Lies point us to the truth #3

[txsleuth70]

I found this information a while back in reference to Mike Bynum and John Ramsey:

Mike Bynum was the corporate attorney at John Ramsey’s company, Access Graphics. The most pertinent details surrounding Mike Bynum are:

• In the early 1970s, Bynum worked as a deputy in the Boulder District Attorney’s office. Bynum worked with both Peter Hofstrom and Alex Hunter
• At the time of JonBenet’s murder, Hofstrom was the head of the DA’s felony division, and Hunter was the Boulder District Attorney
• Bynum grew up (mostly) in Moab, Utah, he went to college in Boulder CO, and in 2002, he retired from the legal profession and moved back to Moab, Utah. I will revisit Moab, Utah, later on in this post.
• A general overview of Bynum’s life and career can be found here

Bynum’s initial involvement in the case

As per this excellent comment by u/juror_13, Bynum’s relationship with John Ramsey was presented by both, at various times, as either a close friendship, or a business relationship. As of December 1996, it appears the two were more akin to business partners than friends: for example, Bynum had not been invited to the Ramseys' Christmas party on the 23rd, nor was he called to the Ramsey’s house early on the morning of Dec. 26th, 1996.

Now let’s talk about Fleet White for a moment: as described by Det. Schiller in PMPT, on Dec. 26th 1996, “Fleet White drove over to the Fernie’s house to stay with John and Patsy. Later, at around 4:00pm, he [Fleet White] went to the office of Michael Bynum, Ramsey’s corporate attorney…”. Fleet and his wife were the first to arrive at the Ramsey’s house that morning, and Fleet was with John when JonBenet’s body was located in the wine cellar. This means that outside of John, Patsy and Burke, Fleet would have been the star witness for police investigators. Could this be why Mike Bynum was so quick to speak to Fleet alone that evening - to find out what Fleet had witnessed?

This raises the obvious question - why was John’s corporate attorney so quick to jump into the case? He had arranged a meeting with Fleet mere hours after JonBenet's body had been found. Bynum was not John’s personal lawyer - his professional role was to perform legal duties for Access Graphics. Could Mike Bynum’s pre-existing relationship with the DA’s office, who are widely thought to have obstructed the BPD’s investigation, be the primary reason for Bynum’s involvement? If not, a more reasonable approach (i.e less of a conflict of interest), would have been: Bynum refers John to criminal defense lawyer/s > criminal defense lawyer/s decide whether to meet with Fleet on the 26th.

How did Bynum assist John Ramsey?

Bynum did in fact go on to source John’s legal representation, as made clear in John’s Oct. 1998deposition:


So Bynum moonlighting as John’s legal wizard is over now, right? Well no, because Bynum again goes above-and-beyond the duties of a corporate attorney. As also mentioned by John in the same Oct. 1998 deposition:


What John doesn’t mention in this deposition, is that nine months previously, a company called ‘755 15TH STREET, LLC’ was incorporated, by none other than Mike Bynum’s own law firm, Chrisman Bynum & Johnson, P. C. What did this newly formed “investor group”, composed of “individuals assisting the Ramsey family” do? In Feb. 1998, they purchased the Ramseys’ house for $650,00. This was almost $260k below what the home was valued at in 1996 (and presumably the property value would have increased further by 1998). In fact, from the same Denver Post article, “...Bynum said the group eventually planned to sell the home and donate any profits to the JonBenet Ramsey Children's Foundation”.

So, to recap:

• Mike Bynum’s firm incorporates the JonBenet Ramsey Children's Foundation
• In January 1998, Mike Bynum’s firm incorporates an investment group, which, given the chosen business name, appears to have been set up with just the one investment in mind
• This investment group then purchases the Ramsey’s house for ~260k below market value. Now sure, we’ve all heard that ‘murder houses’ are notoriously difficult to sell - but surely John’s ex-corporate attorney and ‘good friend’, whom he clearly maintained a relationship with after having left Access Graphics - surely he wouldn’t be one to stiff the Ramseys in his offer to buy their house? As stated by Bynum’s own firm, they planned to later sell the home, and generously donate all profits back to the Ramseys’ foundation.

Thus far, I suspect there are some financial shenanigans afoot: a non-profit and an LLC are formed by the same individuals, and money is exchanging hands from one organization to the owner of the other. Future profits are earmarked to be transferred back between organizations.

Furthermore, it is interesting that Bynum and Johns’ relationship seemingly grew closer after they no longer worked together at Access Graphics. If Bynum was the critical link between John and the Boulder DA’s office, could the house sale (at below market value) have been an off-the-books payment to Bynum, for having facilitated the connection between John and the DA’s office? As to why Bynum’s firm would later donate back profits to the Ramsey’s foundation, from a second sale of the house… that I can only speculate about. And we don’t know whether or not these profits were in fact donated back, or if there was even a genuine intent to follow through with this payment.

