Laura Babcock Murder Trial - *GUILTY*

[e3brown]

Some of the stuff that was kept from the jury makes sense, but other things I don't understand at all. The 3500 thing at the Bosma trial, the whole 'merk' thing for both.

I am not a lawyer. I think that the judge didn't allow the merk text because it is not relevant as the Crown is suggesting that DM killed LB because she was inconvenient and DM's text is saying that he would murder people for profit. So inconvenience doesn't equal profit so not allowed in the Babcock trial.
JMO

ETA: I don't understand why these texts were kept from the Bosma trial.

 

[Jasper52]

From that article

If jurors get sick or need to be hospitalized, they are taken for care, but still while being escorted by a guard (backup jurors are also sequestered and can substitute for jurors too ill to continue). Verret said it’s not usually permitted to speak to family members unless there is an extreme circumstance, and a judge must approve any such communication. Communication with the judge must be done by letter, sent by the special constables.


It never occurred to me the backup jurors can't go home either yet. How frustrating for them. To listen to the entire trial. Have no input on the verdict. And be literally alone until the decision is made.

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IIRC, DeaconBrodie explained earlier in this thread that the alternate jurors were sent home (in this case). If one of the jurors becomes ill, they can continue to deliberate without that juror - they need a total of 10 jurors to deliberate. I hope I recalled this correctly.

 

[Georgeo]

I am not a lawyer. I think that the judge didn't allow it because it is not relevant as the Crown is suggesting that DM killed LB because she was inconvenient and DM's text is saying that he would murder people for profit. So inconvenience doesn't equal profit so not allowed in the Babcock trial.
JMO

ETA: I don't understand why these texts were kept from the Bosma trial.

Shows he is willing to murder, period

 

[musicaljoke]

A witness testified that MS confessed to killing a girl. If the jury has the opinion that the witness is credible, then that evidence is very important.

 

[swedie]

I'm speculating about the long delay in why jurors haven't reached verdicts. A single juror won't budge on their belief that LB is still alive out there somewhere not wanting to be found. Changed her name, left the province and she is living off the income she makes while continuing to be an escort. Or believe she could be deceased by the hands of a customer while doing escorting, or being held against her will somewhere. Or believes she is deceased, took her own life, where she went somewhere not wanting to be found. Or jurors don't believe MS should get first degree murder.

If they only knew what was left out of evidence about these two psychos, they would have only needed a couple hours max to reach a verdict. When these two met they were a match made in hell. Had they not been caught over TB's murder, they would have gone on to murder and incinerator many more innocent victims just for the seer delight of being evil.

I believe MS was just as involved and in agreement with DM over both TB's and LB's murders, the planning, preparation and scheming, but it was DM who did the actual deed of murdering both (and his father). He wanted MS to have his own gun so MS could be just as bad azz as him. I hope the jurors make the right decision and find them both guilty of first degree murder. ALL MOO.

 

[e3brown]

Shows he is willing to murder, period

Oh that's true but I can see how a good defence lawyer could argue that the merk text should be excluded.

 

[palisadesk]

I'm speculating about the long delay in why jurors haven't reached verdicts.

It feels like a long time, because we're all anxious for the result. But statistically, it isn't long - not yet. Four to five days is average for murder trials in Canada - I looked this up during the Bosma trial and can't cite the source of the stat now, but I confirmed it by checking out some other cases (the Oland trial in NB, for example, was 4 full days - and I think a bit of a fifth day but could be wrong about that).

This jury has been out for 3 days, but there are also two accused, so that would imply some further deliberation time. I would not be worried until they were into something like the seventh or eighth day.

But I hope it's MUCH sooner!

 

[dar107]

I'm speculating about the long delay in why jurors haven't reached verdicts. A single juror won't budge on their belief that LB is still alive out there somewhere not wanting to be found. Changed her name, left the province and she is living off the income she makes while continuing to be an escort. Or believe she could be deceased by the hands of a customer while doing escorting, or being held against her will somewhere. Or believes she is deceased, took her own life, where she went somewhere not wanting to be found. Or jurors don't believe MS should get first degree murder.

If they only knew what was left out of evidence about these two psychos, they would have only needed a couple hours max to reach a verdict. When these two met they were a match made in hell. Had they not been caught over TB's murder, they would have gone on to murder and incinerator many more innocent victims just for the seer delight of being evil.

I believe MS was just as involved and in agreement with DM over both TB's and LB's murders, the planning, preparation and scheming, but it was DM who did the actual deed of murdering both (and his father). He wanted MS to have his own gun so MS could be just as bad azz as him. I hope the jurors make the right decision and find them both guilty of first degree murder. ALL MOO.

I would not call less then a week a "Long Delay" There's lots for them to discuss and I would prefer they take their time.

 

[Tealgrove]

Just landed. No verdict yet???


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[Canadian4]

No not yet.

 

[Inspector_North]

First thing first, Welcome.

