Legal Questions for Our VERIFIED Lawyers #2

Status
Not open for further replies.
Would GA, CA and LA have signed something in order for them to be Agents of the State, OR, can they just say they were and everyone take that as the truth? How does it work? We all know how these people tell the truth.... :)

Well, like all things in the law, the answer is somewhere in between. :) They can't just say they were agents of the state, but they don't have to have signed anything either. If Yuri and the other officers asked them to try to get answers from Casey (which I think they did), and then if the As went off like good little soldiers to get the answers (which IMO they did NOT) then they were probably acting as agents of the state and shouldn't have questioned her without her counsel present.
 
Can you explain why GA is testifying before the trial begins? I seem to be confused with this upcoming week of hearings. I didn't think anyone testified to anything at hearings. This is a different kind of hearing obviously.

From the article "On Wednesday, Anthony will come face-to-face with her former jail pen pal Robyn Adams who is currently serving time in a federal prison outside of Tallahassee."

So a few people will be testifying I guess.

Can you explain the difference in these testimonies vs testifying in front of a jury?

such a newb!
 
Hi AZ - hope you are feeling better today.

I have a question about filing motions. It seems JB has a sworn affidavit by someone who works in his law office saying that they did not receive a copy from the state for the Motion for Rule to Show Cause. If the state failed to provide a copy to defense will the motion be heard anyway or does it have to be refiled?
Thanks
http://www.docstoc.com/docs/72634895/20110228-Sworn-Affidavit---William-Slabaugh

BTW - I checked the state's motion and it does say a copy was sent to JB's office
 
Can you explain why GA is testifying before the trial begins? I seem to be confused with this upcoming week of hearings. I didn't think anyone testified to anything at hearings. This is a different kind of hearing obviously.

From the article "On Wednesday, Anthony will come face-to-face with her former jail pen pal Robyn Adams who is currently serving time in a federal prison outside of Tallahassee."

So a few people will be testifying I guess.

Can you explain the difference in these testimonies vs testifying in front of a jury?

such a newb!

Sometimes (like this week) the judge needs to rule on something before trial. If everyone agrees on the facts, the attorneys can just make their arguments and the judge can rule. But if there is any disagreement on the facts, the judge needs to see the evidence, which might be just documents or might be witness testimony. Then the judge decides the facts (e.g., which witnesses does he believe?) and makes his ruling based on those facts and based on the law.

Hi AZ - hope you are feeling better today.

I have a question about filing motions. It seems JB has a sworn affidavit by someone who works in his law office saying that they did not receive a copy from the state for the Motion for Rule to Show Cause. If the state failed to provide a copy to defense will the motion be heard anyway or does it have to be refiled?
Thanks
http://www.docstoc.com/docs/72634895/20110228-Sworn-Affidavit---William-Slabaugh

BTW - I checked the state's motion and it does say a copy was sent to JB's office

As long as they have the motion now it is really not a big deal. If JB had said, "I didn't get it and therefore I need more time to respond" he would have been given more time--but instead he responded right away and just whined about not getting his copy.
 
From what we have seen and heard... SO FAR... is it your opinion that Casey was under arrest or detained by LE... after the written statement, but before her interview with Yuri?
 
From what we have seen and heard... SO FAR... is it your opinion that Casey was under arrest or detained by LE... after the written statement, but before her interview with Yuri?

So far I think the Universal statement was "in custody" and therefore will be tossed, but everything before that was OK.
 
So far I think the Universal statement was "in custody" and therefore will be tossed, but everything before that was OK.

Have you waivered on this Universal statement being taken while Casey was "in custody?" I'm just wondering because Yuri denies telling George that he would not be bringing Casey back... Cindy had a completely different recollection of this event... and said it was John Allen that said this at the house.

Also with Casey being brought in through the front door with a visitors badge on? I won't be too upset if the Universal gets tossed out, but is there even a slim chance that it could come in now... after hearing some of the testimony?
 
