Jonbenet's bed

[coloradokares]

exactly.that's one of the traits I noticed w. someone who has bpd too...being over-the-top,the need to impress everyone,but behind the scenes...chaos.Sheer chaos.They try to do it all,and more,but can't keep up with it all.

Exactly

 

[trixie]

trixie,

Hi! Either do I, it must be the nature of the forum?


To effect a homicide staging set in her bedroom?

What everyone misses is that she was not killed in the wine-cellar, and probably not killed in the kitchen/breakfast bar area with its lack of disorganization and staging e.g. pineapple bowl. Similar reasoning applies to her bathroom since it was left in disarray, so was she killed in the Den, or JR's bedroom, hence the black fibers left on her genital area, or is BlueCrab correct and Burke was directly involved?


.

Hmmm. I thought it had been established that she was killed in the basement outside the wine cellar door on the carpeted floor. I think some are trying to make out a lot more staging than there actually was. Just MO.

 

[Albert18]

I understand people have different tastes in decorating but what surprised me was the lack of sophistication. These were wealthy people. I would have expected Ethan Allen, not Unclaimed Furniture.

 

[Ames]

you guys probably have seen this pic, but this is the one I am talking about in this post...
http://images.search.yahoo.com/sear...jpeg&no=6&tt=84&oid=cfcfea41c77369a8&ei=UTF-8
Does anyone know when the last time Jonbenet wore the sweater that is on her bed in this crime scene photo? What about what appears to be a pink shirt up by where her pillow should be?
I have never seen where Patsy made any comment about the condition of her bed... have you? It just seems to me that a mother would pick up the things on her bed when putting her in it... maybe throw them in the laundry hamper. I am not a neat freak really, but I wouldn't let me child go to sleep in a bed that was covered with dirty clothing.... or any clothing. And her pillow was on the wrong side of the bed! Why was nothing ever said about any of this by Patsy or John in their statements?

Patsy actually said that it was "NORMAL" for clothing to be lying on JB's bed. John says in HIS interview...that he thought that the sweater belonged to Patsy. (Of course, I have no idea why Patsy's sweater would be on JB's bed.....John is a man...no offense to the men out there, but...I believe that Patsy's statement was correct...the sweater belonged to JB). She said that she couldn't remember the last time that JB wore the sweater...

 

[Ames]

Keep in mind- many of us here feel she didn't GO to bed that night, contrary to what her parents have said, and I agree this was a very good point to make when she was being questioned. LE could have asked that same question- would you really have put your daughter to sleep in a bed that messy? They missed this and many other opportunities to catch them in a lie.
Then again, if asked, PR might have simply said she always went to sleep with her bed looking like that.

That's exactly what she did say....that it wasn't unusual for JB's clothes to be on the bed, when she went to sleep. Now...the pillow at the foot of the bed, is ANOTHER story.

 

[Ames]

I understand people have different tastes in decorating but what surprised me was the lack of sophistication. These were wealthy people. I would have expected Ethan Allen, not Unclaimed Furniture.

My thoughts exactly!!

 

[Toltec]

Patsy actually said that it was "NORMAL" for clothing to be lying on JB's bed. John says in HIS interview...that he thought that the sweater belonged to Patsy. (Of course, I have no idea why Patsy's sweater would be on JB's bed.....John is a man...no offense to the men out there, but...I believe that Patsy's statement was correct...the sweater belonged to JB). She said that she couldn't remember the last time that JB wore the sweater...

As I stated in my previous post....the sweater belongs to Patsy. She lent it to Ariana Pugh the day of the Christmas party...Dec. 23.

The pillow is exactly where it should be if JonBenet were watching videos. Her televison is in her closet so in order to watch tv she would have to lay or sit on the foot of the bed.

The pink pajama top is the pajama Patsy could not find. We know JB wore her pink pajamas Christmas morning. There are pictures of her wearing them.

The sheets on JB's bed are not the same sheets LHP put on the day of the 23d.

JonBenet's sheets were changed between the 24th and 25th by Patsy. If the sheets were changed the night of the murder, then that would explain why they do not look like anyone slept on them. The pajama top does not look smashed if JB were lying on top of it.

 

[Ames]

As I stated in my previous post....the sweater belongs to Patsy. She lent it to Ariana Pugh the day of the Christmas party...Dec. 23.

The pillow is exactly where it should be if JonBenet were watching videos. Her televison is in her closet so in order to watch tv she would have to lay or sit on the foot of the bed.

The pink pajama top is the pajama Patsy could not find. We know JB wore her pink pajamas Christmas morning. There are pictures of her wearing them.

