JonBenet's Skull Fractures: The Weapon

[KarenUK]

If the flashlight was the weapon, she would have been struck with the bulb end. The case on that end is larger, and as the blow came down, it would have been the EDGE of that casing that made contact with her skull. I believe one forensic specialist used an identical flashlight to crack a "skull" made of styrofoam and it made an almost identical oval hole, although because it was not bone, it made no linear fracture.

I defer to your greater knowledge on this DeeDee, I had read somewhere that if the bulb end had been used it would have smashed the glass.
I kind of had an idea that the flashlight was wiped down to make it look like something an intruder had used (everyone at the Ramseys house on the 26th denied any knowledge of it), but they back-tracked afterwards realising that JAR would identify it as the one he had given John.

 

[Rashi'sDaughter]

I tend to think that we don't yet have an object that exactly fits with the head bash. In my opinion it would have to be something BR would have used to shut his sister up with. I just want to make one more point, it's a small detail, but it really bugs me when JB's rape is referred to as a "jab". Just my 2 cents worth...

 

[DeeDee249]

I defer to your greater knowledge on this DeeDee, I had read somewhere that if the bulb end had been used it would have smashed the glass.
I kind of had an idea that the flashlight was wiped down to make it look like something an intruder had used (everyone at the Ramseys house on the 26th denied any knowledge of it), but they back-tracked afterwards realising that JAR would identify it as the one he had given John.

The glass wouldn't have smashed hitting a skull covered with hair, and the blow came down on an angle anyway. The glass is recessed in a bit from the edge also. The glass part wouldn't have even made contact with her skull.

 

[MissJ]

Very interesting thread

 

[midwest mama]

The glass wouldn't have smashed hitting a skull covered with hair, and the blow came down on an angle anyway. The glass is recessed in a bit from the edge also. The glass part wouldn't have even made contact with her skull.

DeeDee, look at the size of the glass on pg 341 of Kolar's book. Notice it in comparison to the Kleenex box, and the size of the teabag. It looks to me like the glass is a smaller "juice size" glass, and the bottom of the glass is thick enough that it would not have broken if smashed into JB's head. That smaller size might account for a 1-3/4" long fracture, especially going in at an angle.

The glass holds a spent teabag, so either the liquid was consumed or emptied in another manner -- spilled or flung? If the flashlight had gotten liquid dumped on it, would it make sense to totally wipe it off, including the inside thinking wet batteries might cause a problem?

JB was known to tease Burke to extremes. Maybe a game of stealing some of his pineapple was going on, but needing about 30 minutes for it to move into the upper intestine, she would have been working at it for a bit before Burke got mad enough to clop her with his glass..............

 

[DeeDee249]

DeeDee, look at the size of the glass on pg 341 of Kolar's book. Notice it in comparison to the Kleenex box, and the size of the teabag. It looks to me like the glass is a smaller "juice size" glass, and the bottom of the glass is thick enough that it would not have broken if smashed into JB's head. That smaller size might account for a 1-3/4" long fracture, especially going in at an angle.

The glass holds a spent teabag, so either the liquid was consumed or emptied in another manner -- spilled or flung? If the flashlight had gotten liquid dumped on it, would it make sense to totally wipe it off, including the inside thinking wet batteries might cause a problem?

JB was known to tease Burke to extremes. Maybe a game of stealing some of his pineapple was going on, but needing about 30 minutes for it to move into the upper intestine, she would have been working at it for a bit before Burke got mad enough to clop her with his glass..............

I was referring to the glass on the bulb end of the flashlight.

 

[otg]

Well that is if the person gripped the handle end of the golf club or bat - rather than holding it at the base and hitting her at close range... To me the use of that type of weapon would suggest JB was at a slight distance from the person who swung the bat/club.
(This is purely conjecture on my part of course - I have no experience of swinging a bat at someone, the closest I've come is swatting flies with a rolled up newspaper :dunno: )

For a long time I thought that maybe the flashlight was used in the sexual abuse, then used to silence her when she screamed; however I can't imagine a scenario in which that would occur were the killer would strike with the handle-end of the flashlight, rather than the bulb end, OR put their hand over her mouth.
Mind you in this case what 'most people' would do is irrelevant - if we started looking at the strange things that people have said/done in this case we would have trouble knowing where to begin!

Being at a “slight” distance (IMO) would indeed be necessary regardless of the weapon. But I don’t see how the distance requirement would limit the use. I believe there should be sufficient overhead space in just about any room in the house to have been able to deliver a blow with sufficient force to cause the resulting damage --particularly given the possible weapons that might have been used.

