Lies point us to the truth

[Logic101]

I do not hear BR guessing. He merely states. He states he knows what happened.

DOI Page 321
BR knife (which had been hidden in the cabinet with the diapers in the 2nd floor laundry by LHP) was found on the countertop near a sink, just a short distance from where JonBenet's body was found. The implication was that the killer could have used the knife to cut the nylon cord used to tie JonBenet's wrists together. The cord was also used to make the garrote placed around her neck, which ultimately resulted in her death by strangulation.

Let’s not forget BR was known to whittle and that was the reason the knife was taken from him by LHP and hidden in the first place. Perhaps (big word for you) he whittled the paintbrush to help it snap into three separate pieces.

How could he have possibly known she was hit over the head unless he was in the basement or he was involved.

You must remember he did the knife slashing gesture before the head bash gesture, which seems to indicate that Burke thought she was somehow injured by a knife. Again, it was pretty obvious that he gave it his best shot at GUESSING!

 

[UKGuy]

UKGuy,
Odd indeed! Just moving on with my life he states. This is a traumatic event. Other children in Boulder @ the time were afraid, but not Burke. Brave indeed considering his sister was murdered two floors beneath where he slept.

Rain on my Parade,
I reckon he was play-acting all the way through, either at his parents request or/and his own decision?

Consider the news coverage and Burke is blase about it all, and no questions, other than What did you find?

Is that a sociopathic trait, a feature of being somewhere on the autistic spectrum, or just because his parents told him what to say?

.

 

[Rain on my Parade]

Rain on my Parade,
I reckon he was play-acting all the way through, either at his parents request or/and his own decision?

Consider the news coverage and Burke is blase about it all, and no questions, other than What did you find?

Is that a sociopathic trait, a feature of being somewhere on the autistic spectrum, or just because his parents told him what to say?

.

UKGuy,
Well, let’s see. Dr. Phil was of the opinion that BR has an antisocial personality. So, perhaps ASPD and ODD apply to BR. Indictment (count VII) speaks volumes here doesn’t it? BR wasn’t of age to be considered suspect.

I don’t see BR play acting as noted by Dr. Bernard. When he was asked what happened and then covered his head with the board game it was an attempt to conceal. He had something to hide. Although he did admit he knew what happened. His friend Andrew whom accompanied him to the funeral said he got the impression that BR knew what happened and was just waiting for it to just come out.
So, if he is merely repeating what he is told to say (why on earth would he be made apart of any of this)? Why not go to your room and do not leave until I come and get you from the start (not just after we call the cops)?

 

[Rain on my Parade]

You must remember he did the knife slashing gesture before the head bash gesture, which seems to indicate that Burke thought she was somehow injured by a knife. Again, it was pretty obvious that he gave it his best shot at GUESSING!

I recall BR mentioned the knife and then the head bash in that order. How in the world could a child of nine imagine (guess) at such a thing?

 

[Logic101]

I do not hear BR guessing. He merely states. He states he knows what happened.

DOI Page 321
BR knife (which had been hidden in the cabinet with the diapers in the 2nd floor laundry by LHP) was found on the countertop near a sink, just a short distance from where JonBenet's body was found. The implication was that the killer could have used the knife to cut the nylon cord used to tie JonBenet's wrists together. The cord was also used to make the garrote placed around her neck, which ultimately resulted in her death by strangulation.

Let’s not forget BR was known to whittle and that was the reason the knife was taken from him by LHP and hidden in the first place. Perhaps (big word for you) he whittled the paintbrush to help it snap into three separate pieces.

How could he have possibly known she was hit over the head unless he was in the basement or he was involved.

You must remember he did the knife slashing gesture before the head bash gesture, which seems to indicate that Burke thought she was somehow injured by a knife. Again, it was pretty obvious that he gave it his best shot at GUESSING!

I recall BR mentioned the knife and then the head bash in that order. How in the world could a child of nine imagine (guess) at such a thing?