But so far, Mike Bynum seems to be involved in some shady practices. Certainly practices which seem outside the realm of what one would expect of a corporate attorney.

Shady practices?

So I did some digging into Mike Bynum, and as per opencorporates, his name is attached to a slew of companies. He is listed as a President/Director of over 10 different companies, which seems like a lot for one person to manage.

In 2010, Mike Bynum became CEO of White Canyon Uranium (North America), which appears to have been a branch of an AU/CA based parent company. Who else should join this same company, in the same year, as Executive Director of the Board? John Ramsey. Additionally, Mike Bynum is the registered agent of the flight/aircraft company Redtail Air, of which John Ramsey is President.

So it’s clear that Mike and John have been doing business together for at least two decades now. I would hazard a bet that having worked together for so long, they’re probably friends at this point too, particularly given that John also moved to Moab, Utah, in 2011.

So what’s all of this got to do with the murder?

It appears that Mike Bynum could have been complicit in the cover up of JonBenet’s murder, and that he was the conduit by which the Ramsey’s were able to receive such favorable treatment from the Boulder DA’s office. Does Bynum know who killed JonBenet? Maybe. Or maybe not. At the very least, Bynum could have used his personal relationships to assist in obstructing the BPD’s investigation. But why would someone (or anyone, for that matter) facilitate such corruption, when the crime at hand is the murder of a child? I strongly suspect that there was an “I’ll scratch your back, you scratch mine” arrangement between Mike and John. Both were deeply entangled in each other’s business dealings, and it appears there’s a high probability of illegal business activities (e.g money laundering, tax evasion, etc…) having occurred.

We can only speculate as to the extent and the specifics of such activities, but if Bynum did in fact willingly assist in obstructing a murder investigation, I can only assume that the depths of illegality ran fairly deep. Both Mike and John certainly have had unusually diverse careers - spanning across the fields of computer software hardware, financial investing, uranium mining and aircrafts. Impressive resumes.

Pasta Jay

I was unsure whether to include this last section, because I’m not sure how relevant it is (I have not been able to dig up as much information). Perhaps somebody else has already done some research on this and can share what they’ve found.

Jay Elowsky (aka ‘Pasta Jay’) owned a popular (still active to this day) Italian restaurant in Boulder, of which the Ramseys were frequent guests. As per this acandyrose entry, at some point prior to 1996, John Ramsey and Mike Bynum loaned Elowsky money for his restaurant business. In fact, at ~1:55 in the crime scene video taken at the Ramsey’s house, a check from Jay Elowsky is located in the Ramsey’s home. Jay Elowsky must have been close to the Ramsey family, because in January of 1997, for approximately 8 weeks, John, Patsy, Burke - and both Patsy’s parents and two sisters - lived with Jay Elowsky in his Boulder home.

In 1992, Pasta Jay’s opened another restaurant location in Moab, Utah. Which is where John Ramsey and Mike Bynum now live. It is unclear what (if any) relationship Mike and John have with Jay Elowsky nowadays, but it is interesting that all three of them are living in the same ~5k population town. I wonder if they're still doing business together.

John and his wife Jan also own ‘The Find’ in Moab, UT.

It's so interesting to me how many 'friends' the Ramseys have lived with! Moving in a full family who has every means of buying/renting a place - or staying in a hotel - during the transition seems strange to me...

 

[Rain on my Parade]

As to why JR hired lawyers for his older children, that was done when Boulder PD flew to Georgia to question family members. JR and PR had already lawyered up by EOD on 12/26/96. The attorney for JAR was hired on 3/6/97. Not surprising since JR was convinced almost immediately that the police were out to get them.

I believe you have your dates mixed up. According to Steve Thomas JAR and MR were fist interviewed for 2 hrs. each on 12/27/96. On Dec. 28, 1996, the BPD had already had blood and hair samples, as well as fingerprints, taken from John Andrew and Melinda. The results of these tests are what the BPD withheld from the D.A.'s office for several months. Perhaps this is why attorneys were hired for them. That happened on Feb. 13, 1997.
**Boulder Detectives traveled to Roswell, Georgia, for the express purpose of collecting conclusive evidence that would allow us to eliminate John Andrew and Melinda from suspicion in this case.
From PMPT: "Two and a half months after the Boulder police began investigating John Andrew and Melinda Ramsey, they received the final pieces of evidence that cleared Ramsey's older children of any involvement in JonBenet's murder.
"Bryan Morgan wrote to Detective Thomas on March 4 stating that John Andrew had made an ATM transaction at the QT Store on Roswell Road, in Marietta, Georgia, at 9:00 P.M. on December 25. His friend Brad Millard had been present. To support his claim, Morgan enclosed the ATM transaction slip."

