Jane Valez Mitchell & other Media People Who Know Only Ramsey Spin Let's Educate Them

[Ames]

7 MR. LEVIN: I can state to you,
8 Mr. Wood, that, given the current state of
9 the scientific examination of fibers, that,
10 based on the state of the art technology,
11 that I believe, based on testing, that fibers
12 from your client's coat are in the paint
13 tray.
14 MR. WOOD: Are you stating as a
15 fact that they are from the coat or is it
16 consistent with? What is the test result
17 terminology? Is it conclusive? I mean, I
18 think she is entitled to know that when you
19 ask her to explain something.
20 MR. KANE: It is identical in all
21 scientific respects.
22 MR. WOOD: What does that mean?
23 Are you telling me it is conclusive?
24 MR. KANE: It is identical.

--SNIP--


9 Q. (By Mr. Levin) Mrs. Ramsey, I
10 have scientific evidence from forensic
11 scientists that say that there's fibers in
12 the paint tray that match your red jacket.
13 I have no evidence from any scientist to
14 suggest that those fibers are from any source
15 other than your red jacket.

--SNIP--

3 MR. LEVIN: I think that is
4 probably fair. Based on the state of the
5 art scientific testing, we believe the fibers
6 from her jacket were found in the paint
7 tray, were found tied into the ligature found
8 on JonBenet's neck, were found on the blanket
9 that she is wrapped in, were found on the
10 duct tape that is found on the mouth, and
11 the question is, can she explain to us how
12 those fibers appeared in those places that
13 are associated with her daughter's death.
14 And I understand you are not going to answer
15 those.

 

[Mysteeri]

SuperDave:

They weren't implied. They were said straight out.

Ok, I`ve read only one John interview, I think it was the 2000 one. I can`t access the transcript on internet anymore. Correct me if I`m wrong, but it went like: "What would you say if I told you that your fibers were found inside your daughters underwear?" J: "I say impossible, give me proof", LW: "Surely you can give us the expert opinion/how you came in to that conclusion". And they did not and the subject was dropped.

You answer like this:

I've heard that argument. But as ST said about the 2000 interviews where this exchange took place, it was less an attempt at a helpful exchange of information and more an attempt at public relations posturing. As usual, they made a whole list of demands in order to hold the meetings and Michael Kane became so angry with LW's stonewalling (or as IDI euphemistically phrases it, "wanting proof") that he threatened to walk out. It's something of a minor miracle that the meetings took place at all.

Quite frankly, if it hadn't been for LW, the interviewers may very WELL have given the expert opinion right there. See, I don't believe this nonsense about a big LE conspiracy to "get" the Rs. That only happens in the movies. I legitimately believe that the interviewers were trying to give PR and JR a legitimate chance to explain those fibers in an innocent way so they could MOVE ON from them. I'm not naive; obviously, it would have been a great boon if they had gotten a confession from one or both of them over it, but if they had, it would have been no one's fault but the Rs' themselves. Hit or miss, at least they took a swing. And as far as I'm concerned, it was a grand slam worthy of Ted Williams. Or it would have been if LW's phaser weren't permanently set to "attack."

I guess how you see it depends on whether you are IDI/RDI. But I do see it is possible that they just wanted to give them an opportunity to explain the fibers. And I`ve never thought about a "conspiracy", just human nature and interview tactics, if they thought the R`s were were guilty.

SuperDave wrote:

That COULD be interpreted as a false statement in and of itself if they knew that they had no basis to state that.

I don`t think they had no basis to say that, perhaps they had black/red fibers that are consistent with PR jacket. The question is, are they consistent with other kinds of black/red clothing, how rare are those kind of fibers?

About "damned if they do, damned if they don`t". I`m only refferring to internet discussions and general human nature, or should I say social cognition. Whether you think they`re guilty/innocent (among other things) is bound to affect how you interpret their behaviour.


