KY KY - Scottsville, WhtMale 20-30, UP95, knee injury, poss drug abuser, Aug'83

[SuperSleuth39]

Has Edward Hale Tidwell been ruled out yet?? He went missing on December 14, 1981 and it is still an open case. He was 31 years old, 5'11 - 6'1 in height (Not an exact match on the height of the found remains, but who knows), and about 160 in weight. He had brown hair, blue eyes, scars on his right knee and right arm, a surgical scar on his abdomen, and another scar on his upper left abdomen from a stabbing incident. He has had his nose broken several times and has a tattoo that says "13 1/2 / 12 jury" (meaning 12 jurors, one judge and half a chance, although records state he has never had a criminal record). He was from Marion, but was on the way to Sturgis for a "job", but many think it was to purchase alcohol. He worked as a river deckhand for quite sometime, but when he went missing, he was unenployed. He was known to possibly be associated with the mob, so it's possible he could have died a tragically violent death, such as this victim went through. We would really love to know what happened to Mr. Edward Tidwell, so please keep us updated!! Thank you so much again!!!
-SuperSleuth39

 

[theshadow45]

Welcome to Websleuths, SuperSleuth39 :welcome:! Edward Tidwell isn't listed as a rule out via NamUs but I'm not sure whether he was ever submitted. One thing that makes him look like a good possibility as he is noted as having a scar on his right knee and the UID is believed to have had a previous injury to the same knee. Charley Project profile: http://www.charleyproject.org/cases/t/tidwell_edward.html.

 

[BOESP]

Anyone know in which "open field" the remains were found? What section of the county and off what road or highway?

 

[MadMcGoo]

Unidentified Person / NamUs #UP95
Male, White / Caucasian
​

Date Body Found: August 15, 1983
Location Found: Near Scottsville, Allen County, Kentucky
Estimated Age: Adult - Pre 30; 20-30
Estimated PMI: Weeks
Estimated Height: 5' 8"
Hair Color: Brown; long, slightly wavy
Clothing: None
Circumstances of Recovery: Found in open field

"9 Missing Person Exclusions"
MP1058 John Kinsora 02/26/1982 Maricopa AZ
MP9344 Clay Foreman 05/28/1979 Jackson MO
MP12784 John Koziatek 07/30/1979 Hamilton OH
MP5629 James Kinskey 03/27/1982 Fayette KY
MP9697 Perry Stokes 08/24/1982 Todd KY
MP20204 Sean Phelan 10/01/1981 Orange CA
MP7624 Gerald Bradshaw 04/06/1982 Virginia Beach VA
MP1712 Randy Sellers 08/16/1980 Kenton KY (X2)

 

[carbuff]

Anyone know in which "open field" the remains were found? What section of the county and off what road or highway?

There doesn't seem to be any additional information about the location.

 

[MadMcGoo]

Found one article that narrows it down a little. I didn’t find HWY 285, it kept taking me to 585.... someone more familiar with the area can probably pinpoint the location better than I did

 

[carbuff]

Found one article that narrows it down a little. I didn’t find HWY 285, it kept taking me to 585.... someone more familiar with the area can probably pinpoint the location better than I did

I'm reading that number as 265, maybe? I'll look on the map tomorrow and see what I can find.

 

[MadMcGoo]

I'm reading that number as 265, maybe? I'll look on the map tomorrow and see what I can find.

That could have been it...I just know it wasn’t coming up when I entered into Maps. I didn’t have my handy Rand McNally paper map (literally - I cant live without that thing! lol) so I just took Google’s word...

 

[carbuff]

If it's highway 265, that would give approximately this location: خرائط ‪Google‬‏‏

It looks like there's an Amish market on Highway 100 just to the south of where the body was found, so possibly an Amish area?

It's also only about an hour north of Nashville and half an hour south of Bowling Green.

 

[MadMcGoo]

Okay! So I was way off...I was thinking more near Gold City and closer to 65. I’m not at all familiar with Kentucky! As I’m researching, I’m figuring out just how little I know. Every time I enter a location in these cases, I just see...winding roads, rivers, hills and nothingness. Oh, and trees. (Still haven’t researched ‘tobacco barns’...wouldn’t know one if it fell from the sky on top of me.)

Between it and Tennessee, I’m getting the feeling the two states are almost the ideal location (in that part of the US) for anyone looking to cover up a crime/murder. Specifically, get rid of evidence - including a body. IL, IN, OH, WV, VA, N/SC, GA, AL, MS, AR, MO; all share a border with those two states, almost exactly as though I was looking at the “Wheel of (un)Fortune”.

I know you don’t need a geography lesson and I’m obviously not one to be giving such a lesson. I’m mostly thinking out loud here but getting way off topic. I guess growing up in rural Texas (combined with having no interest in geography during school) has not done me any favors.