It seems really suspicious to me that a college age young man would not only hold onto a movie ticket stub but also his ATM slip and be able to produce those.
Also a flight could have made it to Atlanta in 3 hours. There is a 2 hour time difference from Boulder to Atlanta but it could have been done.
I’m not saying that JAR did it. Why did JR need to hire lawyers for his ex-wife and his older children if they were all in Atlanta (Roswell) Georgia? IMO the important meeting he needed to attend was to coach Lucinda. None of the Ramseys that lived/stayed in that house can be ruled out, IMO.

 

[CloudedTruth]

I believe you have your dates mixed up. According to Steve Thomas JAR and MR were fist interviewed for 2 hrs. each on 12/27/96. On Dec. 28, 1996, the BPD had already had blood and hair samples, as well as fingerprints, taken from John Andrew and Melinda. The results of these tests are what the BPD withheld from the D.A.'s office for several months. Perhaps this is why attorneys were hired for them. That happened on Feb. 13, 1997.
**Boulder Detectives traveled to Roswell, Georgia, for the express purpose of collecting conclusive evidence that would allow us to eliminate John Andrew and Melinda from suspicion in this case.
From PMPT: "Two and a half months after the Boulder police began investigating John Andrew and Melinda Ramsey, they received the final pieces of evidence that cleared Ramsey's older children of any involvement in JonBenet's murder.
"Bryan Morgan wrote to Detective Thomas on March 4 stating that John Andrew had made an ATM transaction at the QT Store on Roswell Road, in Marietta, Georgia, at 9:00 P.M. on December 25. His friend Brad Millard had been present. To support his claim, Morgan enclosed the ATM transaction slip."

It seems really suspicious to me that a college age young man would not only hold onto a movie ticket stub but also his ATM slip and be able to produce those.
Also a flight could have made it to Atlanta in 3 hours. There is a 2 hour time difference from Boulder to Atlanta but it could have been done.
I’m not saying that JAR did it. Why did JR need to hire lawyers for his ex-wife and his older children if they were all in Atlanta (Roswell) Georgia? IMO the important meeting he needed to attend was to coach Lucinda. None of the Ramseys that lived/stayed in that house can be ruled out, IMO.

Could be. I am aware that both JAR and MR were interviewed by Boulder PD on 12/27/96, and that they gave blood & hair samples, etc. very quickly. According to the acandyrose site, attorney Jim Jenkins was hired on 3/6/97. He also represented MR, BR and Lucinda Johnson and was based in Atlanta. The acandyrose date may be incorrect, however he had not yet been hired when JAR and MR were interviewed in Boulder. As both adult children and Lucinda were out of state when the crime occurred, I doubt that JR was as concerned about making sure they were lawyered up as he was for himself and PR.

People stuff receipts in their pockets all the time, only to find them later when washing clothes for example. I find nothing suspicious about it. Yes, you can fly from Atlanta to Colorado in around 3 hours, commercial flights list it as 3 1/2. My point was that the smaller plane that JR owned, the Bonanza, was only a single engine plane and it lacked the range capability for that long a flight, which would rule it out as a possibility for having been used to secretly fly JAR in and out of Boulder. It would have needed to land somewhere in between in order to refuel and as it does not have the speed of a jet would also have required a flight time in excess of 3 hours.

I'm also curious as to why JR felt he needed to hire lawyers for the ex-wife and adult children, and also that he felt it necessary for he and PR to fly to Atlanta in order to be present to "support" Lucinda for her interview with police. It does seem suspicious and leads one to speculate as to whether there was something that JR did not want to be revealed, and what that might be? I'm sure we've all heard the rumors about the possibility of previous SA involving the eldest daughter Beth. Whatever the truth might be, JR sure made it appear that he had things to hide.

 

[Rain on my Parade]

According to the acandyrose site, attorney Jim Jenkins was hired on 3/6/97. He also represented MR, BR and Lucinda Johnson and was based in Atlanta. The acandyrose date may be incorrect, however he had not yet been hired when JAR and MR were interviewed in Boulder.

When Boulder police traveled to Roswell, Ga., on Feb. 13, they had the "express purpose" of clearing John Andrew and Melinda Ramsey. They even took a city spokesperson with them, prepared to make the announcement, a city source told the Daily Camera.

But when the detectives and spokesperson arrived in Roswell, they learned that John Ramsey had hired Atlanta attorney James Jenkins to represent Melinda and John Andrew, as well as the children's mother, Lucinda Johnson. Jenkins would not allow the Ramsey children or their mother to speak with the officers, McNeill said.

I just discovers this in the 1998 interview: see pg. 87

4 LOU SMIT: Okay. You stayed in the house
5 until -- do you remember what time that you left
6 the house (INAUDIBLE)?
7 JOHN RAMSEY: Well, I'm always been messed
8 up on my times, but we were leaving the house at a
9 time when my older kids pulled up in a taxicab.
10 And they would have, my recollection is it was
11 around one o'clock. Mike Archuleta had contacted
12 them in Minneapolis. They were able to get on a
13 flight in Denver fairly quickly and then get a cab
14 from (INAUDIBLE) to our house. I mean they were
15 literally pulling in the cabs when were about to
16 get in the house to go to the Fernies.

