Just my opinion of course but I think all the evidence has supported that John and Patsy Ramsey were innocent and people in the beginning speculating and only focusing on them to me is the reason her killer is still out there - I believe if the rumor of Beth and John are true - then that is their business. They have both faced losing their daughters and so in that respect have a lot in common and can understand eachother. Neither of them know who the killer of their child is and this poor man has had an awful life...I feel like he deserves to have a little joy .
John & Beth Dating
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John would agree with you on this statement and then he would smile.
JMO8778
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I have a HUGE feeling this one is going to catch up w her someday !!
I just don't see it lasting when the smell of the rose wears off and she delves more deeply into the facts,as her mind will have a chance to do as time goes on.I think right now she's grieving tremendously and not looking objectively at it all;she needs someone she thinks is in a similar situation to lean on and he's there.
JMO8778
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this poor man's daughter didn't get to live her life for very long,and I believe he knows why.
If Beth starts to suspect that John had anything to do with JonBenet's murder, it will be his worst nightmare!
Ames
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LOL....thats funny. Smiling, like the cat that ate the canary. My five year old will lie, and then say..."I am NOT lying....you don't see a smile on my face. If I were lying, I would be smiling"...and then she tries her best to keep from smiling, but it breaks across her face anyway.
Camper
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I won't do it, but wonder IF someone would or could send Beth
information about Websleuths and the JonBenet coverage?
Maybe just a L O N G list of the suspicious aspects of the case
and the severe case of 'Ramnesia' (C)Camper, that the R's had.
Transcripts would be lovely too.
Yoo Hoo anyone?
I just offer ideas for the general public, and WS posters.
Might want to W A I T and see IF there is an engagement ring first.
Timing is everything, hmmm.
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information about Websleuths and the JonBenet coverage?
Maybe just a L O N G list of the suspicious aspects of the case
and the severe case of 'Ramnesia' (C)Camper, that the R's had.
Transcripts would be lovely too.
Yoo Hoo anyone?
I just offer ideas for the general public, and WS posters.
Might want to W A I T and see IF there is an engagement ring first.
Timing is everything, hmmm.
.
Ames
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Yeah, almost like it was an afterthought. Patsy: "Gee John, it has been 7 months since JonBenet's murder (except she would call her "THAT CHILD")....do you think that we should call and see if there has been any progress in finding her killer". John: "Hmmmm, I don't know Patsy..that is up to you. I am going to have a cup of coffee, you do what you want to do." Patsy: "Well, if we don't call, its going to make us look even more suspicious". John: (sipping his coffee) "Well, then go ahead and call dear, if you think that it would do any good. We are still considered suspects...so, we need to do something to make them look elsewhere. I was hoping that they would just forget about it, and that it would all just go away...thats why I haven't called". Patsy: "Yeah, me too...but, the more that I think about it, the more that I think that we need to call for updates...and just at least APPEAR to be concerned". John: "Well, go ahead an call honey".
Ames
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Ramnesia? LOL...good one.
If they are so guilty, then how do you explain the DNA found on her panties that didn't belong to them or anyone else in the family?. How do you explain that the handwriting analysts said neither of them wrote the letter left? How do you explain them passing all lie detector tests? There are a lot more things that point to physical evidence that they aren't guilty such as the leaves that fell into the basement from the outside showing that someone did climb through that window from the outside. These people have been vindicated and have publically been written a letter by the new DA who examined all the evidence that said they were not guilty....I would love to know who committed this crime but you can't just ignore the facts and go by the fact that you just don't like how they responded to the situation to decide they are guilty.
Nuisanceposter
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You've been lied to, gagal. That's what the RST does.
The DNA is fragmented and degraded, and according to DA Mary Lacy herself, is antiquated and most likely is completely unrelated to the crime. JonBenet's DNA is fresh and complete, but the foreign DNA isn't? How does that happen? I'll tell you - the two samples were deposited at different times, and considering those underwear had never been laundered before JB was dressed in them, it is a fairly logical conclusion that the DNA was already there before the package of underwear was even opened. Dr Henry Lee tested brand new unwashed underwear identical to JB's, and found DNA in them.
Patsy Ramsey was unable to be excluded as author of the ransom note, even by experts hired by the Rs. Where did you get your info about that? Who are these analysts you refer to?