That is precisely what I said! He mentions the knife first and we both know that a knife had nothing whatsoever to do with her injuries.

 

[UKGuy]

UKGuy,
Well, let’s see. Dr. Phil was of the opinion that BR has an antisocial personality. So, perhaps ASPD and ODD apply to BR. Indictment (count VII) speaks volumes here doesn’t it? BR wasn’t of age to be considered suspect.

I don’t see BR play acting as noted by Dr. Bernard. When he was asked what happened and then covered his head with the board game it was an attempt to conceal. He had something to hide. Although he did admit he knew what happened. His friend Andrew whom accompanied him to the funeral said he got the impression that BR knew what happened and was just waiting for it to just come out.
So, if he is merely repeating what he is told to say (why on earth would he be made apart of any of this)? Why not go to your room and do not leave until I come and get you from the start (not just after we call the cops)?

Rain on my Parade,
Yes what Dr. Phil said, IMO, was rhetoric to defend Burke's poor media performance.

Consider Burke finishes school, goes to university seems to socialize OK, has a girlfriend, gets his degree, obtains a position at some company and appears to be working away?

All that does not strike me as someone with an antisocial personality.

I tend more to one of two views: Burke is autistic or/and as a child he had a short temper?

One aspect to a BDI theory is that it does not need to have a sexual component, that feature may have been added by the parents as staging?

Although I am skeptical regarding this because if it was all an accident or fall out between children then why not phone for medical assistance for JonBenet?

The case appears to be either BDI or JDI, but if it is JDI then why would John redress JonBenet in the size-12 underwear and Burke's longjohns, as an adult he would know they represent a red flag and the whole idea behind the staging is to avoid red flags?

I think I can explain why nearly all the relevant forensic items found in the basement were there, and BDI does this best.

Importantly some items I doubt if John ever knew they existed, so he is a poor fit as a suspect.

.

 

[Rain on my Parade]

That is precisely what I said! He mentions the knife first and we both know that a knife had nothing whatsoever to do with her injuries.

And what day you ... someone took her quietly down to the basement?

 

[Rain on my Parade]

Rain on my Parade,
Yes what Dr. Phil said, IMO, was rhetoric to defend Burke's poor media performance.

Consider Burke finishes school, goes to university seems to socialize OK, has a girlfriend, gets his degree, obtains a position at some company and appears to be working away?

All that does not strike me as someone with an antisocial personality.

I tend more to one of two views: Burke is autistic or/and as a child he had a short temper?

One aspect to a BDI theory is that it does not need to have a sexual component, that feature may have been added by the parents as staging?

Although I am skeptical regarding this because if it was all an accident or fall out between children then why not phone for medical assistance for JonBenet?

The case appears to be either BDI or JDI, but if it is JDI then why would John redress JonBenet in the size-12 underwear and Burke's longjohns, as an adult he would know they represent a red flag and the whole idea behind the staging is to avoid red flags?

I think I can explain why nearly all the relevant forensic items found in the basement were there, and BDI does this best.

Importantly some items I doubt if John ever knew they existed, so he is a poor fit as a suspect.

.

UKGuy,
I see Dr. Phil’s reaction to Burke as tiptoeing. He shows such a different demeanor during his day time shows. I avoid watching his shows because there is to much screaming banter. I figure he accepted at this interview Arms wide open as a chance to pick up a story that was BIG and good for his ratings. It was probably in the contract that he could not attack Burke. As far as Burke mental position, again, I feel like Dr. Phil summed it up with a coat of sugar.

Purdue does offer online classes for computer technology as well as aviation. So, perhaps he spent most of his time getting his degree via online. Also, Burke works from home. Most IT workers, work for a company. Just saying, it’s a possibility.


You are correct in if BDI it doesn’t have to have a sexual component. If somebody other then BR was touching JB down there or it was common knowledge (they played doctor) then why allow them to sleep together? Perhaps it was a form of corporal punishment. Who knows. I strongly feel that is was a big part of the reasoning for coverup and staging. I believe this is the main reason medical assistance wasn’t called for.