**The timing of the flights, plus cab ride and collecting baggage’s … seems like their timing was right on time! Almost makes one wonder that finding JB body wasn’t planned timing on JR part. He signed the coroners report, left the house; only to be met by his adult children pulling up outside. Coincidence; I don’t think so! Plus, we cannot ignore the true bills. Whom do you think they aided and abetted in the coverup?

 

[CloudedTruth]

When Boulder police traveled to Roswell, Ga., on Feb. 13, they had the "express purpose" of clearing John Andrew and Melinda Ramsey. They even took a city spokesperson with them, prepared to make the announcement, a city source told the Daily Camera.

But when the detectives and spokesperson arrived in Roswell, they learned that John Ramsey had hired Atlanta attorney James Jenkins to represent Melinda and John Andrew, as well as the children's mother, Lucinda Johnson. Jenkins would not allow the Ramsey children or their mother to speak with the officers, McNeill said.

I just discovers this in the 1998 interview: see pg. 87

4 LOU SMIT: Okay. You stayed in the house
5 until -- do you remember what time that you left
6 the house (INAUDIBLE)?
7 JOHN RAMSEY: Well, I'm always been messed
8 up on my times, but we were leaving the house at a
9 time when my older kids pulled up in a taxicab.
10 And they would have, my recollection is it was
11 around one o'clock. Mike Archuleta had contacted
12 them in Minneapolis. They were able to get on a
13 flight in Denver fairly quickly and then get a cab
14 from (INAUDIBLE) to our house. I mean they were
15 literally pulling in the cabs when were about to
16 get in the house to go to the Fernies.

**The timing of the flights, plus cab ride and collecting baggage’s … seems like their timing was right on time! Almost makes one wonder that finding JB body wasn’t planned timing on JR part. He signed the coroners report, left the house; only to be met by his adult children pulling up outside. Coincidence; I don’t think so! Plus, we cannot ignore the true bills. Whom do you think they aided and abetted in the coverup

Yes, the arrival timing is interesting, isn't it? Reportedly, JAR and MR were on the plane for the flight to Minneapolis, due to depart at 8:36AM Atlanta time, in order to meet the rest of the family at about 10:30AM. According to JAR, he was slipped a note by a flight attendant that there was an emergency and to call home (Boulder). He and MR then deplaned and after speaking to someone (I assume JR), then were able to instead board a flight to Denver. JR finds JBR's body at approximately 1:05PM, and it was reported that they were leaving the house to go to the Furnies at 1:45PM at which time JAR and MR arrived.

JR would not have signed a coroner's report at that time as it would not have been prepared yet, and the coroner by his own account did not arrive at the Ramseys to examine the body until approximately 8PM that night, entering the home at about 8:20PM.

The longer a dead body goes undiscovered, the more forensic evidence is compromised. As chaotic as some things seem, the scenario that was created after the fact was effective. This case is still unsolved.

 

[Rain on my Parade]

Yes, the arrival timing is interesting, isn't it? Reportedly, JAR and MR were on the plane for the flight to Minneapolis, due to depart at 8:36AM Atlanta time, in order to meet the rest of the family at about 10:30AM. According to JAR, he was slipped a note by a flight attendant that there was an emergency and to call home (Boulder). He and MR then deplaned and after speaking to someone (I assume JR), then were able to instead board a flight to Denver. JR finds JBR's body at approximately 1:05PM, and it was reported that they were leaving the house to go to the Furnies at 1:45PM at which time JAR and MR arrived.

Interesting indeed! JR has stated that he took several calls on his cell phone on 12/26/96. As I recall JAR’s name was mentioned. Or at the very least his older children.

JR would not have signed a coroner's report at that time as it would not have been prepared yet, and the coroner by his own account did not arrive at the Ramseys to examine the body until approximately 8PM that night, entering the home at about 8:20PM.

Apparently JR made the call around 1:30 to get out of Dodge.
From the same BPD interview in 98 pg. 111 JR states all he remembers before leaving the house is the coroner gave him a form to sign and he signed it. I am aware that they did not come back for JB until later that night. She laid underneath the Christmas tree by herself for what (7 hrs). before they took her body for processing. How PR walked out that door so easily knowing this is beyond me. In her own words “I am the mother”.

The longer a dead body goes undiscovered, the more forensic evidence is compromised. As chaotic as some things seem, the scenario that was created after the fact was effective. This case is still unsolved.

Yes, not to mention her body was in the wine cellar for approximately 12 hours before being discovered by JR. I firmly believe JR was making phone calls way before the 911 call on the morning of 12/26/96; on how to proceed. This case screams political coverup!