On the use of a flashlight (“torch” to you)... Having been on the receiving end of a blow to the head from a six-cell policeman’s flashlight (the details of which I hopefully don’t need to go into), I can speak from a little bit of experience. Also, having seen them used on others, it is most common for the policeman to hold it at the bulb end (referred to as the head) and use the barrel as a club. Mind you, these are people who have been trained on how to use them, (which the person who struck JonBenet probably was not). I believe the reason for this is two-fold: (1) less chance of damage to the more fragile end where the lens and bulb are, and (2) more potential force delivery from the center of weight of the flashlight. (One of these days when discussing the potential candidates for the weapon used, we’re going to have to discuss something called a “sweet spot”. A flashlight has it, a tennis racquet has one, a baseball bat, a cricket bat, a golf club... each has its own special sweet spot.)

But then again, as you correctly point out, “What 'most people' would do is irrelevant.” Or, said another way, Occam’s razor does not nullify the plenitude principle.

 

[otg]

Two things:
1. What about less velocity with the weapon, but more pressure? That crack took a great deal of pressure, IMHO.

Have you been talking this over with BOESP? We discussed the pressure/velocity issue over at FFJ, and I don’t really have a definite answer - - just my feeling that the pressure required to crack the skull will be the same regardless of the speed of the weapon. What I think will vary is the velocity versus the weight (translated into inertia.) Over there, an engineer (Wombat), said that the pressure required is 9,000 lbs (~4,000 kg) to cause a shear fracture in a skull. My belief is that whether that 9,000 lbs is delivered by a still, unmoving, applied weight or by a fast-moving object that weighs only, say, 1 lb, it is only that split-second that the force of the 9,000 lbs is required.

2. Lack of scalp contusion - weapon without sharp, clean edges?

If you mean the lack of external evidence of a contusion and no broken/damaged skin, I believe you are correct about no sharp edges.

 

[UKGuy]

Have you been talking this over with BOESP? We discussed the pressure/velocity issue over at FFJ, and I don’t really have a definite answer - - just my feeling that the pressure required to crack the skull will be the same regardless of the speed of the weapon. What I think will vary is the velocity versus the weight (translated into inertia.) Over there, an engineer (Wombat), said that the pressure required is 9,000 lbs (~4,000 kg) to cause a shear fracture in a skull. My belief is that whether that 9,000 lbs is delivered by a still, unmoving, applied weight or by a fast-moving object that weighs only, say, 1 lb, it is only that split-second that the force of the 9,000 lbs is required.


If you mean the lack of external evidence of a contusion and no broken/damaged skin, I believe you are correct about no sharp edges.

otg,
The velocity and weight are direct contributers to any skull fracturing, increase either and the kinetic energy of the striking object is magnified.

It appears whatever the object was, the assailant applied first time a direct hit, with such force it not only caused the cranial depression, but also the redundant kinetic energy which was transmitted via the fissures.

Which suggests the force applied was in excess of the theoretical minimum.


This allows us to speculate if the head injury could be an initial attempt at staging, since it appears from the contours of the cranial depression that JonBenet was stationary, if she had been in motion she might be expected to have suffered further injuries?


The flashlight seems like a good candidate, particularly since it was wiped clean, that would only need to be done if it played some role?

For me the question is not what object was used to whack JonBenet, but why? No Ramsey really needed to whack JonBenet, she was a little six-year old girl quite easily restrained.


.

 

[otg]

OTG, Thank you so much for getting us in 'logical thinking' path again!!!

IMO, here are couple things to consider from your prior and current posts.

1. Size and Position.

- as you stated earlier (many times!), the size of the depressed fracture aka 'hole' is not large (1/2” by 1-3/4”). And if you'll take out 1/8" from the width (as you show above) - it'll be even smaller 'hole' - 3/8" x 1-3/4".

I’m not certain about the exact size, but I mentioned the problem with the 1/8” gap to show the problem I had. You wouldn’t believe the amount of mathematics, geometry, and yes -- even trigonometry I have been trying to remember, calculate, sketch, and even illustrate to show what and why I think it is a certain size. But there are too many variables that we just don’t know.

First off, how exact was Dr. Meyer when he “measured” the depressed fracture? Was it exactly 1/2” x 1-3/4”? Or could its width have been 3/8”, or 5/8” and rounded off to 1/2”? Was the length exactly 1-3/4”, or 1-5/8”, or 1-7/8”? Why didn’t he measure it in millimeters as he did with the depth of bruising on the cerebral cortex? Was the 1/8” gap in the linear fracture even there when Dr. Meyer measured it, or was it being held together tightly by the surrounding tissue only to open up when the skull was removed? Linear fractures are actually fairly common, and usually don’t require any medical intervention. Only a great deal of swelling of the brain would cause the linear fracture to separate with the skull in place, and Meyer only mentioned minor swelling (“Mild narrowing of the sulci and flattening of the gyri are seen.”).