If the person that initially got angry with JB was PR or JR, the only was I can see one covering for the other (as a parent) is if one or the other hit her on the head. But that doesn’t explain why BR is so privy to such information. Nor does it explain the indictment for both parents. They covered up for someone that murdered JB. Wonder who that third person is?

 

[UKGuy]

UKGuy,
I see Dr. Phil’s reaction to Burke as tiptoeing. He shows such a different demeanor during his day time shows. I avoid watching his shows because there is to much screaming banter. I figure he accepted at this interview Arms wide open as a chance to pick up a story that was BIG and good for his ratings. It was probably in the contract that he could not attack Burke. As far as Burke mental position, again, I feel like Dr. Phil summed it up with a coat of sugar.

Purdue does offer online classes for computer technology as well as aviation. So, perhaps he spent most of his time getting his degree via online. Also, Burke works from home. Most IT workers, work for a company. Just saying, it’s a possibility.


You are correct in if BDI it doesn’t have to have a sexual component. If somebody other then BR was touching JB down there or it was common knowledge (they played doctor) then why allow them to sleep together? Perhaps it was a form of corporal punishment. Who knows. I strongly feel that is was a big part of the reasoning for coverup and staging. I believe this is the main reason medical assistance wasn’t called for.

If the person that initially got angry with JB was PR or JR, the only was I can see one covering for the other (as a parent) is if one or the other hit her on the head. But that doesn’t explain why BR is so privy to such information. Nor does it explain the indictment for both parents. They covered up for someone that murdered JB. Wonder who that third person is?

Rain on my Parade,
John Ramsey effectively hired Dr. Phil to do a PR job on BR. There were media companies setup in the background where the broadcast rights were sold on. John was attempting to control the media narrative about Burke and JonBenet.

Also, Burke works from home. Most IT workers, work for a company. Just saying, it’s a possibility.

How convenient, and in a covid world, no longer unusual.

They covered up for someone that murdered JB. Wonder who that third person is?

So says the True Bill, but it does not have to correct. The Counts might be setup in such a manner as to mask the identity of the person?

Also one of accusations leveled against the person is Child Abuse. So what does that mean?

Here is where I think the True Bills deviate: I reckon John and Patsy were hit with Murder in the First Degree. They could also be hit with a Child Abuse count?

Now a third party or person can only be Burke Ramsey, yet he cannot be prosecuted for any crimes due to him being beneath the age of criminal responsibility, yet COUNT VII says the person was suspected of the crime of Murder in the First Degree and Child Abuse Resulting in Death.

So the contradiction here is either the person murdered JonBenet or the parents did, not unless the charges are acting as a party instrument, sometimes known in the US as a conspiracy?

It might be that all three persons involved in the death of JonBenet were hit with exactly the same charges?

This is why the interview below was important:
BPD 1998 -Interview with Patsy, excerpt

25 TOM HANEY: Okay. Ms. Ramsey, are
1 you aware that there had been prior vaginal
2 intrusion on JonBenet?
3 PATSY RAMSEY: No, I am not.
4 Prior to the night she was killed?
5 TOM HANEY: Correct.
6 PATSY RAMSEY: No, I am not.
7 TOM HANEY: Didn't know that?
8 PATSY RAMSEY: No, I didn't.
9 TOM HANEY: Does that surprise you?
10 PATSY RAMSEY: Extremely.
11 TOM HANEY: Does that shock you?
12 PATSY RAMSEY: It shocks me.
13 TOM HANEY: Does it bother you?
14 PATSY RAMSEY: Yes, it does.
15 TOM HANEY: Who, how could she have
16 been violated like that?
17 PATSY RAMSEY: I don't know. This
18 is the absolute first time I ever heard that.
19 TOM HANEY: Take a minute, if you
20 would, I mean this seems -- you know, you didn't
21 know that before right now, the 25th, at 2:32?
22 PATSY RAMSEY: No, I absolutely
23 did not.