SuperDave:

Maybe they SHOULD be. Look, Mysteeri, let me show you where I'm coming from. You told me once that you lived in Finland (I think it was). Well, here in the US, the Constitution allows those suspected of crimes certain rights, and it doesn't matter whether you're a power-broker or a pig-farmer.--you have a right to remain silent-- and so on.

Wow, thank you for educating a Finn. (I sure hope you didn`t think especially that first part is news and not in our constitution).
Look, the kind of judgement I`m refferring to is "Why did they not talk to the police- guilty!!!" regardless that legally they don`t have to talk to them.

SuperDave

If they don't want to talk to the cops, we should not judge them. When they pull stupid stunts to claim "cooperation" or tell falsehoods, they SHOULD be judged.

Ok, I understand your judgements better know.

 

[BBB167893]

Ok, I`ve read only one John interview, I think it was the 2000 one. I can`t access the transcript on internet anymore. Correct me if I`m wrong, but it went like: "What would you say if I told you that your fibers were found inside your daughters underwear?" J: "I say impossible, give me proof", LW: "Surely you can give us the expert opinion/how you came in to that conclusion". And they did not and the subject was dropped.

That's the interview I'm talking about. Unfortunately, I can't gain access to it.

Just because it was dropped doesn't mean anything. At that point, they probably knew that the Rs would just stonewall. I mentioned Wendy Murphy's book. She talks about this.

I guess how you see it depends on whether you are IDI/RDI.

I guess it is.

But I do see it is possible that they just wanted to give them an opportunity to explain the fibers.

Very good. Some people won't consider that much.

And I`ve never thought about a "conspiracy", just human nature and interview tactics, if they thought the R`s were were guilty.

You have a good point. Still, it helps to remember that these were A-1 pros.

I don`t think they had no basis to say that, perhaps they had black/red fibers that are consistent with PR jacket. The question is, are they consistent with other kinds of black/red clothing, how rare are those kind of fibers?

Well, those are good questions. The thing here is that fiber analysis does not just involve examining fibers under a microscope. In a lot of instances, the police can actually trace a garment back to the manufacturer and find out how many items with the same materials and the same fiber consistency have been made, where they have been shipped, how much they go for in price, etc. So, given that the fibers came from a sweater that was owned by a rich person, I imagine that they are not that common.

About "damned if they do, damned if they don`t". I`m only refferring to internet discussions and general human nature, or should I say social cognition. Whether you think they`re guilty/innocent (among other things) is bound to affect how you interpret their behaviour.

I'll admit to that. There are people who operate like that.

Wow, thank you for educating a Finn. (I sure hope you didn`t think especially that first part is news and not in our constitution).

I was just playing it safe, is all. I didn't mean anything by it, and I'm sorry if you thought I did.

Look, the kind of judgement I`m referring to is "Why did they not talk to the police- guilty!!!" regardless that legally they don`t have to talk to them.

I understand that. But that opens up a different line of questioning. Yes, they have the right not to speak with the cops. But that doesn't stop anyone from asking why wouldn't they? They have the right, but they also have a duty to their daughter. If you look at how people like Marc Klaas, John Walsh, and most notably Brenda and Damon Van Dam conducted themselves in the wake of their children being killed--especially when they had far less werewithal than the Rs did--and then look at how the Rs stonewalled, it's night and day.

Ok, I understand your judgements better now.

Should I be glad to hear that or not?

 

[Mysteeri]

SuperDave:

Well, those are good questions. The thing here is that fiber analysis does not just involve examining fibers under a microscope. In a lot of instances, the police can actually trace a garment back to the manufacturer and find out how many items with the same materials and the same fiber consistency have been made, where they have been shipped, how much they go for in price, etc. So, given that the fibers came from a sweater that was owned by a rich person, I imagine that they are not that common.

Ok, you know I`m not going to question those fibers anymore, so from now on I`ll consider them, at least Patsys, as facts until proven otherwise (questions remain about how many were found and were there other fibers).

SuperDave:

I was just playing it safe, is all.

All right.

