James Kolar Video - A Must See!!!!!

[pageantmom]

Ever watch Toddlers and Tiaras?
Some of the dads are supportive of their kid being in pageants, but thats kind of the exception.
Many of the dads don't even know what's going on and just let the wife handle it.
But most of the dads say they don't approve of pageants (for various reasons- the cost involved, the costumes, etc) but they do not stand up to their wife at all, even though they're against it.
Wonder which type JR was. Personally, I would guess the type that is against it but will let his wife have her way.
I cannot imagine doing the pageants when you're spouse is against it..she's BOTH of yours, shouldn't you both make those decisions? :-/

 

[Nom de plume]

True, true. He had to be very aware of what the public would think. That may be why he said he liked talent only. You're right he can't say oh I like the swimsuit part or anything like that.
But it could also be because everything except talent is a yawn fest. I like pageants but it's not fun to sit through a bunch of kids doing the same thing. At least talent is something different.

I doubt that he liked anything but the "sexy" parts. But then again, my thoughts about JR are no secret. :twocents:

 

[UKGuy]

I don't know every photographer obviously. But, I can't imagine that being done. It would be the opposite of helpful for your pageant career.

The only way I can ever see that happening is if you somehow got involved with a photographer who was actually a pedophile doing this for his own sick pleasure and he convinced you that it would be a good idea.

But most pageant photographers are women, and the men are most definitely gay. There's a lot of flamboyantly gay men in the pageant world. Some pageants are run by gay couples. I know some of them and they are the funniest, sweetest guys. Not that women and gay men can't be pedophiles, but I'm just saying as long as I've been in pageants I've never been made to do anything creepy, or seen anyone try to do anything creepy with my child.

When you get photos done, there are a few different kinds. You might get glitz or natural or both, depending on what types of pageants you do. But you mostly need headshots (face only or head and shoulders only) because that's what you use for the photogenic event. Photogenic is in pretty much every pageant, almost always an optional event but you kind of have to enter it because even though it's optional, it's usually part of your scoring for the supreme titles so you kind of have to do it.
Then there are portfolio shots. A lot of pageants have a portfolio contest too. These are full length shots, usually theme photos or set up like a scene- a good example of this is JB standing on a tire swing wearing summer clothes.
I've never seen anything in the way of nude portfolio shots. I can't imagine pageants directors or judges accepting such a photo, or what event it could possibly be judged. The other thing is that you wouldn't be able to print it because you wouldn't be able to let it be publically seen- and usually the portfolio winners photos are printed in the pageant book or program.

As for nude photos helping with modeling...my kid has done a little bit of modeling and acting (not much) but the advice I got from her agent was either don't do pageants, or, pretend you don't do pageants. The two worlds are definitely separate. Legitimate kid's modeling wants normal looking kids who look fresh and natural, not pageant robots with three inches of makeup on. Not that my kid's a robot but thats what the modeling world thinks. Think about kids you see in like a JC Penny catalog for example. They wear makeup but it doesn't look like they do, and they're dressed like regular children.
Pageants are a fun hobby but pageant photos will do nothing to help your modeling career. And I can't imagine nude photos of a child being helpful in the modeling world.

Now, with all that being said, I wouldn't be surprised if someone was taking inappropriate pictures of JB, whether it was her parents or someone they were allowing to do this. I think that just because of various things I've read on this forum as well as the evidence of her being abused.

pageantmom,
There was a collection of JonBenet photographs found dumped in the basement. Patsy was asked if she ever photographed JonBenet down there. I think it was the discovery of those photos that led to the search warrant for child *advertiser censored*, the results of which were redacted.

You make some interesting points about Patsy's choice of pageants and clothing. All of which strengthen my view that Patsy thought this all normal, since her mother had raised her that way too, i.e. pageants led directly to Patsy marrying a budding millionare?


.

 

[pageantmom]

Gee, I did pageants. Where's my millionaire? Lol.
My opinion only, and I'm sure most of you would disagree, but I don't think the pageants themselves were a problem.
I think the problem was what the pageants represented to Patsy. There are plenty of perfectly normal people in pageants...Patsy is not one of them.
I would be very interested to know more of Patsy's parents relationships with their daughters. I suspect Patsy was abused by her mom or dad or some relative. She seemed to have a lot of issues. And of course that in turn affects her relationships with her own husband and children. Wish we had more info about her parents.

 

[IzzyBlanche]

OK, so I finished the book, and I watched this video, and I have one question:

What, for the love of ducks, is the "poon" of a boot?