Az & or others; (I haven't seen this asked or answered before -- TIA).
I have been wondering if this might have any kind of bearing with a Juror: If I were on the Jury, would I be aware of the fact that the defendent is 'indigent'? And if so, "why has this taken 3 years to come to Trial". It is hard to separate myself from the jury pool, knowing what I have seen and read since this case began. But, I would just like to know if this is a question that might arise in a jurors mind.... maybe causing them to question what is so 'special' about this case/defendant that it takes 3 years to procecute if the defendant has no funding for her defense.
 
Related to why the handcuffs: I am confused. The young officer said he put handcuffs on Casey because Cindy wanted Casey to be detained.He agreed and put her in cuffs. Everyone was on board about Casey being taken into custody for theft. This sounds like Miranda-eligible stuff to me.

Any lawyer insight to this?
 
Related to why the handcuffs: I am confused. The young officer said he put handcuffs on Casey because Cindy wanted Casey to be detained.He agreed and put her in cuffs. Everyone was on board about Casey being taken into custody for theft. This sounds like Miranda-eligible stuff to me.

Any lawyer insight to this?


Not a lawyer,but it came out at the hearing that his supervisor quickly corrected this officer and the cuffs were removed within minutes.No harm,no foul,at this point.
 
Not a lawyer,but it came out at the hearing that his supervisor quickly corrected this officer and the cuffs were removed within minutes.No harm,no foul,at this point.

I know that is the popular speculation, but that is why I asked it on the verified lawyer thread. Is the popular speculation correct, lawyers?
It doesn't sound like they told her it was off, either. I am just wondering -- don't they (LE) admit they were going to detain her (albeit for theft)? Or were they just temporarily detaining her because they were afraid she was going to run? Does it matter?
 
Have you waivered on this Universal statement being taken while Casey was "in custody?" I'm just wondering because Yuri denies telling George that he would not be bringing Casey back... Cindy had a completely different recollection of this event... and said it was John Allen that said this at the house.

Also with Casey being brought in through the front door with a visitors badge on? I won't be too upset if the Universal gets tossed out, but is there even a slim chance that it could come in now... after hearing some of the testimony?

After listening to Yuri's testimony, my opinion is that there is a slim chance HHJP might allow the Universal statement into evidence. But I hope he doesn't, because on appeal the appellate court will look at every single line of that transcript and IMO will ultimately determine that it should have been excluded.

Az & or others; (I haven't seen this asked or answered before -- TIA).
I have been wondering if this might have any kind of bearing with a Juror: If I were on the Jury, would I be aware of the fact that the defendent is 'indigent'? And if so, "why has this taken 3 years to come to Trial". It is hard to separate myself from the jury pool, knowing what I have seen and read since this case began. But, I would just like to know if this is a question that might arise in a jurors mind.... maybe causing them to question what is so 'special' about this case/defendant that it takes 3 years to procecute if the defendant has no funding for her defense.

No, as a juror you would not be aware of the indigency finding. Not sure what that has to do with the time it takes to get to trial, though. To me, 3 years seems just about right, but I guess if you're outside the system it seems kind of long. :)

Even if the jurors did wonder why it took 3 years to get to trial, I assume they wouldn't take that fact into account one way or the other in deciding whether Casey is guilty or not.

Related to why the handcuffs: I am confused. The young officer said he put handcuffs on Casey because Cindy wanted Casey to be detained.He agreed and put her in cuffs. Everyone was on board about Casey being taken into custody for theft. This sounds like Miranda-eligible stuff to me.

Any lawyer insight to this?

Not a lawyer,but it came out at the hearing that his supervisor quickly corrected this officer and the cuffs were removed within minutes.No harm,no foul,at this point.

Casey was absolutely in custody at that point, and Miranda rights would have been necessary IF anyone was going to ask her any questions. But they didn't. Instead they took off the handcuffs and (hopefully in her presence) said they were no longer interested in the theft and wanted to focus on finding Caylee. So IMO the "custody" period ended at that time, and her later written statement is fine. Yuri's questioning of her at the house is probably also fine, as I think she reasonably would have felt free to refuse to talk to him at that point--and if she didn't feel free to refuse, it was because of her mother, not because of Yuri or the prior 5-minute handcuffing episode. :)

As for the statements at Universal, I think once she got to the end of the hallway and inside the closed room (not locked, "just for privacy", "voluntarily," yes, I know :)) and was told, repeatedly, "we know you are lying to us, now tell us what happened," she would NOT have felt reasonably free to get up and leave the building. Therefore she was in custody. Therefore she should have been given Miranda warnings IF the statement is to be used as evidence. Therefore, the statement should be excluded from evidence.

