KC Borrow's CA's Car

[SuziQ]

I'm still catching up on this thread, so I don't know if this has been brought up. There are two things that tell me it was not Cindy's car Casey used.

Cindy needs her car to get to work. Her and George work different schedules.

There has been no mention that I've seen about how and when Cindy got her car back. I'm wondering if the car chase and and stealing Cindy's car happened on two different days. And George is incoporating it into one story, intentionally or not.

 

[Katana]

That's absolutely brilliant, WAISI! :clap:

• Casey knew Tony didn't like her driving his Jeep GC
• Casey KNEW <6/27 he'd EXPECT her to drop him @ the airport 6/30AM
• Casey HAD to come up with a way NOT to take Tony to the airport in the Pontiac owing to the smell & he'd want to put his stuff in the trunk (no body, just smell)
• Casey had to ENSURE the Pontiac alibi to Tony would jive with her not retrieving the Pontiac <6/30, hence, she tells Tony its broken-and-Dad'll-get-it vs. outta gas. Casey may run it outta gas just to ensure it won't start if Tony wants to try it himself when he rescues her 6/27.
• Casey didn't rush to gas up the Pontiac before 6/29 since she didn't want it back until 6/30 and her story to Tony was that George would handle it, so, she must've given him some story about needing his Jeep 6/29AM to go get something...she couldn't enlist his help for gas cans again...that would've busted her story.

Casey's plan didn't account for Amscot paying attention to the car.

Brilliant, Whyamisointerested, absolutely brilliant! I'm carrying this post over to the Pontiac thread for convenience. :bowdown:

You guys are really on to something! I have a question, though. Are you assuming Caylee was still in the trunk?

 

[SuziQ]

I think Casey definitely wanted to get the Pontiac also.I'm not going with the theory that she wanted it to get towed or stolen.But, was it left there on purpose that day so she could borrow TONE's and because she had to take him to the airport and she didn't want him in her car for obvious reasons.Did she have unfinished business? Things left in the car? or is this simple she obviously needed a car.??

This is the part that I really wonder about. Was Caylee still in the car when it was towed? That's exactly how the mother in (Nebraska?) was busted. She had gotten in a wreck while her son's body was still in the trunk. The car and the body sat in an impound lot for many weeks until DCF connected the dots and went to the towyard. The one thing that makes me think Caylee was not in the car is KC's text to AH about getting rid of the smell. Was that text on 6-25?

 

[BondJamesBond]

You guys are really on to something! I have a question, though. Are you assuming Caylee was still in the trunk?

Katana, IMHO, for this thread, its best to leave everyone to their own theories on whether or not Caylee was in the trunk during these events, 6/27-6/30. I understand why you're asking, and a case can be made for either, IMHO. I gave my opinion in the post you quoted.

More importantly, I think WhyamIsoInterested just NAILED what has been baffling me (and a few others I assume) on what motivated Casey's specific actions regarding the Pontiac 6/27-6/30 and what Casey's intentions were regarding retrieval. :clap: :sleuth: :clap:

 

[Katana]

Katana, IMHO, for this thread, its best to leave everyone to their own theories on whether or not Caylee was in the trunk during these events, 6/27-6/30. I understand why you're asking, and a case can be made for either, IMHO. I gave my opinion in the post you quoted.

More importantly, I think WhyamIsoInterested just NAILED what has been baffling me (and a few others I assume) on what motivated Casey's specific actions regarding the Pontiac 6/27-6/30 and what Casey's intentions were regarding retrieval. :clap: :sleuth: :clap:

I missed where you wrote, "no body." Okay. So, if she didn't want to take Tony to the airport in the smelly car then why didn't she just say she was busy during that time and he would have to get another ride?

 

[BondJamesBond]

The one thing that makes me think Caylee was not in the car is KC's text to AH about getting rid of the smell. Was that text on 6-25?

*snipped*

6/27 11:34AM Casey to Amy "There was definitely part of a dead animal plastered to the frame of my car."

I may be completely hosed regarding Casey's primary objective for going to G&C's first thing 6/29 being gas cans...I still think she went there in Tony's Jeep and "the chase" ensued...but maybe she was after something else besides gas cans...I dunno...maybe...maybe not. Immediately after "the chase" 6/29 she texts Amy, first cell activity of the day:

6/29 10:25AM Casey to Amy "Can I borrow you and your gas can today?"
6/29 10:49AM Amy to Casey "Storage hun. I was supposed to have my stuff out by now." [oh...the sweet justice of that reply ]
6/29 11:24AM Casey to Amy "S***. I forgot."

So...Casey dint bother trying to get gas/Pontiac Saturday 6/28, since it wouldn't fit w/ her alibi w/ Tony [brilliant, i'm tellin' ya, brilliant]

Casey's texting Amy 6/27 before her car [accidentally] runs outta gas "There was definitely part of a dead animal plastered to the frame of my car." was prolly just prepping Amy for the odor JUST IN CASE since Casey thought she'd get Amy to help her when the time was ok. Casey prolly thought she'd just borrow the gas can...not hafta tote Amy around though.