SuperDave:

I understand that. But that opens up a different line of questioning. Yes, they have the right not to speak with the cops. But that doesn't stop anyone from asking why wouldn't they? They have the right, but they also have a duty to their daughter. If you look at how people like Marc Klaas, John Walsh, and most notably Brenda and Damon Van Dam conducted themselves in the wake of their children being killed--especially when they had far less werewithal than the Rs did--and then look at how the Rs stonewalled, it's night and day.

I too understand why people would ask that.

I`m not familiar with Van Dams case. Were the people you mentioned considered suspects themselves? John Walshes wife I think was.

Adam Walsh and Polly Klaas, what a horrible nightmare it was that happened to them.

Here`s an emotional video of John Walsh after Ottis Toole was identified as the killer:
[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-N_2C2cQtIM[/ame]

I noticed that he refferred to Adam as "that boy". I think the Ramseys have been condemned by some for saying that they loved "that girl". Well, that expression does not mean anything concerning guilt, it`s an example of biased judgement.

SuperDave:

Should I be glad to hear that or not?

You should be glad that I understand better what you mean by judging.

Anyway, I`m also done with this "biased judgement" stuff, I`ll move on.

 

[DeeDee249]

Does anyone know why the interviews are no longer available online? There is still a lot of stuff on ACR, but the interviews are a valuable resource.

 

[BBB167893]

Ok, you know I`m not going to question those fibers anymore, so from now on I`ll consider them, at least Patsy's, as facts until proven otherwise (questions remain about how many were found and were there other fibers).

Very good.

I too understand why people would ask that.

Okay.

I`m not familiar with Van Dam case.

Brenda and Damon Van Dam were the parents of Danielle Van Dam. Danielle was 7 years old. She was kidnapped from her house and killed by David Westerfield, who's now awaiting execution. And we KNOW he did it because his lawyer told the cops that he'd confess and tell them where the girl's body was if they agreed not to execute him. They found her the next day, so no deal was made.

Were the people you mentioned considered suspects themselves? John Walshes wife I think was.

The Van Dams were briefly considered, but cleared by the San Diego police very quickly, mostly due to their eager and helpful cooperation with the police. That's one of the reasons why they are such a good counterpoint to this case. Another reason: the Rs are often said to have no history of any kind of bad behavior (not that I buy that), and thus are incapable of harming JB. Oddly, the Van Dams lived a relatively irresponsible lifestyle (drug use, wild parties, etc.) You'd think then, that they were the most likely suspects in Danielle's death. Not so. Just goes to show you about books and covers, doesn't it? It should also be pointed out that the Van Dam case came about (as did a spate of other murders of children, I'm sorry to say) just at the time when Lin Wood, the Rs' mouthpiece was going around the talk show circuit claiming how similar JB's death was to other child abduction-murders. It's almost like the gods reached down and gave Mr. Wood a cold, hard slap of reality. Obviously, it didn't take.

Adam Walsh and Polly Klaas, what a horrible nightmare it was that happened to them.

Yes.

I noticed that he refferred to Adam as "that boy". I think the Ramseys have been condemned by some for saying that they loved "that girl". Well, that expression does not mean anything concerning guilt, it`s an example of biased judgement.

You could go either way, Mysteeri.

You should be glad that I understand better what you mean by judging.

Just making sure.

Anyway, I`m also done with this "biased judgement" stuff, I`ll move on.

Glad to hear it!

 

[cynic]

Does anyone know why the interviews are no longer available online? There is still a lot of stuff on ACR, but the interviews are a valuable resource.

Yes, I do.
Tricia owns the site, so I asked her. Here is the way it went.

Tricia, are you aware that your site, www.jonbenetindexguide.com is down?

Yes, I am afraid I could no longer afford to keep it up and running. Several of my JonBenet sites are going this way I am afraid.

Can we help, or are you transferring some of the information, such as the Ramsey interviews, elsewhere?