Tom Haney is saying to Patsy we know that you know that someone, i.e. the person, was abusing JonBenet!

So in any court trial this question would have to be put to Patsy again along with any forensic evidence.

Neither the Ramsey's or Hunter would want that.

.

 

[Rain on my Parade]

UKGuy,
Burke graduated in 2009.
He lives and works alone
Even after his media appearance in 2016, Burke continues to keep things private. He is employed as a software engineer, choosing to work out of his home so as to avoid being around other people in an office. This is long before COVID-19.

So says the True Bill, but it does not have to correct. The Counts might be setup in such a manner as to mask the identity of the person?

Also one of accusations leveled against the person is Child Abuse. So what does that mean?

Here is where I think the True Bills deviate: I reckon John and Patsy were hit with Murder in the First Degree. They could also be hit with a Child Abuse count?

Now a third party or person can only be Burke Ramsey, yet he cannot be prosecuted for any crimes due to him being beneath the age of criminal responsibility, yet COUNT VII says the person was suspected of the crime of Murder in the First Degree and Child Abuse Resulting in Death.

So the contradiction here is either the person murdered JonBenet or the parents did, not unless the charges are acting as a party instrument, sometimes known in the US as a conspiracy?

Both parents received indictment’s for child abuse. Placed in a situation that resulted is JB death which count VI accounts for. Although count VII states knowing the person being assisted has committed and was suspected of the crime of murder in the first degree and child abuse resulting in death. Is this what you mean in reference to conspiracy and if so; isn’t this also punishable in a court of law? It is my understanding that the jury couldn’t decide who did what so that is why they didn’t follow up with the indictment. Seems to be if they came to these conclusions and handed down these indictments they should have been held accountable for something.

Tom Haney is saying to Patsy we know that you know that someone, i.e. the person, was abusing JonBenet!

So in any court trial this question would have to be put to Patsy again along with any forensic evidence.

Neither the Ramsey's or Hunter would want that.

Since you obviously understand the workings in the court of law would you be so kind as to break it down as to (whom feel did what) based on what you know?
I guess the forensic evidence would be prior that PR wished to avoid.
So, they just walked with felony indictments? How does the ordinary Joe do that?

 

[UKGuy]

UKGuy,
Burke graduated in 2009.
He lives and works alone
Even after his media appearance in 2016, Burke continues to keep things private. He is employed as a software engineer, choosing to work out of his home so as to avoid being around other people in an office. This is long before COVID-19.



Both parents received indictment’s for child abuse. Placed in a situation that resulted is JB death which count VI accounts for. Although count VII states knowing the person being assisted has committed and was suspected of the crime of murder in the first degree and child abuse resulting in death. Is this what you mean in reference to conspiracy and if so; isn’t this also punishable in a court of law? It is my understanding that the jury couldn’t decide who did what so that is why they didn’t follow up with the indictment. Seems to be if they came to these conclusions and handed down these indictments they should have been held accountable for something.



Since you obviously understand the workings in the court of law would you be so kind as to break it down as to (whom feel did what) based on what you know?
I guess the forensic evidence would be prior that PR wished to avoid.
So, they just walked with felony indictments? How does the ordinary Joe do that?

Rain on my Parade,
Without sight of the original indictments being exact is not possible.

There are five scenarios:

1. BDI - No parental input.

2. BDI - Parental input.

3. JDI - Solo

4. PDI - Solo

5. PDI + JDI - Both parents involved.

1. Means nobody goes to court because nothing is filed as BR is beneath the age of responsibility.

2. Means both parents charged with multiple Counts of Murder in the First Degree.

3. Means JR alone is charged with multiple Counts of Murder in the First Degree.

4. Means PR alone is charged with multiple Counts of Murder in the First Degree.

5. Means both parents charged with multiple Counts of Murder in the First Degree.

2. & 5. represent a conspiracy.

Murder in the First Degree is the prominent indictment and based on the evidence publicly available it appears Patsy asphyxiated JonBenet, naturally this is speculation, i.e. that's a legal rider.