* respectfully snipped

MS clearly aided in certain ways, to name a few: assisted with cleanup, connection for acquiring drugs, guns, “researching” the incinerator. I know it is hard to believe, but in the beginning this could still have been naïve, led to believe by DM that it was for vets’ pet cremation businesses, the same way DM lied to SS (the latter who seemed to have asked few, if any questions. SS did as he was told, but agreed, he probably knew more than can be proved).

I thought the same until I noticed MS started talking about " bones" for testing when it was still the homemade incinerator, which always was referred to as a garbage incinerator. It wasn't until the Eliminator that the pet cremation business was mentioned. MOO

May 25 12:06 pm Smich texts Millard: “Well there's no point of goin till its ready. And we gotta bring something with bones in it."

 

[Nosey Parker]

Just landed. No verdict yet???


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Nope, and I felt sure if I spent all morning Christmas shopping it would force them to bring in their verdicts.

 

[Jasper52]

DeaconBrodie, The fact that the jurors have not come back with any questions - do you read anything from that, in your experience?

 

[swedie]

I don't know why people feel the story is crazy about MS burying the gun in the forest. I for one think he told the truth. Oakville has lots of trails especially where he lives. He rode his bike or walked everywhere. I think he got scared and buried it. Then told someone else where to find it. (maybe Ish). That's JMO but it's part of the story I actually believe

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Apparently MS's sister was an acquaintance of MWJ, so I have to wonder if that gun was transferred back to MWJ via MS's sister or his pot smoking pal B Daly, or either one could have disposed of the gun anywhere. Daly testified in TB's trial and suggested to MS to dress as a city worker and go out and bury it somewhere. So many sketchy, untruthful testimonies in both trials...who to believe, what to believe. Speaking of sketchy, has anyone who's been to the courthouse/room seen this face around awaiting verdicts? If I'm not mistaken, I think it's Rabbit. Has MS's mother returned since her fiasco with the cameraman? MOO.

He testified that he told Smich he could dress like a city worker and go out and bury the gun somewhere. In its opening address, the Crown said Smich told his girlfriend that the gun was buried. http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/hamil...ept-gun-in-toolbox-friend-testifies-1.3521414
ETA: Photo courtesy of MSM via LE, from the search of DM's computers, during the investigation TB's trial.

 

[canadiangirl]

DeaconBrodie, The fact that the jurors have not come back with any questions - do you read anything from that, in your experience?

Did I miss something? Everyone keeps asking Deacon's opinion. Just curious why? Not that it's a problem, genuinely curious

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[Power of Two]

Quote Originally Posted by Tealgrove View Post
Just landed. No verdict yet???

Nope, and I felt sure if I spent all morning Christmas shopping it would force them to bring in their verdicts.

You've made me chuckle, Tealgrove... When people land at the airport the first people they usually text are family and loved ones saying they have landed safely. But you? Hot onto WS. I bet you couldn't wait! I'd be the same! Its getting to be a nail-biter.

 

[clefk27]

Quote Originally Posted by Tealgrove View Post
Just landed. No verdict yet???




You've made me chuckle, Tealgrove... When people land at the airport the first people they usually text are family and loved ones saying they have landed safely. But you? Hot onto WS. I bet you couldn't wait! I'd be the same! Its getting to be a nail-biter.

WS is certainly addictive. During the past 3 days with the jury in deliberation, I'll go hours without checking my email but I'm refreshing the WS feed every 5 or 10 mins, hoping to hear that the jury has reached a decision. Most of my friends and family can't understand my fixation. I think it is that I've formed a bond with LB and with her family and desperately would like to see justice served. The defendants' disregard for human life is just sickening.
Some people follow the soaps in a similar fashion. But hey, this is real life!
I'm staying tuned....hoping.....

 

[dar107]

Does anyone know how to start a poll?

 

[Shaz14]

WS is certainly addictive. During the past 3 days with the jury in deliberation, I'll go hours without checking my email but I'm refreshing the WS feed every 5 or 10 mins, hoping to hear that the jury has reached a decision. Most of my friends and family can't understand my fixation. I think it is that I've formed a bond with LB and with her family and desperately would like to see justice served. The defendants' disregard for human life is just sickening.
Some people follow the soaps in a similar fashion. But hey, this is real life!
I'm staying tuned....hoping.....

Between waiting for this verdict and the fact that my sister in-law went into labour so I was waiting around to hear about the baby too, it’s been a long, exhausting week! I hope the jury comes up with a verdict soon!

 

[DeaconBrodie]

DeaconBrodie, The fact that the jurors have not come back with any questions do you read anything from that, in your experience?

I do find it unusual that there have not yet been any questions in a complex case where the Judge's instructions took 3 days to deliver.

There are plenty of possible explanations. Perhaps its a really smart jury or Justice Code's delivery was impeccable and they are all clear as mud and have no questions.

Perhaps they are stuck on something that they can't get past yet and so they haven't even got to the point of considering some of the finer points of their duties which may require clarification. If that's the case then we're going to be here for awhile.

Also, a judge providing a written copy of his or her instructions to the jury is not common practice in my jurisdiction but maybe it was very helpful and this could explain why there have not been any questions yet.

All we can do is ponder the silence and speculate......