The Rs refused to take lie detector tests that didn't allow them to be under the influence of drugs after they took a test that didn't immediately clear them. They shopped around for a polygrapher and took more than one test before the RST announced they passed.
The leaves prove less than the intact spider web does. How do you explain that? The web had been spun by a hibernating spider that would not have come out to repair its web.
Those crime scene pictures were taken later in the day than right when LE arrived, also. Lou Smit's crime scene photos were taken on a completely different day.
"These people have been vindicated"...what people? The Ramseys? Fraid not. They have NOT been cleared and are still prime suspects in their daughter's murder.
Better do some more research - Mary Lacy actually admitted that she isn't that familiar with the Ramsey case and HASN'T examined everything and done all the research.
You can't ignore the facts, and the fact is - the Rs have not been cleared because there is enough evidence to suspect they were the killers. They lied consistently through their daughter's murder investigation and obstructed justice at every turn. The tipline and JBR Foundation are dead ends. They hired people to keep them out of jail, not search for the killer. They have never acted like this was a real murder, and they've never acted like they're actually afraid that someone dangerous is loose and stalking them.
The DNA is fragmented and degraded, and according to DA Mary Lacy herself, is antiquated and most likely is completely unrelated to the crime. JonBenet's DNA is fresh and complete, but the foreign DNA isn't? How does that happen? I'll tell you - the two samples were deposited at different times, and considering those underwear had never been laundered before JB was dressed in them, it is a fairly logical conclusion that the DNA was already there before the package of underwear was even opened. Dr Henry Lee tested brand new unwashed underwear identical to JB's, and found DNA in them.
Patsy Ramsey was unable to be excluded as author of the ransom note, even by experts hired by the Rs. Where did you get your info about that? Who are these analysts you refer to?
The Rs refused to take lie detector tests that didn't allow them to be under the influence of drugs after they took a test that didn't immediately clear them. They shopped around for a polygrapher and took more than one test before the RST announced they passed.
The leaves prove less than the intact spider web does. How do you explain that? The web had been spun by a hibernating spider that would not have come out to repair its web.
Those crime scene pictures were taken later in the day than right when LE arrived, also. Lou Smit's crime scene photos were taken on a completely different day.
"These people have been vindicated"...what people? The Ramseys? Fraid not. They have NOT been cleared and are still prime suspects in their daughter's murder.
Better do some more research - Mary Lacy actually admitted that she isn't that familiar with the Ramsey case and HASN'T examined everything and done all the research.
You can't ignore the facts, and the fact is - the Rs have not been cleared because there is enough evidence to suspect they were the killers. They lied consistently through their daughter's murder investigation and obstructed justice at every turn. The tipline and JBR Foundation are dead ends. They hired people to keep them out of jail, not search for the killer. They have never acted like this was a real murder, and they've never acted like they're actually afraid that someone dangerous is loose and stalking them.
Camper
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--->>>How do you explain them passing ALL?lie detector
tests?
The National Enquirer offered the R's One Million Dollars to
take the test immediately after the murder. Nopey that would
insulting. Worse to be insulted than to find the killer of
your own baby? My hmmm meter still works on that one.
Do you have a source for the ALL lie detector tests
that they passed ?, HOW MANY ?. WHY IF they would NOT take one for a million
dollars, WHY would they take ALL of the OTHER ? tests
mention?
My memory is fading, BUT I recall that there was another lie detector test given to JR's
secretary that she passed with flying colors, that tied a damaging statement
made to her by JR to the murder. That disappeared from the radar in short order.
I kept no records on the case like many here.
Some enterprising soul could no doubt DIG her up again and ask more questions of her.
.
Ames
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And not only that....on the 10 year anniversary 48 Hours Special....it was stated that there is STILL a warehouse full of evidence that hasn't even been look at. Why is that??
websurfer
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They do have equal sadness to share and discuss with each other where somebody else would not understand as well...
NP, I'm not usually one to pick at the bones, but I CAN'T RESIST!
He wasn't the only one who said that.
Good help is so hard to find.
Don't forget: this was years later, plenty of time for someone to convince themselves they didn't do it. Don't take my word for it. A psychologist said the same thing, before any tests were taken!
Indeed. Leaves around a window that's been broken for months? I can't imagine.
Michael Kane even said she hadn't read the file, because there was no way she could have read it and come to that conclusion.
Henry Lee said they should have been arrested for that alone.
