takes over, making you do all kinds of crazy things that you don't remember. The article also says GHB gives you amnesia. Did JR spend
an hour trying to "un-black out" Lauren, and then when she was able to
somewhat walk out, get her out of there so he could go back to bed?

GHB lost its popularity here about ten years ago when several people OD'd and died in a single summer. One was a guy who passed out at his friends, then woke up at about 11 a.m. the next day, complaining about being hung over and sick, drank some water, went back to sleep, and about 2 p.m. they noticed he was dead!

Did an out of town guest bring some back into town that weekend? I hope everyone reads the link about GHB because yes it is a date rape drug, but doesn't knock you out like a rufie. Also, if you keep reading, it does say it's a growth hormone that is abused by some athletes and body builders.

What if CR suddenly woke up from his pass out, and he had Lauren's phone? And it had a bunch of threatening emails from JW to LS like "tell CR I'm going to kill him, beat the #$@% out of him, etc." CR's still fuzzy, but
knows he has to get the phone back to Kilroys. When he goes to CVS the next morning, he drops the phone off at Kilroy's. Maybe the last one to get the phone call from Lauren/JR is one of JW's roomies. He doesn't pick up but wakes JW and tells him he just got a call from JR's, and by then they had received intelligence while watching the game via witnesses that LS was up that way at 5N. He has so far played it cool, can't look like a sap in front of his homies, but this phone call could make him snap, and also maybe he is
worried that something happened to Lauren, maybe she's hurt or someone got busted. He tells the roomie "whatever" but really, lays there seething and worried until he slips out.
Either this roomie tells the police about the unanswered phone call, and leaves out the part about telling JW, or he tells LE he told JW and JW went back to sleep. OR, he told LE that he received the phone call but didn't answer it, never told JW, and JW was asleep all night. OR, he told LE that he received a phone call, didn't answer it, told JW, and he thinks maybe JW left the apt. This would be his word against JW's, especially if other roomies are adamant about him not leaving.
Now, JMO, but suppose an angry, worried JW beelines it over to 5N. He lived around 10th and Grant, so he would either go right down 10th, unlikely, probably wound through the alleys and crossed the street right around the alley after 10th and College, going up College he might see Lauren turning the corner, or she may have turned the corner and then he would confront her.
Realizing she was intoxicated, he may have noticed a slight hickey on her neck and pulled her into the lit walk way to get a better look and may have then grasped her too hard around the neck when he saw the hickey, which made her go into a breathing arrest because she really wasn't that recovered from whatever she and DR, and then CR, snorted. Where did they get this?
Well, JW could have given it to her, and maybe he went in the apt. to get this other drug, and left the coke she had stashed so JR would get the blame, maybe he was the coke dealer? Farfetched I know, JMO, working through possible scenarios.
If this were Castle, another scenario would be that JWs roommate got the call, didn't answer it, and then went out to confront Lauren. By covering for JW, it also seems like he never left.
 
Can anyone confirm that L.E. Was at waffle house at 4:15 ?

Is it reasonable to think LS , in an effort to avoid another drinking ticket, would alter her course home or double back to 5N to avoid squad car at WH.....
 
Can anyone confirm that L.E. Was at waffle house at 4:15 ?

Is it reasonable to think LS , in an effort to avoid another drinking ticket, would alter her course home or double back to 5N to avoid squad car at WH.....

There was also a theory about ex-con(s) who had served time for sex offenses and were employed by Waffle House. The US Marshals allegedly checked out all the SAs in the area. I don't know if that means they were cleared of suspicion, though.
 
If LS went there it would certainly explain JW's avoidance of a LE administered lie detector test. I also have always wondered why JW needed to get the key to LS's apartment from HT if he was simply checking to see if LS was there. If she was there, she could answer the door when he came over. If she wasn't there, she wouldn't answer the door of course but there'd be no reason for JW to enter the apartment. So why the key?

She could have been in there passed out and not able to answer the door.
 
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