Found Safe KY - Charlee Campbell, 2, *autistic* & Pitbull Terrier Named Penny, Bullitt County, 7 Jun 2018

[Truth Prevails]

I’m pretty sure it was the cousin that sent grandma the text twenty minutes after he left. That’s why the sheriff wants to look at both of their phones.

Yes, you are correct. You can hear the sheriff tell about it around the -9:00 minute mark in the video above.

Sorry for any confusion.

 

[creepcrusher]

Yes, you are correct. You can hear the sheriff tell about it around the -9:00 minute mark in the video above.

Sorry for any confusion.

No worries!

 

[4SAM]

You are thinking about Crystal Rogers.
KY - KY - Crystal Rogers, 35, Bluegrass Parkway, 3 July 2015 #2

I was thinking of this one
KY KY - Susan Riedling, 18, Shepherdsville, 31 March 1986
Discussion in '1980's Missing' started by SheWhoMustNotBeNamed, Mar 29, 2011.

 

[mom2four717]

Has there been any forensic information shared?
I am very curious of lost in the woods vs being "cared for" by somebody.

 

[IceIce9]

Check this out - a 3 year old Missouri girl was missing overnight and her dog, a Yorkie, stayed beside her the entire time. She was found when the search dogs began barking and her dog barked in reply!
Missing 3-year-old found in cornfield, dog at her side

 

[Truth Prevails]

Check this out - a 3 year old Missouri girl was missing overnight and her dog, a Yorkie, stayed beside her the entire time. She was found when the search dogs began barking and her dog barked in reply!
Missing 3-year-old found in cornfield, dog at her side

Oh, yes. These wonderful stories happen, there is no doubt about it.

In Charlee's case, though, there are a couple of things that stand out for me:

1) As they searched they called Penny's name, but there was no response from Penny. There should have been. But the fact that Penny stayed gone the whole time suggests to me that she was with Charlee. Penny could have ripped anyone apart that had her and tried to hold her against her will--nothing but a bullet would have prevented it. So she is a hero to me--I think she stayed quietly and calmly with Charlee, helping and watching her, and led her to help when the time came.

And much more importantly, there is the following quote from the sheriff that would make any person in law enforcement concerned:

Sheriff: ... Ronnie doesn’t—to my knowledge—have anything to do with drugs. I think his wife has a drug addiction problem. The mother, Natalie, told me that she confronted the mother two weeks ago about her drug use and if she doesn’t clean her act up that she was going to pursue—in court—custody of that child. So, it makes me suspicious again that there was a custody issue and did somebody do something stupid thinking they want to make Beth and Ronnie look bad that the lost the child and gee that would favor me in court. Now is it that? I don’t know, but I’m suspicious of it.


Reporter: Who was doing meth?


Sheriff: RB was. Yes—he admitted it.


Reporter: And Beth Campbell?


Sheriff: Yes, those are the two.


Reporter: And Beth admitted it, too?


Sheriff: I don’t think Beth has ever admitted to use at the home. But Beth did lie to me on a couple of occasions. And when people lie to you, there is a reason that they lie to you.

See post 470 for the link.

Now, I'm aware that Beth finally admitted to a relapse during the hearing. However, I'd call admitting it at that time a day late and a dollar short.

 

[IceIce9]

Oh, yes. These wonderful stories happen, there is no doubt about it.

In Charlee's case, though, there are a couple of things that stand out for me:

1) As they searched they called Penny's name, but there was no response from Penny. There should have been. But the fact that Penny stayed gone the whole time suggests to me that she was with Charlee. Penny could have ripped anyone apart that had her and tried to hold her against her will--nothing but a bullet would have prevented it. So she is a hero to me--I think she stayed quietly and calmly with Charlee, helping and watching her, and led her to help when the time came.
.

What was in my mind the entire time they were missing was why didn’t Penny bark when the searchers were calling? And when she heard the the search dogs barking, why didn’t she bark in return to alert them to their location? Dogs have excellent hearing, she should have heard the searchers and dogs from far away.