 

[CloudedTruth]

Interesting indeed! JR has stated that he took several calls on his cell phone on 12/26/96. As I recall JAR’s name was mentioned. Or at the very least his older children.


Apparently JR made the call around 1:30 to get out of Dodge.
From the same BPD interview in 98 pg. 111 JR states all he remembers before leaving the house is the coroner gave him a form to sign and he signed it. I am aware that they did not come back for JB until later that night. She laid underneath the Christmas tree by herself for what (7 hrs). before they took her body for processing. How PR walked out that door so easily knowing this is beyond me. In her own words “I am the mother”.


Yes, not to mention her body was in the wine cellar for approximately 12 hours before being discovered by JR. I firmly believe JR was making phone calls way before the 911 call on the morning of 12/26/96; on how to proceed. This case screams political coverup!

The cell phone records debacle is yet another key. According to Steve Thomas, he was denied subpoenas for the phone records by the DA's office. After a year had gone by, he apparently got a signed limited permission letter from JR for some phone records, but only the home phone and his cell phone. The land line records for the month of December were unremarkable. The cell phone records were reportedly blank. Upon query to the cell phone carrier (Air Touch) about the ability to remove billing records from their computer, Thomas was informed there was "no way". And yet previous months records show an average of 90-100 minutes usage. Zero calls from December 1 - 27. It's just not believable. Someone had those records wiped.

Obviously JR is mistaken about the coroner. He wasn't there until hours after they had cleared the house of the R's and all their pals.

PR's actions and demeanor at times that day are suspicious, as are JR's. The looking through her fingers bit.......her wailing and carrying on and then just leaving "her baby" behind like that feels very off to me. I live in Colorado and very distinctly remember all the news coverage, it was unavoidable. And I can tell you that the consensus of opinion here was that of being suspicious of the parents from day one. How they handled themselves from the beginning seemed off. The televised interview they did with CNN so soon afterwards, and before full on interviews with LE just underscored for most people here that something wasn't right and that they were most likely involved in JBR's death.

 

[Rain on my Parade]

The cell phone records debacle is yet another key. According to Steve Thomas, he was denied subpoenas for the phone records by the DA's office. After a year had gone by, he apparently got a signed limited permission letter from JR for some phone records, but only the home phone and his cell phone. The land line records for the month of December were unremarkable. The cell phone records were reportedly blank. Upon query to the cell phone carrier (Air Touch) about the ability to remove billing records from their computer, Thomas was informed there was "no way". And yet previous months records show an average of 90-100 minutes usage. Zero calls from December 1 - 27. It's just not believable. Someone had those records wiped.

Yes, they were wiped. All records are kept so this had to be another political influence maneuver.

Obviously JR is mistaken about the coroner. He wasn't there until hours after they had cleared the house of the R's and all their pals.

Why would JR say that is ALL he remembers? I realize we can’t believe a word from the R’s mouths. I also realize that the coroner didn’t show up until 8 something in the evening to process the body for removal from the home. They didn’t determine at that time the TOD. So many overlooked details in the case. It all makes you go … Hum.

PR's actions and demeanor at times that day are suspicious, as are JR's. The looking through her fingers bit.......her wailing and carrying on and then just leaving "her baby" behind like that feels very off to me. I live in Colorado and very distinctly remember all the news coverage, it was unavoidable. And I can tell you that the consensus of opinion here was that of being suspicious of the parents from day one. How they handled themselves from the beginning seemed off. The televised interview they did with CNN so soon afterwards, and before full on interviews with LE just underscored for most people here that something wasn't right and that they were most likely involved in JBR's death.

And therefore we have the true bills!

 

[CloudedTruth]

Yes, they were wiped. All records are kept so this had to be another political influence maneuver.


Why would JR say that is ALL he remembers? I realize we can’t believe a word from the R’s mouths. I also realize that the coroner didn’t show up until 8 something in the evening to process the body for removal from the home. They didn’t determine at that time the TOD. So many overlooked details in the case. It all makes you go … Hum.


And therefore we have the true bills!

Well, before JR says he signed the paper that was handed to him, he first says "the coroner", and then he says he thinks it was the coroner, but refers to that person as "her". The coroner at that time was a man, so we know it was not the coroner. He also says whatever he signed had to do with performing an autopsy. So I think it's pretty clear he was unsure who it was that handed him that paper to sign. The interview took place in late June of 1998, so a full year and a half after the crime. I wouldn't be able to remember everything either after that amount of time had elapsed. In my mind it's criminal that the R's legal and PR machines were able to delay proper interviews for so long.

 

[Rain on my Parade]

The coroner at that time was a man, so we know it was not the coroner. He also says whatever he signed had to do with performing an autopsy. So I think it's pretty clear he was unsure who it was that handed him that paper to sign. The interview took place in late June of 1998, so a full year and a half after the crime. I wouldn't be able to remember everything either after that amount of time had elapsed.