On topic again - my disappointment after reading quite a few of these Kentucky cold cases (and it didn’t take long to read about them because there’s virtually zilch to read) has made me determined to shed some light on a lot of these! Hopefully light a fire under someone’s tail, at least!

ETA: I meant no disrespect to KY, TN, or any of the residents. Or law enforcement. Merely my own observations and 1-cent worth of opinions.

 

[carbuff]

I don't know much about Kentucky either; I'm just a good map reader And I love looking up irrelevant stuff on Google. My head is a swamp of useless trivia

A tobacco barn is just a low barn with a wide roof to shelter the tobacco, which is hung from the rafters or specialty racks. It has either open sides, or doors that can be opened, so the air circulates through while the leaves are drying. The ones with open sides often have a wide roof above so the rain doesn't get in. Those look kind of like wings.

Wikipedia article Tobacco barn - Wikipedia

Is there a tobacco barn related to this case? I can go dig some more.

 

[MadMcGoo]

I was unaware of how large the Amish population was in KY. Its not been a state I usually think of when I hear KY.

9 Picture Perfect Places In Kentucky Amish Country You'll Want To Explore

Where are the Amish Communities in Kentucky? All Over!

I do have a question that would be better answered by someone local or familiar with the area rather than a web search. I know that I’ve lived in several small town in west Texas that were near communities largely populated with Mennonites. So, I became as familiar as one can with the people.

These particular communities are, for the most part, private families. The men mostly skilled as farmers, women stay-at-home mothers of many children. All of whom work harder than most people ever will in their lifetime. They predominantly speak Spanish or German and have very distinctive physical traits; ones that are very different from the surrounding population of people.

Most men especially, as an example, have light complexions, light and often red hair, they’re small in stature and show physical signs of having worked most of their life performing some sort of hard, manual labor; calloused hands and feet, poor posture, beet-red sunburned skin, etc. The women and children wear handmade clothes (dresses, primarily), hose, scarves...

It would be similar to seeing Justin Bieber in a family portrait with the Obamas. I’m not trying to be funny or offensive but that is literally how much most of the Mennonites in these areas stand out from the other people.

My point is, if I were to work a case of an unidentified body found in the areas I’m describing, there would most definitely (but not necessarily) be certain things that would make me determine the person was from a local Mennonite community. So the question is, would that be the case here? And if so, what would some of those indications be?

 

[MadMcGoo]

I don't know much about Kentucky either; I'm just a good map reader And I love looking up irrelevant stuff on Google. My head is a swamp of useless trivia

A tobacco barn is just a low barn with a wide roof to shelter the tobacco, which is hung from the rafters or specialty racks. It has either open sides, or doors that can be opened, so the air circulates through while the leaves are drying. The ones with open sides often have a wide roof above so the rain doesn't get in. Those look kind of like wings.

Wikipedia article Tobacco barn - Wikipedia

Is there a tobacco barn related to this case? I can go dig some more.

LOL... I just want to tell you how awesome you are! And patient and kind and resourceful and an awesome map reader!

No, there’s no tobacco barn here - another KY case, John W. Coolaid as I’ve named him. Severed hands, nude, gunshot wounds ... awful. So, I was trying to determine what to look for on Google Earth (the next best thing to Rand McNally Jumbo Map 2020). I’d recognize a cotton field if I saw one on satellite imagery... but a tobacco field? Not so much. lol.

 

[carbuff]

LOL... I just want to tell you how awesome you are! And patient and kind and resourceful and an awesome map reader!

No, there’s no tobacco barn here - another KY case, John W. Coolaid as I’ve named him. Severed hands, nude, gunshot wounds ... awful. So, I was trying to determine what to look for on Google Earth (the next best thing to Rand McNally Jumbo Map 2020). I’d recognize a cotton field if I saw one on satellite imagery... but a tobacco field? Not so much. lol.

aw gee thanks (I hope that's the blushing emoticon. I can't quite make it out for sure.) You're pretty awesome too and I'm really glad to have your amazing creativity and insight looking at these cases.

I found an article that has a picture of both the barn and the tobacco fields. Industry beginning to clarify regulations that would keep children out of tobacco fields - KyForward.com

 

[MadMcGoo]

(adding additional info obtained from the newspaper articles)
- Had worn braces on his teeth
- Rheumatic lower back
- Heavy smoker
- No cavities
- Right handed

In that newspaper article I posted (and it’s not the only one I’ve come across in KY) it says that the UID did “not die from two gunshot wounds” as was initially thought, but from “a (singular) blow to the head with a blunt instrument”...

How are those two injuries remotely similar? With a PMI of “weeks” and considering they were able to determine, within 2 days of his discovery, that he had worn braces sometime in his life, was a heavy smoker and had no cavities (makes me think the skull was fairly intact), it seems a little hard to believe they’d confuse a single blow to the head with, not one, but two gunshot wounds.