 

[BondJamesBond]

I missed where you wrote, "no body." Okay. So, if she didn't want to take Tony to the airport in the smelly car then why didn't she just say she was busy during that time and he would have to get another ride?

She coulda tried that Monday morning...but Tony's a smart guy...he coulda just rolled over in the bed when they woke up at his apartment and said, "BS! You're takin' me!"

 

[Whyamisointerested]

I missed where you wrote, "no body." Okay. So, if she didn't want to take Tony to the airport in the smelly car then why didn't she just say she was busy during that time and he would have to get another ride?

I'm thinking she did want to take Tony to the airport and she also wanted access to his car while he was gone. She couldn't take him in her car because of the obvious smell, if she would've have taken him in the car he wouldn't have given her keys for his car. -"Smart"- she devised a plan to get his car while he was gone, to check on things , disguise herself and get away from the smell.

 

[donnam]

respectfully snipped

I really, really think if Cindy was able to fully and completely realize and understand Casey killed Caylee, and Casey happened to be within reach of her, I think Cindy would kill her dead. That's just the vibe I get from the things I have heard and read. I've just gone over and over all this, and the only conclusion I can personally come to about Cindy and the way she has behaved through most of this is it isn't about protecting Casey, it is about twisting every conceivable thing she can to keep herself from facing Caylee is dead and never coming back.

I agree with you here.

 

[BondJamesBond]

I'm thinking she did want to take Tony to the airport and she also wanted access to his car while he was gone. She couldn't take him in her car because of the obvious smell, if she would've have taken him in the car he wouldn't have given her keys for his car. -"Smart"- she devised a plan to get his car while he was gone, to check on things , disguise herself and get away from the smell.

...and the juxtaposition of how well her plan started against how crappy it turned out Monday when the Pontiac went on its 'lil journey to the tow yard its su-uh-uh-uh-weeeet.

 

[okiedokietoo]

Bolded by me.

GA was trying to concoct a story where the car was around right before the "smell" appeared so it could not have been a dead body in the car in the early days of Caylee missing.

I always have given GA the benefit of the doubt but this is very enlightening for me to realize he is bs'ing too.

Why would KC come to get gas cans w/TL and risk being seen even after she caught on the 24th with the gas cans by GA. Why would she want gas for a car that she abandoned. Did she mean to go back and get it? This is important. If she intended to go back, why didn't she. If she did not intend to go back, why did she leave her purse?

(karenz quote bolded by me)

GA plays the fool.

 

[donnam]

I completely agree with this. GA never banked on CA actually tracking down Casey and calling LE. We know GA never had any intention of calling LE. He knew at the towyard what situation he had on his hands and didn't call LE at that point. He knew a dead body had been in that car. But he chose to drive the car home, hide it in the garage, and tamper with evidence of a murder.

ETA: GA also never mentioned one word about the smell until Cindy asked him about it in their garage.

Yes he did. He said in one of the interviews that he was on the phone with CA while he was driving and he told her the car smelled horrible and he didn't know if he could drive it home. She told him she would drive it, but, he ended up driving it home. So she also knew it smelled before it got into the garage.

 

[SuziQ]

*snipped*

6/27 11:34AM Casey to Amy "There was definitely part of a dead animal plastered to the frame of my car."

I may be completely hosed regarding Casey's primary objective for going to G&C's first thing 6/29 being gas cans...I still think she went there in Tony's Jeep and "the chase" ensued...but maybe she was after something else besides gas cans...I dunno...maybe...maybe not. Immediately after "the chase" 6/29 she texts Amy, first cell activity of the day:

6/29 10:25AM Casey to Amy "Can I borrow you and your gas can today?"
6/29 10:49AM Amy to Casey "Storage hun. I was supposed to have my stuff out by now." [oh...the sweet justice of that reply ]
6/29 11:24AM Casey to Amy "S***. I forgot."

So...Casey dint bother trying to get gas/Pontiac Saturday 6/28, since it wouldn't fit w/ her alibi w/ Tony [brilliant, i'm tellin' ya, brilliant]

Casey's texting Amy 6/27 before her car [accidentally] runs outta gas "There was definitely part of a dead animal plastered to the frame of my car." was prolly just prepping Amy for the odor JUST IN CASE since Casey thought she'd get Amy to help her when the time was ok. Casey prolly thought she'd just borrow the gas can...not hafta tote Amy around though.

Casey sent that text after the car ran out of gas right? I always wondered why Casey would offer up an excuse for the smell before she needed to. This makes sense. There was no guarantee that Amy wouldn't get close to Casey's car while helping her with the gas situation.

 

[Katana]

I thought the same thing. GA was trying to place KC in CA's car just in case something came back as evidence. Maybe Caylee was still in KC's trunk when they retrieved the car from the towyard. George found her, put her in CA's car, and disposed of the body. This would also explain why GA went to work assuming he eventually did go to work that day. He wanted to be accounted for somewhere outside of the home and away from the situation. Sort of like creating an alibi.