He seemed pretty adamant about it. I mean how many questions are posed to them that they can’t remember!
<modsnip - politics unrelated to the thread>

 

[CloudedTruth]

He seemed pretty adamant about it. I mean how many questions are posed to them that they can’t remember!

<modsnip - politics unrelated to the thread>

Agree. So for me, the question becomes why? I believe that there is something very dark at the heart of all of this that resulted in an immediate circling of the wagons not just by R friends, but also of those in positions of power and wealth. I think it was not just JR who needed to be "protected" from the truth being exposed.

 

[Rain on my Parade]

Agree. So for me, the question becomes why? I believe that there is something very dark at the heart of all of this that resulted in an immediate circling of the wagons not just by R friends, but also of those in positions of power and wealth. I think it was not just JR who needed to be "protected" from the truth being exposed.

Agreed!

 

[Rain on my Parade]

I have been thinking about the missing links in this case. So, for starters let’s start here:

No officer that was wearing Hi-Tec boots entered into the cellar where the boot print was located. Walker and Mason stood at the doorway of the wine cellar when they arrived after JBR was found.

This is the point that people miss out on. It doesn’t matter if that was Burke’s print in the cellar or not. Let’s say that it wasn’t.

It’s the fact that John, Patsy, and their legal team hid and lied about the fact that Burke owned them! That’s what points to their guilt. There would be no reason to lie about this if they were innocent. Period.

Why all the hiding, dodging, evasive; I don’t remember action’s?

Many more lies that shall lead us to the truth.

We can start with Susan Stine:

Narrator: On their way home around 9 PM, they dropped off gifts. Susan Stein and her husband were the last people known to have seen the family before the murder.

Susan Stine: "They came to our house and I talked to Patsy for awhile maybe 10 or 15 minutes and they all seemed perfectly normal. They were all the same - bubbly about Christmas and about where they were going and we, my husband and I, waved good-bye to them as they were leaving and that was the last time we saw them as an intact family."

Starting at the beginning ...
Susan Stine

Where was DS? He wasn’t mentioned as saying goodbye.

Interviewer: Boulder Police
Interviewee: John Ramsey
Date of Interview: April 30, 1997
Interviewed At: Boulder District Attorney’s Office
Case: Hasson/Ramsey
Case No: 96-423
JR: Uh, it was probably 8:30 p.m., quarter to nine when we left as I recall. And uh, we had gift baskets for the Walkers, for the Stines, for the Franks, and we left the White’s and we took a basket to the Walkers; as I recall Patsy went in and I stayed in the car; we drove to the Stines and did the same thing, uh, and debated on whether to go to the Franks or not, but it was getting late and that was a ways away, so we decided to go home. So we probably got home about nineish, nine-fifteen I think, drove in the back through the alley into the garage. Uh JonBenet had fallen fast to sleep. Uh, I carried her inside and took her upstairs and put her in bed, put her on her bed. Uh Patsy came up behind me, and then I went down to get Burke ready for bed, he was down in the living room, working on a toy he got putting it together, and tried to get him to go to bed because we had to get up early the next morning, but he wanted to get this toy put together, so I worked with him on that for 10 15 minutes probably; and then I took him up to bed and got his pajamas on, probably brushed his teeth, and then I went up stairs from there and got ready for bed. I read her a little bit. The lights went out around ten-thirtyish or ten-forty.

1997 April 30 - Taped Interrogation interview of Patsy Ramsey by Steve Thomas and Tom Trujillo in Colorado
NE Book Page 47:
Tom Trujillo: "Okay. Got home about 8:30, 9:00. What's the first thing you guys do when you got home that night? Actually, let me step back. Befofe you got home, you went over to.."
Patsy Ramsey: "Walkers and dropped off a little gift... and Stines and dropped off a little gift and drove home and JonBenet was asleep. She had fallen asleep in the car."
Tom Trujillo: "Did you have to wake her up to get her inside or..?"
Patsy Ramsey: "Well, she was just really zonked and John carried her up to her room... and, I, uh, you know, ran up behind him and, or in front of him, I can't remember. Maybe, or it might have been in front of him to turn the bed down. And he laid her down and I got her undressed and put her, I left her shirt on her and, uh, went to the bathroom and tried to find some pajama pants and all I could find was some, like long underwear pants... and put those on."
PR original statement to the police Dec.26th, 1996:
When Officer French arrived at the Ramsey home early that morning, Patsy told him that Jonbenet had gone to bed wearing a red turtleneck. When Jonbenet was found she was wearing a white Gap shirt (the same shirt she had been wearing the previous day).

BR:
Based on Schiller and Thomas’s summaries (see below) we can piece together these aspects of Burke’s account of that evening:

• Jonbenet fell asleep in the car on the way home, but woke up to help carry presents into the house of a friend (the Stines).
  