Kudos to Yuri for making a valiant effort to get her to talk while keeping the "custody" issue vague enough that if she said anything incriminating they might still have been able to use it. I think he knew exactly what he was doing and it was not a bad guess that this young mother with no criminal history would "crack" and tell them where Caylee was, as long as they didn't scare her off with Miranda warnings.
 
AZ,

If you have the time (i dont have the books in front of me),for all involved to better understand(it might help with WS'ers thought process)....... you could explain/define:

1) Common right of inquiry
2) Mere suspicion
3) Reasonable suspicion
4) Probable Cause
 
Dear AZ and/or others,

Let's say defense's motion will be granted and Universal 'interrogation interview' will not be admissable. In this case, can LE just simply DESCRIBE how KC took them on the goose chaise to all these places INCLUDING Universal Studio? IMHO, in worse case scenario, even without Universal's interview - just describing all KC lies as JB did today - would be pretty damaging, isn't? So, do you think we have a chance to hear judge ruling: NO to interview but YES to describing the events?
 
AZlawyer, Thank you for answering our questions, without your help, I for one, would be lost. Let me just say…. YOU ROCK!! :rocker:
 
AZ Lawyer, you totally rock!

But here is my issue, Miranda rights do not go into effect until after an arrest is made? LE didn't arrest Casey before the interview at Universal. So how in the world do Miranda rights come into play here...? I am just not buying what the Defense wants to sell. I get the slippery slope...but the State can just as easily say that LE was trying to determine whether an AMBER ALERT should go out, if at all, for Caylee...Where I think comments from Casey may be excluded from the Universal interview is where Yuri/other detective says, "Caylee may not be alright...she might be in pretty bad shape..." after that...it gets a little dicey...cuz it might be a slight accusation...but I am not understanding, as being a law grad myself, I thought, Miranda really only applied once a suspect was told they were under arrest? There is NO rule of law that I know of that says, 'Once an officer suspects something about a citizen, they should arrest them immediately and inform them of their Miranda Rights." But perhaps I am wrong?

I can understand how lawyers everywhere are freaking out because there are stupid clients and stupid people and Casey is no exception...but all she did was yap voluntarily and continue to yap and spin more lies...she was so brazen that moments before this interview was conducted she strode purposefully down a hallway of a building at Universal where she didn't work...sound like she was "intimidated" to you?

JMO but the law shouldn't protect dumb statements by brazen and dumb liars...no matter how bad it is for the Defense attorneys...jmo

TY for all that you do here. You are truly the resident legal expert.
 
An arrest is not a condition precedent to Miranda warnings being required. If a person is being detained as a suspect, regardless of whether they have formally been arrested, then Miranda Warnings are required.

Ultimately though, the analysis for Judge Perry is whether he believes a reasonable person in Casey Anthony's position had a realistic belief that she could decline to cooperate with law enforcement.

In making that decision, he will look at all of the circumstances surrounding her encounter with law enforcement. Such as the handcuffing (which is important, because you cannot unarrest a person), the transportation in the back of the patrol car (as opposed to the front), etc.
 
An arrest is not a condition precedent to Miranda warnings being required. If a person is being detained as a suspect, regardless of whether they have formally been arrested, then Miranda Warnings are required.

Ultimately though, the analysis for Judge Perry is whether he believes a reasonable person in Casey Anthony's position had a realistic belief that she could decline to cooperate with law enforcement.

In making that decision, he will look at all of the circumstances surrounding her encounter with law enforcement. Such as the handcuffing (which is important, because you cannot unarrest a person), the transportation in the back of the patrol car (as opposed to the front), etc.