I just thought of something else. Maybe George didn't find Caylee in the trunk. Maybe he found other things that needed to be disposed of. I think George cleaned the car knowing how to get rid of DNA evidence. He then placed items from the trunk in Cindy's car and dumped them. He was careful and cleaned Cindy's car after but, was still worried so he used the chase story to place Casey in the car just in case. I just think he went to work that day because of guilt and the need to create an alibi. Whereas Cindy was still trying to figure everything out so she was emotional and in crisis mode.

I think this case is confusing because we assume GA, CA, and LA are on the same page. However, I think GA kept a lot from Cindy. I think he smelled the car on June 24th (also, may have seen something) and I think he found things in the trunk on July 15th that Cindy didn't know about (and still doesn't). KC may have told LA things that is not known by GA and CA. I think they are all covering for KC but, also covering for themselves in their own way.

 

[SuziQ]

Yes he did. He said in one of the interviews that he was on the phone with CA while he was driving and he told her the car smelled horrible and he didn't know if he could drive it home. She told him she would drive it, but, he ended up driving it home. So she also knew it smelled before it got into the garage.

Thank you for the clarification. I had completely forgotten about that. Wonder what they talked about?

 

[SuziQ]

She coulda tried that Monday morning...but Tony's a smart guy...he coulda just rolled over in the bed when they woke up at his apartment and said, "BS! You're takin' me!"

Or he would have gotten pissed and not let her use his car she needed so badly to use. And if he would have parked his car in airport parking she would not have had his car to use. So she offers up her generosity to insure she has the car to use.

ETA: Confirms my thoughts regarding Cindy's statement that Casey cares about people and is quick to help them. IMO, anyone in need is her next victim.

 

[dsd07]

I just thought of something else. Maybe George didn't find Caylee in the trunk. Maybe he found other things that needed to be disposed of. I think George cleaned the car knowing how to get rid of DNA evidence. He then placed items from the trunk in Cindy's car and dumped them. He was careful and cleaned Cindy's car after but, was still worried so he used the chase story to place Casey in the car just in case. I just think he went to work that day because of guilt and the need to create an alibi. Whereas Cindy was still trying to figure everything out so she was emotional and in crisis mode.

I think this case is confusing because we assume GA, CA, and LA are on the same page. However, I think GA kept a lot from Cindy. I think he smelled the car on June 24th (also, may have seen something) and I think he found things in the trunk on July 15th that Cindy didn't know about (and still doesn't). KC may have told LA things that is not known by GA and CA. I think they are all covering for KC but, also covering for themselves in their own way.

This seems very plausible.

 

[Theonly1]

That's absolutely brilliant, WAISI! :clap:

• Casey knew Tony didn't like her driving his Jeep GC
• Casey KNEW <6/27 he'd EXPECT her to drop him @ the airport 6/30AM
• Casey HAD to come up with a way NOT to take Tony to the airport in the Pontiac owing to the smell & he'd want to put his stuff in the trunk (no body, just smell)
• Casey had to ENSURE the Pontiac alibi to Tony would jive with her not retrieving the Pontiac <6/30, hence, she tells Tony its broken-and-Dad'll-get-it vs. outta gas. Casey may run it outta gas just to ensure it won't start if Tony wants to try it himself when he rescues her 6/27.
• Casey didn't rush to gas up the Pontiac before 6/29 since she didn't want it back until 6/30 and her story to Tony was that George would handle it, so, she must've given him some story about needing his Jeep 6/29AM to go get something...she couldn't enlist his help for gas cans again...that would've busted her story.

Casey's plan didn't account for Amscot paying attention to the car.

Brilliant, Whyamisointerested, absolutely brilliant! I'm carrying this post over to the Pontiac thread for convenience. :bowdown:

I stated almost exactly the same thing in another post (last month) that essentially:

* Casey knew TL was going to need a ride to the airport
* She did not want him in HER smelly car and she needed a non-stink ride, so...
* She leaves it at the Amscot with the story that it's out of gas and messed up so that she has his car while he's gone

I don't buy the story that TL really did not like her to use his car because we have her (while he IS IN TOWN) using his car for dally out at Chris S's house.

 

[okiedokietoo]

I just thought of something else. Maybe George didn't find Caylee in the trunk. Maybe he found other things that needed to be disposed of. I think George cleaned the car knowing how to get rid of DNA evidence. He then placed items from the trunk in Cindy's car and dumped them. He was careful and cleaned Cindy's car after but, was still worried so he used the chase story to place Casey in the car just in case. I just think he went to work that day because of guilt and the need to create an alibi. Whereas Cindy was still trying to figure everything out so she was emotional and in crisis mode.

I think this case is confusing because we assume GA, CA, and LA are on the same page. However, I think GA kept a lot from Cindy. I think he smelled the car on June 24th (also, may have seen something) and I think he found things in the trunk on July 15th that Cindy didn't know about (and still doesn't). KC may have told LA things that is not known by GA and CA. I think they are all covering for KC but, also covering for themselves in their own way.

Agree although if they disposed of evidence that's another thing. It is really odd that they did not immediately call LE? Why?

 

[donnam]

There is one small thing that gets in the way of the theory that GA found the body in the trunk at the towyard.
The guy that worked there was right next to GA as he opened the trunk. The guy is the one that removed the bag and said here is where the smell is coming from and threw it out.
The guy told the same story GA did to LE.