The sheets on JB's bed are not the same sheets LHP put on the day of the 23d.

JonBenet's sheets were changed between the 24th and 25th by Patsy. If the sheets were changed the night of the murder, then that would explain why they do not look like anyone slept on them. The pajama top does not look smashed if JB were lying on top of it.

Yes, I read your previous post, after I had made mine. Sorry...

Why in the world would Patsy say that the sweater belonged to JB, when she knew all along it was hers. Was this something else that she was just lying about, to try to throw police off of her scent?? I will find that part in her interview, if you want me to.

I wonder if she may have been watching videos, with the pillow at the foot of the bed...as you have stated...and may have fallen asleep there and thats when she wet the bed. I am a strong believer in the bedwetting theory. The pillow never made sense to me, but what you are saying does make sense. Patsy could have told JB that she could watch videos until she fell asleep.

 

[UKGuy]

Hmmm. I thought it had been established that she was killed in the basement outside the wine cellar door on the carpeted floor. I think some are trying to make out a lot more staging than there actually was. Just MO.

trixie,

It is one of the subtle factors to this case, there is much more staging than at first appears. What seems an open and shut case of an intruder homicide slowly unravels into separate stagings.

Some people suggest she may have been killed outside the wine-cellar door, others that the final staging was effected here e.g. garrote, taped mouth, hand constraints etc. The wood shavings discovered outside the wine-cellar door imply it was created there.

So JonBenet may have already been dead prior to arriving outside the wine-cellar, she may have been killed and cleaned up elsewhere e.g. upstairs?


.

 

[Ames]

trixie,

It is one of the subtle factors to this case, there is much more staging than at first appears. What seems an open and shut case of an intruder homicide slowly unravels into separate stagings.

Some people suggest she may have been killed outside the wine-cellar door, others that the final staging was effected here e.g. garrote, taped mouth, hand constraints etc. The wood shavings discovered outside the wine-cellar door imply it was created there.

So JonBenet may have already been dead prior to arriving outside the wine-cellar, she may have been killed and cleaned up elsewhere e.g. upstairs?


.

That would be my guess. I think that she was cleaned up upstairs, probably in her room. Remember, Patsy talking about the drapes above JB's bed...she says...and I quote..."I don't see any blood on them, do you?" And she wasn't even asked about any blood...that just came from nowhere.

 

[UKGuy]

That would be my guess. I think that she was cleaned up upstairs, probably in her room. Remember, Patsy talking about the drapes above JB's bed...she says...and I quote..."I don't see any blood on them, do you?" And she wasn't even asked about any blood...that just came from nowhere.

Ames,

Or the Den? Patsy referring to blood might be a reference to the assumption that she was kidnapped from her bedroom, and any struggle may have resulted in bloodstains, quite why I am not certain.

JonBenet may have been placed into her bed after being killed, she would look fine except for the abrasions on her neck, her head injury is invisible, then later some plan was constructed that was either amended or placed JonBenet in the wine-cellar?


.

 

[JMO8778]

I understand people have different tastes in decorating but what surprised me was the lack of sophistication. These were wealthy people. I would have expected Ethan Allen, not Unclaimed Furniture.

ROFL !!

 

[JMO8778]

trixie,

It is one of the subtle factors to this case, there is much more staging than at first appears. What seems an open and shut case of an intruder homicide slowly unravels into separate stagings.

Some people suggest she may have been killed outside the wine-cellar door, others that the final staging was effected here e.g. garrote, taped mouth, hand constraints etc. The wood shavings discovered outside the wine-cellar door imply it was created there.

So JonBenet may have already been dead prior to arriving outside the wine-cellar, she may have been killed and cleaned up elsewhere e.g. upstairs?


.

but I thought it was said that urine from her bladder relaxing upon death was found outside the WC door,with that being the place death occured when the ligature cut off her oxygen.

 

[JMO8778]

Yes, I read your previous post, after I had made mine. Sorry...

Why in the world would Patsy say that the sweater belonged to JB, when she knew all along it was hers. Was this something else that she was just lying about, to try to throw police off of her scent?? I will find that part in her interview, if you want me to.

I wonder if she may have been watching videos, with the pillow at the foot of the bed...as you have stated...and may have fallen asleep there and thats when she wet the bed. I am a strong believer in the bedwetting theory. The pillow never made sense to me, but what you are saying does make sense. Patsy could have told JB that she could watch videos until she fell asleep.

could be,what if she told JB she could stay up a bit if she changed into the red shirt,to make getting ready the next morning easier?
as far as the pillow,if PR changed the sheets,then she could have placed the pillow there while changing them,and didn't put it back.