If you want to pay for the site we can put it back up. It is 24 dollars a month. We still have it all in one place. Let me know.
PS. The information on the site belongs to ACR

 

[MurriFlower]

Yes, I do.
Tricia owns the site, so I asked her. Here is the way it went.

Tricia, are you aware that your site, www.jonbenetindexguide.com is down?

Yes, I am afraid I could no longer afford to keep it up and running. Several of my JonBenet sites are going this way I am afraid.

Can we help, or are you transferring some of the information, such as the Ramsey interviews, elsewhere?

If you want to pay for the site we can put it back up. It is 24 dollars a month. We still have it all in one place. Let me know.
PS. The information on the site belongs to ACR

That sounds expensive. Maybe there is a cheaper server? I'm told I can now get my website for $5 per month.

 

[contrarymary]

Tricia,


You are truly a shining star in a black hole where this case is concerned. Thank you. God Bless.

Amen.
And I would have to add my thanks and blessings to Super Dave, Cherokee, and so many other intelligent, articulate, and dedicated posters, here who really educated me about this tragic case.

 

[Tricia]

Amen.
And I would have to add my thanks and blessings to Super Dave, Cherokee, and so many other intelligent, articulate, and dedicated posters, here who really educated me about this tragic case.

I have to add my thanks to the great people who keep JBR's name alive too.

Cherokee is one of the most amazing people I know and Super Dave fits his name. He is a Super Person no doubt.

To all of you who continue to post about the case my heartfelt thanks. Because of my work with Websleuths I am unable to devote the time I use to to JonBenet. You all are doing a fantastic job of making sure she is not forgotten.

I have the letter almost written. If you do not see me post it in the next week or so please give me a nudge.

Just thinking about what JVM said that night about the "innocent parents" makes my blood boil still.

It's not even 10:00 am here and already I'm spitting mad. LOL.

Somedays just start earlier than others.

Love you guys,
Tricia

 

[BBB167893]

I have to add my thanks to the great people who keep JBR's name alive too.

Cherokee is one of the most amazing people I know and Super Dave fits his name. He is a Super Person no doubt.

To all of you who continue to post about the case my heartfelt thanks. Because of my work with Websleuths I am unable to devote the time I use to to JonBenet. You all are doing a fantastic job of making sure she is not forgotten.

I have the letter almost written. If you do not see me post it in the next week or so please give me a nudge.

Just thinking about what JVM said that night about the "innocent parents" makes my blood boil still.

It's not even 10:00 am here and already I'm spitting mad. LOL.

Somedays just start earlier than others.

Love you guys,
Tricia

I sympathize with the feeling, Tricia. Yesterday, I was doing some shopping before work and I noticed the GLOBE (ARGH!) has a blurb on JB's 20th birthday. They had a picture of what she might look like. It was just some model in a Hollywood strapless gown with the same "16-y/o" JB picture head grafted onto it. But the article itself was a hidden gem. The person interviewed was none other than Wendy Murphy herself. She spoke at length about how great JB would have had it. Then, she pointed out that the new, vigorous investigation we were promised last February has not happened. She even echoed me by saying how rotten it is that no one cares about punishing her killer.

 

[BBB167893]

Hey, folks. I have little problem here, and I hope someone can help me. Do any of you have your copies of "Death of Innocence?" Because I need to check something out.

A few weeks ago, I was listening to a radio interview with Dale Yeager, the SERAPH profiler who worked on this case. He didn't talk about the case much, saying that it was an "open case," but it was clear that he was rather bitter with how it turned out. He mentioned that his work earned him a nasty remark in DOI, and that he regards it as a "badge of honor" to be slimed by them. Problem is, I can't remember what they said about him! Anyone who could furnish those statements would have my gratitude.

 

[DeeDee249]

Hey, folks. I have little problem here, and I hope someone can help me. Do any of you have your copies of "Death of Innocence?" Because I need to check something out.