Then if we assume the 1-3/4” to be exact to try and scale it to the width of the hole, we have to figure what 1-3/4” would be when looked at from the angle in the only photo we have access to -- something like this:

What we have here is a sphere (the skull) with an estimated radius, and a known chord length of 1.75” (the length of the depressed fracture). With that, we can figure the internal angle, and then the different right angles that would tell us what we would see when looking at a 1-3/4” length at an angle that we can only guess at in the photo.

And this is only after guessing at the diameter of JonBenet’s skull based on generalities available online. By the time I’ve had to guess at some variables and assume others, I get way off from the little 1/8” I’m trying to pin down.

Trying another approach, I tried scaling the width to the length in the photo to see if one width measurement was more likely than another based on the known ratio of 1:3.5. Even this didn’t tell me much.

So what I’m saying is that we can only guess. My guess is that when Dr. Meyer measured the fractures, he did so just after having reflected the scalp. At that time, I believe the linear fracture was being held together by the surrounding tissue/flesh/skin so that his measurement is of the depressed fracture without the ~1/8” gap added to it. IOW, when we look at the depressed fracture in the photo we have, we are looking at a 5/8” x 1-3/4” area because the linear fracture has opened up. The photo I posted earlier where I had taken out that 1/8” gap is probably a better representation of the actual “hole” as first seen by the coroner.

- the 'hole' is on the back of the head, on the right-lower location, indicating that the blow was delivered from behind. IMO, while JB was in sitting position. In SECURELY SITTING position. Why? Because if JB would be running-out or laying-down or standing-up, such a blow would send her 'flying' hard to the floor, potentially causing an additional injuries to her face and front body.

I appreciate seeing not only what you think, but the logic behind how you arrive at an opinion. But I can still see other possibilities that won’t let me come to the same conclusions. For instance, I believe (as you said) that the head blow came from behind her head (not necessarily from behind her). That doesn’t mean (with both standing) that the assailant couldn’t have been standing in front of her and been much taller, or her head might have been tilted down. For each position I can think of (standing, sitting, squatting, on all fours, or even lying down), I can also imagine how the head blow might have occurred on the back of her head (except for lying down on her back). That doesn’t mean though that one isn’t more likely than another. I like that you think she was sitting because there was little apparent damage to her face as one might assume if she fell from a further distance -- or even while running. (I still believe she didn’t hit the floor because the loosely tied cord around her neck caught her.)

2. Shape

- absolutely agree, it's OVAL!!! But does it mean that weapon should have the oval-shape surface or it means that while making penetration INTO the scalp, the object's BODY (not the tip) should have the oval-shape projection???!!! (IMO, I believe in underlined). What do I mean by 'oval-shape projection'? For example, the tip of the french bread by itself is not oval. But if you'll sliced it off - you'll see the oval. Another example would be the SIDE of the door knob. By the tip, it's not oval but by the body 'projection' - it's oval. Hope I made myself clear....

Bingo, OM4U! And yes, you did.

Another example would be the OVAL HEAD HAMMER used for jewelry-making and other hobbies (by the way, it could have the wood handle)....something like this:

http://phasic.manufacturer.globalso...welry-finding/1053873465/Oval-Head-Hammer.htm

I’ve never even seen one of these. But then I haven’t made much jewelry.

Anyway, thank you again, OTG!!!! Looking forward to see your 'virtual' weapon....I'm sure it'll be amazing!!!!

 

[KoldKase]

OTG, now you're just being a tease! Some of us aren't getting any younger! I'm not trying to be impatient, and I know little things like holidays interrupt our obsession with this case on occasion, but really! I even had to hunt you down over here to look for your big reveal...and now you're claiming Mrs. OTG is attached to your hip as an excuse to keep us hanging...?

Tic toc tic toc.... lease:

 

[Whaleshark]

I'm going to conjecture that otg's current thinking is that it's a bat...but I could be wrong.

 

[M.James]

I assume you mean the knob end of a bat?

I, of course, have no idea what object otg may have in mind. Although, my guess would be that it is a more definite object. Something with weight that could be swung (like a sinker on fishing line, some kinetic force), or something at the end of a long handle (yeah, I know).

The edge on the knob end of a baseball bat is more infinite, continually the same softly-flattened shape (more like a wedding band), which would make it an unlikely candidate (in my opinion) to match the skull damage that is shown. In other words, I don’t believe the shape could possibly bow to create that particular oval.
To make that shape with a bat, the knob would need to be rounded on the flat ends, and sharper on the edges (like a flying saucer).