  
• When they got home, Jonbenet was still awake. She walked in slowly and went up the spiral stairs to bed, just ahead of Patsy.
  
  
• Burke remained downstairs and played with a toy with John. He and John talked about how it was time for bed.
  
  
• He didn't remember when he went to bed.

Was JB asleep? If so, when did she awake to eat the fruit cocktail?

Thread #1
Thread #2

Why stress they all? Did something actually happen to JB at the Stine’s? Not according to Burke! I recall him stating JB ran up the spiral staircase with PR, a chase behind.

This is a huge whole in the R’s story.

Here she goes again, but there is even more -

Chief Mark Beckner is alarmed by the discovery that his name and position as Boulder Police Chief has been used in an effort to communicate with others. "Given the history of the Ramsey case and the concerns we have had with information being distributed to the public, often times inaccurate information, this discovery is disturbing," stated Chief Beckner. "I want the media and public to know that if they have received communications from this e-mail address purporting to be me, that it is bogus. My official e-mail address is public and is becknerm@ci.boulder.co.us."

Under Colorado law, Criminal Impersonation is a class 6 felony and Impersonating a Police Officer is a Class I Misdemeanor.

The Boulder Police Department and the Boulder County District Attorney's Office have agreed to issue a letter to Susan Stine advising her of the unlawful conduct and that the use of Chief Beckner's name in such a manner must cease immediately. The becknerbpd@hotmail.com account has been frozen by MSN Hotmail.

The Boulder Police Department would like anyone receiving e-mail messages from any reported member of the Boulder Police Department to know that official e-mail addresses use the members last name and first initial followed by @ci.boulder.co.us. If you are not sure that a message is legitimate, please call the department member to confirm that they did in fact send the message. "We are concerned that there could be other messages out there reportedly from either me or other department members that are fake in an attempt to either receive information or communicate false information," stated Beckner.

On June 3, 2003, Chief Beckner did receive an e-mail from Susan Stine in which she apologized for using the hotmail account, describing it as a sophomoric prank and apologizing for any distress she may have caused.

Why did she do this?

What’s going on here?

 

[Rain on my Parade]

So why was Susan Stine such a warrior for PR? They disowned the Whites as well as many other friends during this time. I understand FW actually did go into the wine cellar that morning without JR knowledge before JB was found. He didn’t see anything.

About the poon print from the hi-tec boots; they had to have belonged to BR. He would have needed a chair to crawl up on to unlatch the door in order to even get in the wine cellar. JR stated there was a chair and it was a tall chair (bar height) blocking the door to the train room. I wonder how many times that chair was moved that night and the next morning?

Anybody want to give their input?

 

[CloudedTruth]

So why was Susan Stine such a warrior for PR? They disowned the Whites as well as many other friends during this time. I understand FW actually did go into the wine cellar that morning without JR knowledge before JB was found. He didn’t see anything.

About the poon print from the hi-tec boots; they had to have belonged to BR. He would have needed a chair to crawl up on to unlatch the door in order to even get in the wine cellar. JR stated there was a chair and it was a tall chair (bar height) blocking the door to the train room. I wonder how many times that chair was moved that night and the next morning?

Anybody want to give their input?

All valid questions. I too would love to understand why Susan was such a warrior....to the point of impersonating Chief Beckner. And then there's the fact that Glenn quit his job at the University of Colorado to move to Atlanta to work with JR. Interesting to note that prior to JBR's murder, most described them as "casual" friends with the R's. They sure cozied up after the murder.

FW did open the door of the wine cellar that morning, but could not find the light switch. Questions would be was he wandering around in the dark down there? If the basement hall light had been on, given the placement of the body he should have been able to see her wrapped in the blanket. If the light was not on, one would think he would have needed a flashlight to see where he was going, which he could easily have shined into the wine cellar. This is why some people think that when JR went missing for about an hour prior to 11AM, that he moved the body from wherever it was hidden into the wine cellar.

I also believe the boots were BR's. The chair's presence and positioning seems to indicate it was used in some capacity. What about those presents that mysteriously were partially ripped open? That definitely feels like something a kid would do rather than a parent (PR).

 

[Meara]

In response to recent comments about the missing phone records and the Rams' hiring of so many attorneys, I recommend reading the "Lawyering JonBenet" thread at Forums for Justice. Lots of details not easily found elsewhere, lots to think about. Here's the link:

https://www.forumsforjustice.org/forums/threads/lawyering-jonbenet.7621/
Lawyering JonBenet

 

[Rain on my Parade]

All valid questions. I too would love to understand why Susan was such a warrior....to the point of impersonating Chief Beckner. And then there's the fact that Glenn quit his job at the University of Colorado to move to Atlanta to work with JR. Interesting to note that prior to JBR's murder, most described them as "casual" friends with the R's. They sure cozied up after the murder.