 

[armywife210]

could be,what if she told JB she could stay up a bit if she changed into the red shirt,to make getting ready the next morning easier?
as far as the pillow,if PR changed the sheets,then she could have placed the pillow there while changing them,and didn't put it back.

It doesn't look to me like a freshly changed bed though.... the sheets are all wrinkly. There is stuff UNDER the pillow, though I can't make out what it might be, on top of her bed.

 

[eleven]

It doesn't look to me like a freshly changed bed though.... the sheets are all wrinkly. There is stuff UNDER the pillow, though I can't make out what it might be, on top of her bed.

There is simply no way to know if the bed was freshly changed or not when looking at the photos.

Sheets can be wrinkly just from being left in the dryer and not removed as soon as they are done.

 

[Ames]

Ames,

Or the Den? Patsy referring to blood might be a reference to the assumption that she was kidnapped from her bedroom, and any struggle may have resulted in bloodstains, quite why I am not certain.

JonBenet may have been placed into her bed after being killed, she would look fine except for the abrasions on her neck, her head injury is invisible, then later some plan was constructed that was either amended or placed JonBenet in the wine-cellar?


.

Yep, or the den, and you are right...she may have said that about the drapes, because the "intruder" supposedly took her from her bedroom. I have always thought though, that Patsy or John placed her on her bed, before moving her to the cellar. I agree with you...I just don't believe that she was killed in that cellar. I believe that she was killed somewhere else, placed on her bed....(they may have even been going to LEAVE her on the bed at first...but, then came up with plan B, probably because they didn't want Burke to see her)...and then placed in the cellar. They could have placed her on the bed, like you said...until they could constuct another plan. Hey, heres another thought..what IF she never made it to bed that night....and they placed her there, just so the fibers from her clothes...would be found on and around the bed. To make it look like that is where she was "kidnapped" from. (It would have poked a hole in their story, if she never went to bed that night....and they told the police that she DID, and was kidnapped from her bed....BUT fibers from her clothing that she was found in, were nowhere on or around the bed).

 

[Ames]

could be,what if she told JB she could stay up a bit if she changed into the red shirt,to make getting ready the next morning easier?
as far as the pillow,if PR changed the sheets,then she could have placed the pillow there while changing them,and didn't put it back.

Good thought...because there is no doubt in my mind that she wore that red turtleneck to bed. Patsy even AT FIRST said this her own self...and then changed her mind. It was found balled up in the bathroom....she cried when she saw the picture. Patsy...IMO...was lying when she changed her story to JB wearing the Gap Shirt to bed.

 

[DeeDee249]

It's very possible JBR wore the red turtleneck to bed. And photos prove she wore the white star shirt to the White's. So she HAD to be redressed in it, or it would have been harder to believe she was never awake after returning home that night.
I can't belive PR got away with that remark about the blood on the drapes. Did NO ONE have the guts to call her out on so many of the things they said (like her hearing JR scream from the basement, etc). How did she know what kind of wounds her daughter had, whether there should even BE blood unless she KNEW how she died. Why, the Rs purported never to have read the autopsy report (that mentioned the blood).
You know, every time I watch PMPT I get more and more aggravated. I know it was just a portrayal of the events, but it still gives me agita.

 

[DeeDee249]

Remember also that PR was packing/getting ready for two trips that day. There was bound to be clothes strewn about the bedrooms, though this was normal for them anyway. Housekeeper Linda Hoffman-Pugh said there were no hampers in the home- clothes were dropped where they were taken off, even underwear.

About that multocolor sweater on JBR' bed...how old was Ariana Pugh? I do recall PR inviting her housekeeper and her daughter to stay for the party on the 23rd, which they hadn't originally planned to attend. Ariana did not have a suitable outfit, so PR lent her one. I assumed PR lent her one of JBR's sweaters, not one of her own. I thought she was a similar age to JBR. In a household like that, it isn't ususual to see that sweater still on the bed in JBR's room.
BTW, look at the master bedroom photos. NO ONE slept in that bed either. The bottom corner is NEATLY folded back as if to seem to look for someone under it. First of all, if there had been no note, and I discovered my 6-year old not in her room at 5am, I'd be frantically searching, not folding the bedcovers back so neatly (in a sloppy household at that!). WITH the note, why look under there at all? You think the "kidnappers" would hide her THERE (with the parents SLEEPING in the bed?) Actually, once you have the note, why look anywhere? If she'd kidnapped, she's NOT hiding.