Surviving many years of baseball and softball (with my husband, kids and self) I’ve never seen any bats like that. But, I wouldn’t state as fact that none have ever been made.

Although,
if knobs were commonly made saucer-shaped, how much force would have to’ve been used to get the full saucer shape? How far into a skull would the knob have to cut to get that effect? There is only a little space before a strong swing would meld into the handle of a bat shattering the effect of an oval.

Understand that this isn’t an argument against a bat causing the damage, but rather an observation on whether that oval came from the knob of an ordinary bat.
I believe if I pressed the knob end (sideways) of any bat I own into clay the shape would appear more rectangular than oval.

Thank you, you’ve made me have to stop and study a part of this case that I haven’t really thought that much about, yet.

 

[4Jacy]

I have always believed PR was suspious that JR was molesting JBR. I think PR had the mag flashlight in her bedroom, quitely made her way to JBR's room. She was so enraged when she found JR molesting JBR, she struck out with the flashlight, meaning to hit JR but hit JBR instead. There was no way this could be concealed, and so the cover up began.

 

[wengr]

Thanks for a facinating thread.
This is just screaming maglite to me. The handle end of the flashlight which contains the batteries. That is where the weight is, and as has been stated before, that is the portion that would be most effective as a weapon. It seems to me that the cylindrical shaft of an aluminum flashlight, upon breaching a somewhat spherical skull would leave an oval impression much like what is present.
Also as previously stated, why wipe fingerprints off of your own item?
And lastly concering the theory of spilled liquid having been the reason for the wipe - I do not know the exact model of maglite used here, but all that I have been familiar with are promoted as waterproof. To take it apart and wipe the batteries in reponse to minor exposure to liquid is possible, but it shows a lack of familiarity with the flashlight imo.

 

[dodie20]

I tend to think that we don't yet have an object that exactly fits with the head bash. In my opinion it would have to be something BR would have used to shut his sister up with. I just want to make one more point, it's a small detail, but it really bugs me when JB's rape is referred to as a "jab". Just my 2 cents worth...

It bothers me too, because I consider it rape, but medically speaking, I understand why it's referred to as a jab. It explains what happened to her, whereas the word rape might lead some people to think she had been full on raped by a pedophile/ rapist/intruder. IMO, what was done to JonBenet, might have been done not for gratification, but to give the allusion of an intruder, and to cover prior abuse...in other words, as a self serving act of preservation. But as far as the victim is concerned, it was rape. Speaking of allusions, IMO, I see signs of trying to frame a male. I, personally, would not have known that medical examiners could distinguish digital penetration from penal penetration, so I doubt the average non medically minded person would know either. Whoever did this, may have thought digital rape and a broken hymen would automatically point to a male perp. And since I don't see much reason for a male to fake another male, (which could come back on him), I think this sounds like the work of a woman. MOO, but once this idea got in my head, it wouldn't leave. Yes, it would take a slyness and premeditation that's hard to grasp, but what else is new? This whole case reeks of a slyness, that makes me sick at times. All Moo.

 

[DeeDee249]

In JB's case, her hymen wasn't so much broken as it was rubbed away (described as "erosion" in the autopsy). I suppose this is how he determined there had been no penile penetration. With that, the hymen would be torn.
And you are correct that technically penetration with ANYTHING is considered a rape.

 

[anne11]

Excellent thread OTG I'd only ever taken the autopsy word for word on the shape of the skull fracture but it does look more oval. I wonder how thoroughly her hair was checked for evidence, that brand of flashlight often leaves paint flecks behind

 

[Rashi'sDaughter]

In JB's case, her hymen wasn't so much broken as it was rubbed away (described as "erosion" in the autopsy). I suppose this is how he determined there had been no penile penetration. With that, the hymen would be torn.
And you are correct that technically penetration with ANYTHING is considered a rape.

Yes, exactly DeeDee. JB was raped by her brother, and possibly his friend, penis or no penis the result was the same.
My own opinion only.

 

[Nom de plume]

I've always leaned towards the flashlight. Just the fact that it was wiped down makes me suspicious.

I've also had personal experience with "Maglite meets head" and I can tell you it's not pretty. In my case it was a 6 cell (6 D batteries) Maglite where the end was sticking off of a shelf in my laundry room. I bent over to get laundry out of the sorter and WHAM! Right in the middle of the forehead. I saw stars and was dizzy for quite a while, although I had no open wound. Had a huge goose egg, my third eye, as the hub called it. Long story short, I ended up with plastic surgery weeks later to remove a large hematoma.

This was all just from banging my head on it. I know what kind of damage can be done by actually swinging one at someone or something. It may not actually be the weapon used, but a Maglite is certainly hard enough and heavy enough to do that kind of damage.