The R’s say that they weren’t that good of friends before JB’s demise. There was that recent trip to NYC, together. Also it was SS that opened the door to the police during the party on the 23rd without inviting them inside for Christmas Cheer. Makes me wonder in the back of my mind how much BR and DS played (perhaps doctor) with JB behind closed doors. Perhaps SS was in awe of PR or maybe a little bit more. Either way, something’s point in this direction. All because of the tossing aside they did with other friends in Boulder. Plus, as Meara has so gracefully pointed out to us (via link):

• Mike Bynum told Fleet White that Haddon and Morgan were handling things and that he should stay out of it. (As Fleet told me, that is when the intimidation began. The night of December 26, 1996 at 5PM, Mike Bynum summoned Fleet to his office. Apparently FW knew to much about JB’s death as a witness. The law firm went several steps further (here is one more):
• Haddon had his PI’s on the street early AM 12/27/96, often beating the BPD to witnesses. And so we are left to wonder about the neighbors of the R’s: Joe Barnhill, and Melody Staton.

FW did open the door of the wine cellar that morning, but could not find the light switch. Questions would be was he wandering around in the dark down there? If the basement hall light had been on, given the placement of the body he should have been able to see her wrapped in the blanket. If the light was not on, one would think he would have needed a flashlight to see where he was going, which he could easily have shined into the wine cella. This is why some people think that when JR went missing for about an hour prior to 11AM, that he moved the body from wherever it was hidden into the wine cellar.

FW was not wondering around in the dark down there. As a matter of fact it was said the basement lights were already on that morning. Sure the wine cellar was completely dark as was the room behind the laundry; plus the closets. Since all rooms had light switches; one would not need a flashlight.
It is further said that JR had such bad eyesight that he could not fly (had to have a pilot) and that FW had 20/20.
Yes, JR disappearance that morning was very questionable. To move the body is extremely risky. I think that FW didn’t see inside the wine cellar because it was so dark in there. The hall lighting wasn’t enough to see inside. Although he may have seen something there but couldn’t make out what it was. I believe the reading in as to why JR saw JB immediately upon entering the wine cellar is because he knew where JB was resting. PR sat directly above her daughter’s corpse; in the sunroom. I further understand she vomited that morning in that room.

I also believe the boots were BR's. The chair's presence and positioning seems to indicate it was used in some capacity. What about those presents that mysteriously were partially ripped open? That definitely feels like something a kid would do rather than a parent (PR).

BR said he was in the basement playing and PR was down there on the 25th wrapping presents. Maybe he opened those gifts that morning and lead JB down that path that night? He admits to going down stairs the night of the 25th after his folks went to bed. JB’s feet were dusty. Which leads me to believe she was walking down there before her tragic end. Also she was SA and strangled in front of the wine cellar door. Yes, BR was in the wine cellar and according to him he opened the gifts. Admittedly so did PR? Why did they both confess? We could also look at the dna found on the top/bottom, inside/outside of the Barbie nightgown (with JB blood found along the front) to go deeper.

Thank you for your input!

 

[Rain on my Parade]

In response to recent comments about the missing phone records and the Rams' hiring of so many attorneys, I recommend reading the "Lawyering JonBenet" thread at Forums for Justice. Lots of details not easily found elsewhere, lots to think about. Here's the link:

Lawyering JonBenet
Lawyering JonBenet

Meara,
Reading, thank you!

 

[Rain on my Parade]

All mothers should be aware if their daughter are being SA. Especially if they are seeing a therapist. Just like all mothers should be aware of who wipes your daughter’s bottom. Whether or not your child takes a bath. Mothers should be aware; especially if you’re going to start telling her about no touching where the bathing suit touches; but turns her back on her words. Just repeats her words after each offense? Your daughter is 4 years old.

What say ye?

 

[CloudedTruth]

All mothers should be aware if their daughter are being SA. Especially if they are seeing a therapist. Just like all mothers should be aware of who wipes your daughter’s bottom. Whether or not your child takes a bath. Mothers should be aware; especially if you’re going to start telling her about no touching where the bathing suit touches; but turns her back on her words. Just repeats her words after each offense? Your daughter is 4 years old.

What say ye?

Absolutely. PR seemed checked out about certain things.

While I know that PR did some charity work, and there was the time taken for the pageants and all that required, she was also a stay at home mom. One of the things that always bothered me were the reported messy and lazy issues with both her children. Dropping toys and clothes wherever they felt like it and expecting someone else to pick up after them and put things away, and most disturbing were the toilet habits of both BR and JBR of not flushing. And PR seemed to be kind of nonchalant about it when she made those admissions. It seems to be in contrast to the picture of a perfect little family portrayal and her always being perfectly turned out, one would expect that she would be embarrassed by such revelations of her children's behavior. To me, this presents a picture of a parent who doesn't really parent when it comes to certain issues. I do of course understand that she was ill for awhile, but she just comes across as not very engaged with her children unless it's something fun or pleasant to her.