A few weeks ago, I was listening to a radio interview with Dale Yeager, the SERAPH profiler who worked on this case. He didn't talk about the case much, saying that it was an "open case," but it was clear that he was rather bitter with how it turned out. He mentioned that his work earned him a nasty remark in DOI, and that he regards it as a "badge of honor" to be slimed by them. Problem is, I can't remember what they said about him! Anyone who could furnish those statements would have my gratitude.

You might get it from your library. I have seen it from time to time in paperback in bookstores; you needn't buy it. Just grab a latte and read it in the cafe.

 

[Zak]

Hey, folks. I have little problem here, and I hope someone can help me. Do any of you have your copies of "Death of Innocence?" Because I need to check something out.

A few weeks ago, I was listening to a radio interview with Dale Yeager, the SERAPH profiler who worked on this case. He didn't talk about the case much, saying that it was an "open case," but it was clear that he was rather bitter with how it turned out. He mentioned that his work earned him a nasty remark in DOI, and that he regards it as a "badge of honor" to be slimed by them. Problem is, I can't remember what they said about him! Anyone who could furnish those statements would have my gratitude.

I think that I have found what you are looking for. Its on page 326 of DOI. I will quote the paragraph for you:

" Another really outlandish allegation was made that Patsy was a born-again Christian who killed her daughter because she would be better off in heaven. Dale Yeager with a company called Seraph put such a claim in his report to Ron Gosage. Sure, we are Christians who believe in Jesus and read the Bible. But who would suggest that a mother might brutally and savagely murder her daughter to get her to heaven quickly? Such a thought is an affront to a human being, much less a Christian."

 

[joeskidbeck]

I think that I have found what you are looking for. Its on page 326 of DOI. I will quote the paragraph for you:

" Another really outlandish allegation was made that Patsy was a born-again Christian who killed her daughter because she would be better off in heaven. Dale Yeager with a company called Seraph put such a claim in his report to Ron Gosage. Sure, we are Christians who believe in Jesus and read the Bible. But who would suggest that a mother might brutally and savagely murder her daughter to get her to heaven quickly? Such a thought is an affront to a human being, much less a Christian."

BBM

Maybe a profiler who had seen it done too many times to count???:waitasec:

 

[BBB167893]

I think that I have found what you are looking for. Its on page 326 of DOI. I will quote the paragraph for you:

" Another really outlandish allegation was made that Patsy was a born-again Christian who killed her daughter because she would be better off in heaven. Dale Yeager with a company called Seraph put such a claim in his report to Ron Gosage. Sure, we are Christians who believe in Jesus and read the Bible. But who would suggest that a mother might brutally and savagely murder her daughter to get her to heaven quickly? Such a thought is an affront to a human being, much less a Christian."

Much obliged, Zak. Like I said, Yeager himself regards it as a badge of honor to be insulted by them.

Maybe a profiler who had seen it done too many times to count???

I was just going to say that!

 

[cynic]

Cina Wong speaks about her analysis of the handwriting in the Ramsey case:

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dg85wR8Uy5Q[/ame]

Mark Fuhrman speaks about the Ramsey Case:

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jZuWDj1lSos[/ame]

A former deputy DA speaks about the future of the case and comments on Lacy’s ludicrous actions:

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pmMzN4U7m_I[/ame]

 

[BBB167893]

Cina Wong speaks about her analysis of the handwriting in the Ramsey case:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dg85wR8Uy5Q

Mark Fuhrman speaks about the Ramsey Case:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jZuWDj1lSos

A former deputy DA speaks about the future of the case and comments on Lacy’s ludicrous actions:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pmMzN4U7m_I

I have the full interviews with Fuhrman and Wong, if anyone's interested.

 

[californiared]

Can anyone tell me where I can read this letter?

 

[Ames]

Can anyone tell me where I can read this letter?

Wasn't sure if you meant the actual Ransom note, or the sample one that Patsy wrote.

Here is the actual RN..


http://www.acandyrose.com/12251996ransomnote.htm


www.acandyrose.com has everything you need to know about this case..