Especially after the comment from the sheriff that they had searched the hill where she cane fien five times, I feel like someone hid her in a building or home, then released her shortly before she was found. The custody issue seems to make sense in this scenario, with the mom’s husband perhaps hiding the girl and then releasing her, maybe to prove that grandma was negligent and then Mom could get custody back.

Wherever Charlee was, I think Penny refused to leave her side.

 

[2Hope4]

What was in my mind the entire time they were missing was why didn’t Penny bark when the searchers were calling? And when she heard the the search dogs barking, why didn’t she bark in return to alert them to their location? Dogs have excellent hearing, she should have heard the searchers and dogs from far away.

Especially after the comment from the sheriff that they had searched the hill where she cane fien five times, I feel like someone hid her in a building or home, then released her shortly before she was found. The custody issue seems to make sense in this scenario, with the mom’s husband perhaps hiding the girl and then releasing her, maybe to prove that grandma was negligent and then Mom could get custody back.

Wherever Charlee was, I think Penny refused to leave her side.

But Penny DID leave her side. Penny went home. Charlee went to a neighbor. It makes me wonder if Penny wasn't kept somewhere and released. Maybe they weren't together. Penny could have been in a building and the door got shut.

I do think Charlee was wandering, and it IS possible it was for the entire time, though I can see why the sheriff has many questions as well. It's also possible Charlee was taken somewhere, but by people she knows, and then released near the neighbor or into woods. She obviously was outside at some point while she was missing. I don't know why she wasn't heard crying at any time though. That's what really puzzles me. Most children will cry for a parent/grandparent/guardian when they are tired, scared, etc. Most children aren't found of being by themselves in the middle of the night, outside... Some kids have no fear though. And if the homelife was unstable, maybe she was use to being alone, entertaining herself, or getting up at night and playing.

 

[IceIce9]

But Penny DID leave her side. Penny went home. Charlee went to a neighbor. It makes me wonder if Penny wasn't kept somewhere and released. Maybe they weren't together. Penny could have been in a building and the door got shut.

I do think Charlee was wandering, and it IS possible it was for the entire time, though I can see why the sheriff has many questions as well. It's also possible Charlee was taken somewhere, but by people she knows, and then released near the neighbor or into woods. She obviously was outside at some point while she was missing. I don't know why she wasn't heard crying at any time though. That's what really puzzles me. Most children will cry for a parent/grandparent/guardian when they are tired, scared, etc. Most children aren't found of being by themselves in the middle of the night, outside... Some kids have no fear though. And if the homelife was unstable, maybe she was use to being alone, entertaining herself, or getting up at night and playing.

So, didn’t grandma make a comment something like, “When I saw my dog Penny coming over the hill I knew Charlee wasn’t far behind” or something similar? Sorry, I am headed out and don’t have time to dig for the exact quote.

Could that maybe indicate that Grandma knew Penny was being held somewhere and had been released, as Penny had been released and had headed for home?

Maybe text messages had been exchanged between grandma and Mom, and Mom and husband, advising that Charlee would soon be found? I am very suspicious of mom’s husband returning to the woods several times during the search.

Thus whole deal is so odd, with so many possible scenarios that could have been played out.

Maybe Charlee was taken from the home, Penny wouldn’t leave her side, so Penny had been shut in a shed or basement or something and released at the time Charlee was released near the neighbor’s house to wander to the house and be “found.”

I am hoping the ticks found on Charlee are studied, this could be an important clue to solving this mystery. Especially if there were no ticks on Penny it could indicate that they were not together the entire time. And the degree of engorgement and attachment to Charlee (and Penny, if any ticks were on her) could be used to determine the time she was in the woods.

 

[IceIce9]

Also I think the fact that the sheriff wanted the cell phones turned over is very telling. He must know or suspect that text messages were exchanged during the time Charlee was missing.

 

[Seajay]

I'm still interested in the forensics testing of Charlee's stomach contents to see if she was given anything to eat in the hours she was missing. That would definitely point to someone having her during that time and her not wandering and being in the woods while she was missing.

 

[IceIce9]

Also, why did four cadaver dogs hit on the pool?

I have been reading articles and studies regarding success rate of cadaver dogs. Four dogs hitting independently on the pool would indicate a high probability of something being there.