I googled it and found that "poon" means a type of tree or wood and a whole bunch of other things that made me :blush:.

OK I admit, I didn't really blush, but that's only because I'm a salty old woman who is difficult to shock.

O/T ETA: More confirmation of my earlier statement that this book needed more editing than it received. This should have been questioned before publication.

 

[cynic]

OK, so I finished the book, and I watched this video, and I have one question:

What, for the love of ducks, is the "poon" of a boot?

I googled it and found that "poon" means a type of tree or wood and a whole bunch of other things that made me :blush:.

OK I admit, I didn't really blush, but that's only because I'm a salty old woman who is difficult to shock.

O/T ETA: More confirmation of my earlier statement that this book needed more editing than it received. This should have been questioned before publication.

"The shoe imprint found near JonBenét’s body was the second piece of evidence. Ron Gosage had compiled a list of more than six hundred people who had been in the Ramseys’ house during the six months prior to JonBenét’s death. He had gotten in touch with more than four hundred of those people, and not one of them had ever worn or owned that kind of Hi-Tec hiking shoe. The imprint was of the “poon”—the area on the sole at the heel where the brand name is stamped. The size of shoe couldn’t be determined from the imprint, since the poon is the same size in all shoes, the better to advertise brands."
Perfect Murder, Perfect Town, Lawrence Schiller, page 746

 

[gngr~snap]

I met Patsy's sister Paulette back in 1992.
She married a childhood friend of my husband.
The husband grew up 2 houses away from my inlaws.
I think they still live there...

Anyway, when Paulette had her first baby , a son,
she brought him to the pediatrician I worked for.
I spoke with her often on the phone giving her
"phone nurse" advice.

Whenever she brought her kids in she was usually accompanied
by her Husband's mother. Mrs. Davis.
In fact I never ever saw Mrs. Paugh.
So FWIW it seemed as though she was not THAT close to
her own mother. I don't even remember her mentioning her
parents. Patsy did come in with her once. (after JonBenet had died)
1998 or 99 IIRC.

The Ramsey's were living in the same neighborhood as one of the Doctor's
in our practice as well. In Vinings, just north of Atlanta.

That is all I personally know about any type of relationship with the Paugh's.

 

[pageantmom]

That is VERY interesting. Thanks for the insight into Paulett's relationship with Nedra.
You know, that says a LOT. You should naturally be closer to your own parents. After all they raised you, and theyre yours. Many people have difficulty accepting their in laws and it causes strain in the family.
This is off topic because it's about my own family, but i'll mention it just reminded me of your post:
My dad was wayyyy closer to my mom's mother than he was to his own mother. I always thought that was odd when i was little but i was to young to understand why. As i got older i understood that his mother was an angry, manipulative person who used people and tried to drive wedges between people. My dad hit the mother in law jackpot when he married my mom, because her mother was the sweetest, kindest person on the planet, and became more of a mom figure to him than his real mom had ever been.
He did not cry at all at his mother's funeral but he cried buckets when his mother in law died.
Off topic but I said it because maybe that is how Paulette felt?

 

[midwest mama]

A daughter almost always chooses her mother over a mother-in-law when it comes to things related to her own children. Moms are usually the "go to" first for babysitting, helping with trips to the doctor, shopping, even taken on vacations when there are children who need tending.

Once in a while (as was a case with one of my daughters-in-law), the mother is busy with a career, or her own social circles, and the mother-in-law then becomes your buddy. Nedra was a high power person, and really focused on the two daughters who were pageant princesses. Polly probably never had a close relationship with Nedra, and when she found a mate with a mom she liked, it was the answer for her.

 

[DeeDee249]

"The shoe imprint found near JonBenét’s body was the second piece of evidence. Ron Gosage had compiled a list of more than six hundred people who had been in the Ramseys’ house during the six months prior to JonBenét’s death. He had gotten in touch with more than four hundred of those people, and not one of them had ever worn or owned that kind of Hi-Tec hiking shoe. The imprint was of the “poon”—the area on the sole at the heel where the brand name is stamped. The size of shoe couldn’t be determined from the imprint, since the poon is the same size in all shoes, the better to advertise brands."
Perfect Murder, Perfect Town, Lawrence Schiller, page 746

So again, this contradicts other information that some of the LE in the house that day DID wear that type of shoe. I believe Kolar mentioned this, didn't he?

