Found Deceased KY - Savannah Spurlock, 22, left 'The Other Bar' with 2 men, Richmond, 4 Jan 2019 #5 *Arrest*

[ab01]

I read the forensic definition of unnatural position or abnormal position when a body is discovered or uncovered, and found it quite revealing, and fascinating. First, I didn't know that description was one used by forensic death investigators, and I always enjoy learning something new.

Anyway pretty much the body is in a position that defies gravity when found. Example. The body wasn't laying flat down on the back or face down, but placed in an abnormal position with certain extremities or limbs in an abnormal position which would defy gravity.

Lividity plays a large part in determining unnatural positions it seems because of gravity the lividity pooling in the muscle, and tissue, etc. would be found on the remains closest to the ground in a normal expected position correlating with how the body was found.

Such as if the body was placed on it's back then lividity should always be found on the backside of the victim. Also all extremities should be also in that position whether placed face down, face up or on its side. Etc.

In forensics in abnormal positioned bodies the lividity or extremities does not line up with the way the body was positioned when found.

At least that is what I understood from reading the forensic definition specifically used by MEs or death investigators when determining whether its unnatural or abnormal positioning of discovered remains vs. normal expected positioning that lines up with exactly how the body was found.

Jmho

I agree that she didn’t put herself there

 

[PayrollNerd]

I read the forensic definition of unnatural position or abnormal position when a body is discovered or uncovered, and found it quite revealing, and fascinating. First, I didn't know that description was one used by forensic death investigators, and I always enjoy learning something new.

Anyway pretty much the body is in a position that defies gravity when found. Example. The body wasn't laying flat down on the back or face down, but placed in an abnormal position with certain extremities or limbs in an abnormal position which would defy gravity.

Lividity plays a large part in determining unnatural positions it seems because of gravity the lividity pooling in the muscle, and tissue, etc. would be found on the remains closest to the ground in a normal expected position correlating with how the body was found.

Such as if the body was placed on it's back then lividity should always be found on the backside of the victim. Also all extremities should be also in that position whether placed face down, face up or on its side. Etc.

In forensics in abnormal positioned bodies the lividity or extremities does not line up with the way the body was positioned when found.

At least that is what I understood from reading the forensic definition specifically used by MEs or death investigators when determining whether its unnatural or abnormal positioning of discovered remains vs. normal expected positioning that lines up with exactly how the body was found.

Jmho

Great post. Thats exactly what I was thinking too. Wherever she was initially, in whatever position, will be how the body fluids pooled. It will be obvious to a pro that she had been moved. Her body is not going to move fluidly when taken from one location to another. Thats why I think it was a chest freezer that stopped working. If the perp stored her body in one location, in say a flat position then moved the body into a fetal position, its going to be obvious.

 

[oviedo]

I agree that she didn’t put herself there

snipped
. Unidentified remains were discovered that night "concealed in an unnatural position beneath the surface of the ground," the citation states.
Human remains found on Kentucky property identified as missing mom Savannah Spurlock, police announce

I've been looking and haven't run across a detailed description yet of what she was concealed in - I think I read here that it was some type of container - I wonder if it had markings and they can trace it? Very curious about the movements of the suspect Jan 5 - July 12 - do you think they have cell phone records yet?

 

[distracted]

It’s been a while, so trying to refresh my memory. Sparks didn’t live with his parents when Savannah went missing. But moved in with them afterwards?
But they searched his parents place earlier. So did he put her body at his parents?
Why would he do that? In your parents backyard?
And he hid her so well his parents and LE never saw anything different or disturbed earth/dirt/etc.

Maybe she was moved there recently. If it had been searched before, he might have considered it safe from being found there.

I have a feeling she was in a container of some sort. LE wasn't there long enough to do an exhumation that quickly.

And I'm with everyone else who doubts this was an accident.

 

[ValhallaWolves]

In all the cases I’ve followed, I’ve yet to see an “accident” where the body was concealed and lied about.

Accidents happen. That’s what 911 is for- anyone who DOESNT have the capacity to murder someone, would say, oh gosh I need to call 911.

 

[rsd1200]

I think we actually talked about it early on in the threads but they definitely can be charged. KY has a Good Samaritan law that keeps people from getting in trouble when reporting an OD. However, not long ago, they also started federally charging people who were proven to be the source of drugs that caused the OD. Typically, it’s used for dealers. There were a few stories around the state not long before Savannah disappeared about dealers and at least one dr being charged federally for OD’s.