By their own admission! In his depo, John admits that they were hired to keep the Rs out of jail and that for all his whining about finding the "real killer" he never even read their reports! In fact, Ellis Armistead, one of the head PIs working for them, quit, because he couldn't be part of the fraud they were laying on the public anymore.
Let's be specific, shall we? Anyone remember the "break-in" at their Atlanta home in 2000? John said the guy got in because he left the door unlocked. WHAT?!? If you're kid's been killed right under your nose, you will NEVER leave anything unlocked again!
He wasn't the only one who said that.
Good help is so hard to find.
Don't forget: this was years later, plenty of time for someone to convince themselves they didn't do it. Don't take my word for it. A psychologist said the same thing, before any tests were taken!
Indeed. Leaves around a window that's been broken for months? I can't imagine.
Michael Kane even said she hadn't read the file, because there was no way she could have read it and come to that conclusion.
Henry Lee said they should have been arrested for that alone.
By their own admission! In his depo, John admits that they were hired to keep the Rs out of jail and that for all his whining about finding the "real killer" he never even read their reports! In fact, Ellis Armistead, one of the head PIs working for them, quit, because he couldn't be part of the fraud they were laying on the public anymore.
Let's be specific, shall we? Anyone remember the "break-in" at their Atlanta home in 2000? John said the guy got in because he left the door unlocked. WHAT?!? If you're kid's been killed right under your nose, you will NEVER leave anything unlocked again!
Ames
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Yep, I remember that...and John's statement that he left the door unlocked. That was ONLY FOUR years after their daughter's murder. Were they not afraid that the Small Foreign Faction might come after Burke....or him or Patsy? There is NO WAY in h*ll that a father would leave a door unlocked, after a supposed intruder broke into his home FOUR years earlier and murdered his daughter. NO WAY!! He had another child to think of too....he would have been afraid for Burke's safety. I mean, if someone HATED John so much, that they would come in and kill the man's daughter.....you know that they wouldn't stop there. I mean...IF the intruder really existed....which he doesn't. That's why John wasn't more safety conscious.
Camper
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About the Atlanta burglary, ROPE again.
JR was put into the bathroom by the burglar.
IF I recall a grandfather clock was 'moved' to the outside of the bathroom door, surrounded by ROPE then attached to the bathroom door knob on the outside, (JR) inside the bathroom.
With the amount of ROPE used for this ceremony, why not just TIE JR up, with the ROPE? Arms behind his back, hog tied, and then tied to the sink water handles!! Then the burglar could have tied his feet together too. OR IF any remaining ROPE, it could have been tied into a giant knot and put in JR's mouth.
Wonder what kind of ROPE JR has in his home now?
Super Dave, did WE ever see a picture of the Atlanta ROPE, or the length of ROPE used in the 'ceremony' there?
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JR was put into the bathroom by the burglar.
IF I recall a grandfather clock was 'moved' to the outside of the bathroom door, surrounded by ROPE then attached to the bathroom door knob on the outside, (JR) inside the bathroom.
With the amount of ROPE used for this ceremony, why not just TIE JR up, with the ROPE? Arms behind his back, hog tied, and then tied to the sink water handles!! Then the burglar could have tied his feet together too. OR IF any remaining ROPE, it could have been tied into a giant knot and put in JR's mouth.
Wonder what kind of ROPE JR has in his home now?
Super Dave, did WE ever see a picture of the Atlanta ROPE, or the length of ROPE used in the 'ceremony' there?
.
Nuisanceposter
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Exactly. Not only that, but the Rs would not have let Burke out of their sight on 12/26/96 if they had actually believed that JonBenet had been kidnapped. They would have had no idea who took her, or where they were, or what they'd do next. They never would have allowed Burke to go anywhere if they had believed someone out there was holding their daughter, ready to kill her, watching their house.
And they certainly wouldn't have felt he was safe going off to ride bikes with friends, etc, even with a walkie-talkie or a cell phone. They'd have home-schooled him or something - sent him to a seriously gated private school with a bodyguard, if socialization was that important. The Ramseys have NEVER behaved as if this kidnapping/murder was the real thing.
JMO8778
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Neither did the Stine's,esp. Susan,what with her driving the boys to school every day,right after the 'SFF' killed JB.Combined w/ her actions at the party on the 23rd,I think she knew something,at least enough so that she wasn't afraid.