 

[UKGuy]

"The shoe imprint found near JonBenét’s body was the second piece of evidence. Ron Gosage had compiled a list of more than six hundred people who had been in the Ramseys’ house during the six months prior to JonBenét’s death. He had gotten in touch with more than four hundred of those people, and not one of them had ever worn or owned that kind of Hi-Tec hiking shoe. The imprint was of the “poon”—the area on the sole at the heel where the brand name is stamped. The size of shoe couldn’t be determined from the imprint, since the poon is the same size in all shoes, the better to advertise brands."
Perfect Murder, Perfect Town, Lawrence Schiller, page 746

cynic,
poon who would have thought, a corporate logo!

.

 

[cynic]

cynic,
poon who would have thought, a corporate logo!

Yes, quite appropriate.

 

[cynic]

So again, this contradicts other information that some of the LE in the house that day DID wear that type of shoe. I believe Kolar mentioned this, didn't he?

PMPT was released October 18, 1999 and while Schiller obviously did extensive research, he did not have access to the case file, (at least not directly ) and, of course, Kolar did.

During their initial processing of the home, the Wine Cellar was examined in detail, and investigators noted the imprint of the poon of a boot in some mildew on the floor next to where JonBenét’s body had been concealed. It was from a “Hi-Tec” brand hiking style boot, and there appeared to be another partial boot or shoeprint impression nearby.
The poon of the boot was insufficiently distinguishable for comparison purposes, however. More specifically, there was nothing in the label of the boot impression that would help match it to another boot because of a wear pattern or other irregularity. Its presence in the cellar could only illustrate that at some point in time, perhaps days or months prior to the discovery of JonBenét’s body, someone wearing a Hi-Tec boot had stood in that room.
Foreign Faction: Who really kidnapped JonBenet? Pages 47, 48

Agent Walker had accompanied Sgt. Mason to the basement to inspect the Wine Cellar after the discovery of JonBenét’s body. He had been wearing a pair of Hi-Tec hiking boots at the time, and it was thought that the poon of his boot could have been responsible for the intruder’s footwear impression in the mold of that room.
Though I hadn’t read the reports yet, Trujillo told me that they believed Burke had also owned a pair of Hi-Tec brand hiking boots, and he could have been responsible for the intruder footprint evidence in the Wine Cellar.
BPD investigators had been contacted by a store clerk in Vail who believed Patsy Ramsey had purchased a set of Hi-Tec brand hiking boots before the murder. They had also been told by one of Burke’s playmates that he owned a pair of this brand of boot.
These were significant pieces of information, but didn’t lend themselves to helping investigators identify the exact set of boots responsible for the evidence located in the Wine Cellar. The boots purportedly owned by Burke were never recovered. Moreover, the imprint of the poon of the boot bore no distinguishing wear marks that would have allowed its comparison to any set of boots collected in the investigation.
Foreign Faction: Who really kidnapped JonBenet? Page 227

Burke is also a strong possibility considering the fact that he had recently been in the WC tearing open presents.
I learned, over the course of my inquiry, that it was Burke who had actually been responsible for tearing back the paper of the presents while playing in the basement on Christmas Day, and I wondered why Patsy would claim responsibility for doing this. Patsy had also told investigators that the unwrapped box of Lego toys in the same room was being hidden for Burke’s upcoming January birthday.
Foreign Faction: Who really kidnapped JonBenet? Page 339

Q. We have been provided, and again, one of the sources of this information is confidential grand jury material I can tell you in the question, but we have been provided information from two sources that your son Burke, prior to the murder of your daughter, owned and wore Hi-Tec boots that had a compass on them, which makes them distinctive. Do you recall -- if you don't recall that they actually were Hi-Tec, do you remember Burke having boots that had a compass on the laces?
A. Vaguely. I don't know if they were boots or tennis shoes. My memory is they were tennis shoes, but that is very vague. He had boots that had lights on them and all sorts of different things.
Q. But you do have some recollection that he had some type of footwear that had compasses attached to them?
A. I don't, I don't specifically remember them, but my impression is that he did, in my mind, yeah. But my impression was that they were tennis shoes.
Q. Sneakers?
A. Sneakers. Yeah. Ask Burke if he remembers it. I said, ask Burke, perhaps he -- well, we could certainly ask Burke.
John Ramsey, 2000 Interview