Yes. This is why many overdose deaths are found alone in their homes, or the homes are cleaned prior to calling in an o.d., and, in the case of young people partying, disposing of the body. Especially if the other person is high too. High people don't make good choices, and then, after coming down, how to explain? Idk what happened, but there is a chance that it was not deliberate. There is also a chance that something was given to her, in a way that she didn't know about, and she later died. There's also a chance that it was deliberate. We just don't know right now and may never know unless one or both of the other two were there and can fill in blanks. Hopefully the autopsy will help fill in some blanks as well.

 

[NervousNellie]

Maybe she was moved there recently. If it had been searched before, he might have considered it safe from being found there.

I have a feeling she was in a container of some sort. LE wasn't there long enough to do an exhumation that quickly.

And I'm with everyone else who doubts this was an accident.

RBBM.

Per the press conference in the quoted post below, her remains were believed to have been in the location they were found for some time (i.e., not recently moved). I don't remember the exact wording, but it's in there.

Chad K. Mills‏Verified account @ChadKMills
.@kystatepolice confirms human remains found last night in Garrard County, because of tip, are those of Savannah Spurlock, who’s been missing since January. @WDRBNews

1:06 PM - 11 Jul 2019 pst

Edited for typo.

 

[oceanblueeyes]

I agree that she didn’t put herself there

Hi there.

I think we all know that, but I'm at a loss what that has to do with the forensic definition differences between normal, and unnatural or abnormal positioning?

Imoo

 

[J Block]

Or

Re the odor:

If it had been present for a long time, don’t you think it’s likely a neighbor would’ve smelled it too? Or a visitor to the home? Or delivery person, repair person, mail carrier, just random person driving by? Assuming most neighbors knew this property had been searched, knew the son was one of the last people seen with her and shared in suspicion she was still on the property. It hard to imagine the homeowner just noticed the odor and no one nearby reported it.

Could it be that the container she was in had been sealed and undisturbed until recently, thus releasing the odor now?

Or ... Could the one piece of probable cause needed to dig up the yard, simply be a “phone call” from someone close to the property, stating there’s an odor that’s not unlike that of a decomposing human coming from the curtilage of that particular home ?

Simply put - Police (having an idea exactly where they think body is): “we need a phone-in tip that someone smells a dead body on the property. Arrangement said call. Get a warrant. Respond to property. Kind of smells like ‘something’. Ok, get additional warrant. Dig”.

 

[wary]

Or


Or ... Could the one piece of probable cause needed to dig up the yard, simply be a “phone call” from someone close to the property, stating there’s an odor that’s not unlike that of a decomposing human coming from the curtilage of that particular home ?

Simply put - Police (having an idea exactly where they think body is): “we need a phone-in tip that someone smells a dead body on the property. Arrangement said call. Get a warrant. Respond to property. Kind of smells like ‘something’. Ok, get additional warrant. Dig”.

Except—hasn’t MSM said that the tipster was the person who owned the property, who wouldn’t need that sort of subterfuge?

 

[ab01]

Hi there.

I think we all know that, but I'm at a loss what that has to do with the forensic definition differences between normal, and unnatural or abnormal positioning?

Imoo

Yep we will just have to wait and see. Personally I think that the remains were decomposed enough that they could only tell that she was placed in such a way that foul play was involved. I don't believe the phrase used had any thing to do with them knowing that she had been moved from a different place of storage. It would have been to early to make that determination at that point IMO

Now it could mean that rigor had set in before she was buried or concealed what have you, but I still believe that she was placed on that property within days of her death and not months. I still think it just has more to do with she was positioned in such away that it showed that her body had been manipulated after death. moo without getting too graphic


JMO

 

[oceanblueeyes]

Or


Or ... Could the one piece of probable cause needed to dig up the yard, simply be a “phone call” from someone close to the property, stating there’s an odor that’s not unlike that of a decomposing human coming from the curtilage of that particular home ?

Simply put - Police (having an idea exactly where they think body is): “we need a phone-in tip that someone smells a dead body on the property. Arrangement said call. Get a warrant. Respond to property. Kind of smells like ‘something’. Ok, get additional warrant. Dig”.

I believe LE when they said a tip came in that led them to the property. We now know who called in the tip, and who owns the property.

I haven't seen anything saying the odor being smelled when the tip was called in wasn't true. In fact I do believe it was in fact true.

Why the odor was able to be smelled months later will be determined by the investigators in the ongoing investigation. There are many variables why it may have been emitting an odor months later. LE will determine why.

I do not believe a SW was even needed because IMO the property owner allowed them to search without one.

Now they may have gotten one to make sure all evidence removed from the scene will not have any reason to be contested by this suspect's defense attorney as the case progresses.

But there is no reason to believe the odor being smelled wasn't a legitiment tip.

An aside: I believe the ME removed SS inside the sealed container to make sure they also had soil samples with the remains which are very important in knowing how long she had been in that particular area. This can be determined by the bug, and insect infestation even if some were dead. It's a valuable tool often used in investigations like this by the ME when the victim is found below the surface.