 

[Alleykins]

Faithful dog stays with missing 3-year-old found in cornfield

Another child gone missing overnight & found, protected by her dog.

 

[PhoneJockey]

My question is how long can a cadaver dog hit on a place after a body has been moved? I realize there would be tons of variables, but what are some averages if anyone knows off the top of their heads?

 

[creepcrusher]

I'm curious if someone is buried under the pool.

 

[IceIce9]

My question is how long can a cadaver dog hit on a place after a body has been moved? I realize there would be tons of variables, but what are some averages if anyone knows off the top of their heads?

I don’t know the answer to this but I hope LE is able to search the pool and around the pool.

What could have happened in or around the pool that would cause four cadaver dogs, each working independently, to hit on the pool? One dog even jumped in the pool.

How likely is it that four cadaver dogs would make a mistake?

 

[MsMarple]

My question is how long can a cadaver dog hit on a place after a body has been moved? I realize there would be tons of variables, but what are some averages if anyone knows off the top of their heads?

I don’t know the answer to this but I hope LE is able to search the pool and around the pool.

What could have happened in or around the pool that would cause four cadaver dogs, each working independently, to hit on the pool? One dog even jumped in the pool.

How likely is it that four cadaver dogs would make a mistake?

I don't know either but I'm afraid that if the sheriff couldn't get a search warrant for the adults' cell phones he probably couldn't get one for the pool either.

My limited understanding of cadaver dogs is that they can sniff out really old decomp. I vaguely remember reading about dogs finding something like a 100 year old skull. I think a lot depends on the dog and how well it has been trained.

All 4 dogs hitting on the same spot tells me there's something under that pool - we just don't know what it is and may never know. MOO.

Some info:

If the dog has the proper training in picking up the full range of scents of human decomposition, his accuracy rate is about 95 percent, said Sharon Ward, a cadaver dog trainer in Portland, Ore.

"So if a dog says it's there, there's a darn good chance it is," she said tonight. "They're pretty darn accurate."

A New York State Police cadaver dog alerted twice in the same area Monday outside a cabin in Mexico where Oswego County sheriff's investigators are looking for the remains of 1994 kidnap victim Heidi Allen, according to a lawyer for the man imprisoned on a conviction of kidnapping her.

The dog indicated it smelled a body in an area around a fresh footprint, Federal Public Defender Lisa Peebles said she was told by Oswego County District Attorney Greg Oakes.

The footprint is unlikely the source of the scent the dog picked up, Ward said.

Experts: Cadaver dogs 95 percent accurate, can smell remains 15 feet underground

But how good are dogs at detecting a skeleton from which all the flesh has fallen away? The anthropologist Keith Jacobi of the University of Alabama has investigated this at a police-dog training facility, where human remains ranging from fresh to skeletonised have been buried (the remains were bequeathed by donors).

In one study involving four dogs and their handlers, Jacobi says the dogs were able to detect remains at all stages of decomposition. Performance varied between dogs, but some could locate skeletonised remains buried in an area of 300ft by 150ft. "The few single human vertebrae I used in the study were well over 25 years old, and dry bone," Jacobi says. "This made the discovery of one of these vertebrae, which we buried in dense woods 2ft deep, by a cadaver dog pretty remarkable."

The CSI death dogs: Sniffing out the truth behind the crime-scene

 

[MariaGG]

Has great grandma been considered for custody of Charlee? She is the only one that appears to have a little bit of sense.

Also, she doesn’t appear to be old as we think great-grandmothers are. Apparently the women in this family have children at a very young age!

Great grandmother looks younger than Grandmother!

 

[Aescwynn]

Yeah, the differences in ages in this case have me laughing for sure.
This case: Grandma is 40 and has a 2-year-old grandchild.
Me: I am nearly 52 and have one child who is 12.

 

[Tortoise]

Why did the Sheriff maintain hopes of finding Charlee alive after the cadaver dogs hit on the pool? I know we're interested in the pool but are LE even interested? If they were I'm sure they would have requested a warrant to search that pool urgently. Was it even taped off as a crime scene?