Q. Have you, whether it was before the interview in 1998 or subsequent to the interview in 1998, have you personally made attempts to find possible sources for the Hi-Tec shoe impression?
A. You mean like ask around if anybody had –
Q. Pick up the phone and call some friends, for example.
A. I didn't, no.
Q. Had you at any time, for example, some of the kids, like the Colby kids ever come over, did you ever go and just pick up the phone or walk across the alley and say, do you guys have Hi-Tec shoes? Did you ever do anything like that?
MR. WOOD: You are assuming she may have learned about it at the time she still lived there. She told you she wasn't sure when she first learned that.
THE WITNESS: No, I did not call the Colbys to ask if their children had –
Q. (By Mr. Levin) Whether it was from Boulder or Atlanta?
A. Right.
Q. Okay. Did you sit down and discuss with Burke at any length whether or not he ever had Hi-Tec shoes?
A. No.
Q. Did it cross your mind that he might be the source of that, for the Hi-Tec shoes?
A. No. Because my understanding was that it was an adult footprint. He was nine years old at the time.
Q. Do you know the source of your belief that it was an adult's foot, footprint?
A. Whoever told me about it or wherever I learned it in the first place.
Q. Did you get any details concerning how much of a shoe impression was present?
A. No. It was just a footprint.
Q. Did you take that to, to be a full footprint, and by that I mean like a shoe, a complete shoe impression?
A. That is what I imagined, yes.
Q. And that, whether you were told that directly or you just assumed that, you believe is the source of your belief that it was an adult's shoe?
A. Yes.
Q. You have been asked about whether or not anyone in your family owns Hi-Tec shoes or ever owned Hi-Tec shoes?
A. Yes.
Q. And I am not restating a question, Mr. Wood. And do you recall you said no one ever did?
A. Yes.
…
Q. Do you recall a period of time, prior to 1996, when your son Burke purchased a pair of hiking boots that had compasses on the shoelaces? And if it helps to remember –
A. I can't remember.
Q. Maybe this will help your recollection. They were shoes that were purchased while he was shopping with you in Atlanta.
MR. WOOD: Are you stating that as a fact?
MR. LEVIN: I am stating that as a fact.
Q. (By Mr. Levin) Does that help refresh your recollection as to whether he owned a pair of shoes that had compasses on them?
A. I just can't remember, I bought so many shoes for him.
Q. And again, I will provide, I'll say, I'll say this as a fact to you, that, and maybe this will help refresh your recollection, he thought that -- the shoes were special because they had a compass on them, his only exposure for the most part to compasses had been in the plane and he kind of liked the idea of being able to point them different directions. Do you remember him doing that with the shoes?
A. I can't remember the shoes. I remember he had a compass thing like a watch, but I can't remember about the shoes.
Q. You don't remember him having shoes that you purchased with compasses on them?
MR. WOOD: She will tell you that one more time. Go ahead and tell him, and this will be the third time.
THE WITNESS: I can't remember.
Q. (By Mr. Levin) Okay. Does it jog your memory to know that the shoes with compasses were made by Hi-Tec?
MR. WOOD: Are you stating that as a fact?
MR. LEVIN: Yes. I am stating that as a fact.
THE WITNESS: No, I didn't know that.
Q. (By Mr. Levin) I will state this as a fact. There are two people who have provided us with information, including your son, that he owned Hi-Tec shoes prior to the murder of your daughter.
MR. WOOD: You are stating that Burke Ramsey has told you he owned Hi-Tec shoes?
21 MR. LEVIN: Yes.
MR. WOOD: He used the phrase Hi-Tec?
MR. LEVIN: Yes.
MR. WOOD: When?
MR. LEVIN: I can't, I can't give you the source. I can tell you that I have that information.
MR. WOOD: You said Burke told you.
MR. LEVIN: I can't quote it to you for reasons I am sure, as an attorney, you are aware.
MR. WOOD: Just so it is clear, there is a difference between you saying that somebody said Burke told them and Burke telling you because Burke has been interviewed by you all December of 1996, January of 1997, June of 1998.
Are you saying that it is within those interviews?
MR. LEVIN: No.
MR. WOOD: So he didn't tell you, he told somebody else you are stating as a fact because I don't think you all have talked to him other than those occasions, have you?
MR. KANE: Mr. Wood, we don't want to get into grand jury information.
Okay?
MR. WOOD: Okay.
MR. KANE: Fair enough?
MR. LEVIN: I am sorry, I should have been more direct. I thought you would understand --
Q. (By Mr. Levin) Fleet Junior also says that he (Burke) had Hi-Tec shoes.
…
Q. Okay. Is this the first time that you've heard that Burke says that he had Hi-Tec?
A. Yes, it is.
Q. This is the very first time?
A. Yes.
Q. When you said in your book and then you said at other times too that you didn't own either brand –
MR. WOOD: Hold on. If you have got a reference of the book.
MR. KANE: I'm sorry. Page 232.
MR. WOOD: And then you said at other times, too. Be more specific to it.
MR. KANE: Okay. Well, I will stick to the book.
Q. (By Mr. Kane) But I don't think it is any big secret that you've said that a bunch of times.
16 A. I don't remember –
MR. WOOD: Okay. What is the question?
Q. (By Mr. Kane) When you made that statement in your book -- I mean, maybe I ought to authenticate. You wrote this book, is that –
A. Sure.
MR. WOOD: We are not asking you to authenticate it. We are just asking you to refer us to the page.
Patsy Ramsey, 2000 Interview