 

[MadMcGoo]

(I didn’t realize the photos were sideways)


Here’s kind of why I ask about the cranial trauma/injury... I’ve kept Mr. Jerri Dale Lesser in the back of mind when researching because he had a craniotomy and surgical perforations of his skull as a result... I thought that’d be noted if he were among the Does.

So, I’m wondering if that would or could also be confused with a blow to the head from a blunt instrument?

I’ve done in-depth research on craniotomy procedures due to some of my own medical issues, so I know a little about them. I’m sure advancements in technology and other variables would make it hard to compare Jerri’s skull to that of one belonging to someone who had a similar procedure a year ago. I think the permanent changes to the skull are different for each case.

Now, Jerry went missing from Colorado in May 1980 after him and a friend were rafting on the Colorado River. Their raft “apparently overturned” and his friend’s body was found later in the river but no sign of Jerry since then. But Jerry fits the physical description of this UID. White male, 24 years old, 5’7”, brown wavy hair, and prior craniotomy with existing “perforation of the skull”.

Comparing their photos, they have a very similar look. Maybe their raft didn’t overturn and there was a reason only his friend was found... I honestly don’t know, I haven’t done much reading about his actual disappearance...but the skull detail stood out to me. Eta: His high, pronounced cheekbones and nose really stand out to me also.

 

[carbuff]

(adding additional info obtained from the newspaper articles)
- Had worn braces on his teeth
- Rheumatic lower back
- Heavy smoker
- No cavities
- Right handed

In that newspaper article I posted (and it’s not the only one I’ve come across in KY) it says that the UID did “not die from two gunshot wounds” as was initially thought, but from “a (singular) blow to the head with a blunt instrument”...

How are those two injuries remotely similar? With a PMI of “weeks” and considering they were able to determine, within 2 days of his discovery, that he had worn braces sometime in his life, was a heavy smoker and had no cavities (makes me think the skull was fairly intact), it seems a little hard to believe they’d confuse a single blow to the head with, not one, but two gunshot wounds.

Gunshot wounds are usually quite obvious. Head injuries can be subtle. It sounds like the LE who recovered the body identified the gunshot wounds, but when Dr. Wolf the medical anthropologist examined the body, he found the fatal head injury.

This by the way is one of the reasons why many LE won't comment on a body--initial observations are very often wrong.

 

[carbuff]

answer #2: I don't think it would be likely that an old craniotomy would be confused with a fresh blow that caused death. But it seems possible that if the new injury happened in the exact same spot as the craniotomy, it might have destroyed evidence of the old injury.

That very long thin face and skull shape is often but not exclusively connected to Slavic ancestry. I don't know about Mennonites specifically. I do know that not all Mennonites live in isolation. I have a friend who is Mennonite; she's quiet, hard working as you say, dresses in a subdued way but as extreme as the people you knew in Texas, speaks English. I certainly don't think it's impossible that any of these dudes are Mennonite but I think it's far more likely that they are from nearby big cities.

 

[MadMcGoo]

@carbuff Thank you! Yah, I was going to say it would have been better for them not to speculate at all about the COD, but it is what it is. I hadn’t thought about the current injury masking a previous one. That’s plausible. I’d have to look into Jerry’s case a little more to speculate more about him...but it crossed my mind when talking about the UID’s wound.

And I think I confused things with the Mennonite reference. I wasn’t suggesting this Doe could be from a Mennonite community. I’m just wondering if someone from one of Kentucky’s Amish communities were to become a Doe, would someone investigating the case be able to say with some degree of certainty, “hey, this person is Amish”. If that makes better sense lol

 

[carbuff]

@carbuff Thank you! Yah, I was going to say it would have been better for them not to speculate at all about the COD, but it is what it is. I hadn’t thought about the current injury masking a previous one. That’s plausible. I’d have to look into Jerry’s case a little more to speculate more about him...but it crossed my mind when talking about the UID’s wound.

And I think I confused things with the Mennonite reference. I wasn’t suggesting this Doe could be from a Mennonite community. I’m just wondering if someone from one of Kentucky’s Amish communities were to become a Doe, would someone investigating the case be able to say with some degree of certainty, “hey, this person is Amish”. If that makes better sense lol

Ah. I don't know.

It would probably depend partly on whether there's been any interest in genetic analysis within the group--DNA only works when there's something to compare it to. I know they can identify Ashkenhazic Jewish genes pretty accurately. I remember when "Lyle Stevick" was undergoing testing, he turned out to be from a genetic subgroup and that hindered his identification because so many people in that subgroup were closely related to him. But groups like the Amish and Mennonites are mostly Germanic background and even though they tend to marry within the group and stay close together, they might not be that different from the general Germanic background.