TY! So as long as LE doesn't say, "Hey Casey, you are a suspect" Miranda is not required. Given the fact that the defendent led LE to Universal (where she hadn't worked in quite a few years), gave the name of a fake made up boss that doesn't exist to security at Universal, led police to a building with purpose and walked within the hallway of that building to a place she no longer worked and then fessed up in the hallway, to say, "Okay, I don't work here," might lead intelligent people to believe that she was pretty brazen, pretty stuck to the whole, "lies usually work for me" kind of thing that no one would reasonably believe that she was "intimidated" by LE...rather she was trying to trick them...they pretty much told her she was free to leave multiple times and would not take the bait.

Also, it was apparent from the testimony today during the hearing that Cindy Anthony wanted Casey detained by LE (this was after Cindy had already been told the "story" that Zanny took Caylee) for theft...of credit cards...of Cindy's...so that LE could MAKE Casey talk and turn Caylee over to Cindy and George. Cindy was afraid Casey might bolt...not under arrest...right? For the real issue at hand, just briefly detained...???

Doesn't explain all the lies Casey apparently told to the 911 operator about how Zanny called Casey earlier that day and she spoke to Caylee and Caylee was fine, wasn't missing anyone and just wanted to talk about a book she was reading?

How many police officers actually let anyone ride in the front seat? really? Isn't this just another cry on the part of the defense to make us believe that Casey was intimidated as she took LE to the Saw Grass to an apartment where Caylee had supposedly been yet Casey couldn't remember the number of nor of the phone numbers that were allegedly lost when she switched out her sim card between the two phones she allegedly got from Universal? just lost that one with the sim card and I guess couldn't produce any real contacts that she claimed she had talked to, to LE...???

Basically, I see nothing wrong with her interrogation...I think she was relishing her lies...and thought there would be no punishment for such lies...typical.

So basically, if a defendent, who is later arrested, and makes dumb statements and implausible lies to police, when a child is missing and time is of the essence, these statements should be ignored because...they look bad for the defense? why not just say it was an accident...???J
MO. The fact that her statements limit the defense, coupled with this defendent's traditional inability to accept fault, shouldn't be my problem...or should it?
 
rhornsby, thank you for stopping by. You've stirred up a couple more questions in my mind:

- Is there case law relevant to the apparent fact that KC was handcuffed due to the theft accusations from her mother? She was not charged for that initially (I think it was child neglect and four counts of lying to LE), and after she was uncuffed, it seems that the investigation then proceeded as a missing-child investigation, with KC not a suspect and in fact willingly leading LE to places where ZFG may have been with her daughter, as would a grieving mother. Wondering what case law might guide CJBP's decision on this issue.

- When does conduct cross the line to the point that an individual can be held in contempt of court?
 
There are no magical words that trigger the Mirdanda requirement, rather the question is whether law enforcement's conduct would cause a reasonable person to believe they were no longer free to decline law enforcement's overtures.

In this case, the handcuffing clearly suggest that Casey was no longer free to leave. But that is just one factor, Judge Perry will also look at all of the other factors in the incident.

Regardless, this is an issue that has no black-and-white answer, and ultimately will be up to Judge Perry to decide based on the totality of all of the circumstances. (Personally I agree with AZLawyer and think Perry will find Miranda was required and toss the statements.)

Also, I think most of the WebSleuthers are having a hard time believing law enforcement did anything wrong because of the self-serving way that law enforcement is trying to paint what they did and how they interpreted the situation.

For example, a lot of you got a kick out of Melich claiming ignorance when Baez asked whether he suspected Casey of a crime. His answer was disingenuous and obviously he had been prepped about how to answer such questions. Everyone knows he suspected Casey of a crime; he would have been more credible to admit that, but he was afraid that by doing so the defense might win. Unfortunately though, this could backfire on him and the State.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Members online

Online statistics

Members online
161
Guests online
1,186
Total visitors
1,347

Forum statistics

Threads
596,497
Messages
18,048,800
Members
230,016
Latest member
TheGingerSnoop
Back
Top