Hi-Tec Sports will launch hikers promo
MODESTO, Calif. - Hi-Tec Sports USA will step up the marketing of its new children's outdoor hiking boot with an incentive campaign centered around the 500th anniversary of Columbus' voyage to the New World.
The company plans to offer posters, stickers and other amenities as part of a Navigators' Club that children can join when they purchase an item in the new Navigators' series.
Hi-Tec unveiled an outdoor boot called the Columbus as part of the series. The shoe features a compass tied to the laces. It comes in mochaspruce and navy, priced to retail at $44.95.
Hi-Tec will coordinate the club membership in Modesto and will send promotional posters with new orders. Details of the promotion will be offered to children in product boxes.
David Pompel, marketing manager, said he expects the promotion to spur children's sales. He reported company-wide sales for Hi-Tec should grow by 60 percent this year.
"When the kids get something in the box, they get excited," he said. Pompel added that Hi-Tec's rugged outdoor look is growing more popular as children focus on the environment.
"We're getting into department stores where the athletic look is dying. We try to make ties to positive values like recycling and the environment."
Footwear News, July 29, 1991

The Ramseys denied any connection to Hi-Tec footwear until Grand Jury testimony proved otherwise.

 

[UKGuy]

Yes, quite appropriate.

cynic,
Yes it does seem to merge with the corporate backdrop to the case. Yet as one one wtih a philologicol focus poon is of note, thanks again for for the reference.

.

 

[wonderllama]

Watching the vid now...it's very quiet and only mono which is a bit of a shame.

But worthwhile watching

 

[IzzyBlanche]

This is O/T so I don't know where else to post it so I'm posting it here to keep the thread bumped per Tricia's request.

I remember when this first happened and I followed the coverage in the early days but lost interest as no arrest was made.

Years later I watched the John Mark Karr circus with amazement because as little as I knew about the case even then, I knew from what he said he didn't do it.

My interest was re-sparked with the recent news of the grand jury's thwarted intentions.

Since then I have been educating myself further about the case and I read Kolar's book.

Having done that, I just feel so sad for poor little JonBenet. The constant bedwetting at that age alone, according to my therapist friend, at minimum indicates a "child with issues." What a great deal of unhappiness she must have experienced despite outward appearances to the contrary.

I know this is redundant to say here, but I pray that someday the truth JonBenet deserves comes out. lease:

 

[contrarymary]

bumped per Tricia's request...
IMO, the citizens of Boulder should be rioting in the streets over the unbelievable actions of Alex Hunter and Mary Lacy.

 

[Tadpole12]

Interesting thing I just learned by watching Kolar's video again (I saw it before but didn't catch this detail earlier)....the piece of broken train track has been found in BURKE's BEDROOM!!!!..WOW!!!!...around 39:00 mark on the video

Chief Kolar on JonBenet Ramsey - YouTube

HeyyaOpenMind4U,


I found my ear trumpet,
and was finally able to hear that portion.


@38:55

JK: So, this is what Harry sent me,
it's a piece of low guage train track
it usualy has three pins in it,
we've taken out the center pin, here, for
demonstration purposes.

This is the same type of train
on the floor as well as on that
table in the train room downstairs
you just saw a video of.

There was, loose pieces of this type of track
in Burke's bedroom as well.
In the crime scene video.

 

[Darlene733510]

So this piece of train track was on the floor of BR's bedroom. If that is what was used on JB, where did it happen? His room, JB's room, or the basement. Then there was his pj bottoms on her floor. We're these kids playing musical beds or what?

 

[dodie20]

So this piece of train track was on the floor of BR's bedroom. If that is what was used on JB, where did it happen? His room, JB's room, or the basement. Then there was his pj bottoms on her floor. We're these kids playing musical beds or what?

and there may be something to that. In the police interviews, PR was very evasive about who slept where, when.