They also can determine if there are different soils in the grave that isn't in that area, but is typically seen in another area.

The environment changes the soil depending on where it is, and when the vegetation, trees etc. are different for different areas. The soil composite can change even in areas relatively close to each other.

Imo

 

[Kittybunny]

Just catching up on this case with this somewhat surprising and sad ending. Surprising only because she was there the whole time, as many of us suspected. It is rather depressing that she was not found during the initial search, but it happens. And at least there is closure for her family now.

Condolences and comfort to her family and friends in this difficult time.

 

[oceanblueeyes]

Yep we will just have to wait and see. Personally I think that the remains were decomposed enough that they could only tell that she was placed in such a way that foul play was involved. I don't believe the phrase used had any thing to do with them knowing that she had been moved from a different place of storage. It would have been to early to make that determination at that point IMO

Now it could mean that rigor had set in before she was buried or concealed what have you, but I still believe that she was placed on that property within days of her death and not months. I still think it just has more to do with she was positioned in such away that it showed that her body had been manipulated after death. moo without getting too graphic


JMO

I understand.

But for me at least I always pay very close attention to the terminology used in every case.

Its said because it is a significant finding, and in this case it was said because it has significance to the investigation/investigators.

Imo how she was found was not typical in what LE normally sees.

What that forensic terminology means to the investigators will be further determined as more investigation uncovers more evidence supporting it.

It was not said for nothing imo. There is a forensic difference in an unnatural position. Imo LE knew when observing the remains she was in an unnatural position instead of what is normally seen with buried bodies.

That's all I'm trying to say.

Jmho

 

[oceanblueeyes]

OT:

Oh goodness its suddenly turned pitch dark here, and it's only 4:10. The winds are picking up.

I think we are in the first round of severe storms for the southern east coast states from Barry.

Anyone in these areas please be safe, and alert.

Jmo

 

[Elliot_Alderson]

OT:

Oh goodness its suddenly turned pitch dark here, and it's only 4:10. The winds are picking up.

I think we are in the first round of severe storms for the southern east coast states from Barry.

Anyone in these areas please be safe, and alert.

Jmo

You stay safe as well!

 

[bwt42]

What is known. SS left bar with 3 men. She was seen on camera at Price Court. I assume she was with the 3 men at this location. If something happened to her at Price Court, which has close neighbors, burying her there would not be practical. She was found on Fall Lick road. DS was basically charged with moving her body.

 

[Tillicum]

I need to go back and look at the images of the outbuilding behind the house. At our old farm we had an orchard and raised most of our vegetables for the year. Inside our outbuildings, we dug holes and put non working chest freezers inside them. When the freezers were closed, the lid was level with the top of the dirt floor. We stored our apples, potatoes, cabbages etc. in these freezers. Our grandparents did the same. A lot of old timers did it using different containers for the storage. I wouldn't be surprised if it was a similar situation in that outbuilding if it has a dirt floor in it. If the container was no longer used, it would be simple to stack tools or whatever on top of it and no one would know it was there. All JMO.

 

[Tyra1003]

OT:

Oh goodness its suddenly turned pitch dark here, and it's only 4:10. The winds are picking up.

I think we are in the first round of severe storms for the southern east coast states from Barry.

Anyone in these areas please be safe, and alert.

Jmo

New Iberia here....and very windy.

 

[wary]

I believe LE when they said a tip came in that led them to the property. We now know who called in the tip, and who owns the property.

I haven't seen anything saying the odor being smelled when the tip was called in wasn't true. In fact I do believe it was in fact true.

Why the odor was able to be smelled months later will be determined by the investigators in the ongoing investigation. There are many variables why it may have been emitting an odor months later. LE will determine why.

I do not believe a SW was even needed because IMO the property owner allowed them to search without one.

Now they may have gotten one to make sure all evidence removed from the scene will not have any reason to be contested by this suspect's defense attorney as the case progresses.

But there is no reason to believe the odor being smelled wasn't a legitiment tip.

An aside: I believe the ME removed SS inside the sealed container to make sure they also had soil samples with the remains which are very important in knowing how long she had been in that particular area. This can be determined by the bug, and insect infestation even if some were dead. It's a valuable tool often used in investigations like this by the ME when the victim is found below the surface.

They also can determine if there are different soils in the grave that isn't in that area, but is typically seen in another area.

The environment changes the soil depending on where it is, and when the vegetation, trees etc. are different for different areas. The soil composite can change even in areas relatively close to each other.

Imo

The night of the search, LE said they were waiting for a search warrant. (I agree with you that, even with the owner’s permission, they’d want to dot the i’s and cross the t’s, as they looked ahead to an eventual trial.)