All the other charges are derivative and secondary in legal force.

So in legal , technical terms the case is PDI.


So although we can speculate that the case might be PDI is it scenario 2. or 4. your choice will depend on who consider the person to be?

I prefer scenario 2. it explains more.

Scenario 5. is possible given the assumed Counts the Grand Jury returned against both parents.

Speculating here is an outline scenario:

Burke whacks JonBenet accidentally leaving her in a coma, after redressing her in his longjohns and Patsy's niece's size-12 Bloomingdales, he stages her asleep in bed.

Patsy awakens to find JonBenet unresponsive in her bed, the rest is all staging either by Patsy alone or assisted by John?

.

 

[Rain on my Parade]

Rain on my Parade,
Without sight of the original indictments being exact is not possible.

There are five scenarios:

1. BDI - No parental input.

2. BDI - Parental input.

3. JDI - Solo

4. PDI - Solo

5. PDI + JDI - Both parents involved.

1. Means nobody goes to court because nothing is filed as BR is beneath the age of responsibility.

2. Means both parents charged with multiple Counts of Murder in the First Degree.

3. Means JR alone is charged with multiple Counts of Murder in the First Degree.

4. Means PR alone is charged with multiple Counts of Murder in the First Degree.

5. Means both parents charged with multiple Counts of Murder in the First Degree.

2. & 5. represent a conspiracy.

Murder in the First Degree is the prominent indictment and based on the evidence publicly available it appears Patsy asphyxiated JonBenet, naturally this is speculation, i.e. that's a legal rider.

All the other charges are derivative and secondary in legal force.

So in legal , technical terms the case is PDI.


So although we can speculate that the case might be PDI is it scenario 2. or 4. your choice will depend on who consider the person to be?

I prefer scenario 2. it explains more.

Scenario 5. is possible given the assumed Counts the Grand Jury returned against both parents.

Speculating here is an outline scenario:

Burke whacks JonBenet accidentally leaving her in a coma, after redressing her in his longjohns and Patsy's niece's size-12 Bloomingdales, he stages her asleep in bed.

Patsy awakens to find JonBenet unresponsive in her bed, the rest is all staging either by Patsy alone or assisted by John?

.

UKGuy,
Most excellent. I know you are of the opinion the staging started in JB bedroom. Is this because fibers found on her shirt link her there?

 

[David Rogers]

Rain on my Parade,
Without sight of the original indictments being exact is not possible.

There are five scenarios:

1. BDI - No parental input.

2. BDI - Parental input.

3. JDI - Solo

4. PDI - Solo

5. PDI + JDI - Both parents involved.

1. Means nobody goes to court because nothing is filed as BR is beneath the age of responsibility.

2. Means both parents charged with multiple Counts of Murder in the First Degree.

3. Means JR alone is charged with multiple Counts of Murder in the First Degree.

4. Means PR alone is charged with multiple Counts of Murder in the First Degree.

5. Means both parents charged with multiple Counts of Murder in the First Degree.

2. & 5. represent a conspiracy.

Murder in the First Degree is the prominent indictment and based on the evidence publicly available it appears Patsy asphyxiated JonBenet, naturally this is speculation, i.e. that's a legal rider.

All the other charges are derivative and secondary in legal force.

So in legal , technical terms the case is PDI.


So although we can speculate that the case might be PDI is it scenario 2. or 4. your choice will depend on who consider the person to be?

I prefer scenario 2. it explains more.

Scenario 5. is possible given the assumed Counts the Grand Jury returned against both parents.

Speculating here is an outline scenario:

Burke whacks JonBenet accidentally leaving her in a coma, after redressing her in his longjohns and Patsy's niece's size-12 Bloomingdales, he stages her asleep in bed.

Patsy awakens to find JonBenet unresponsive in her bed, the rest is all staging either by Patsy alone or assisted by John?

.

Great line of reasoning.

 

[proust20]

Let's not give the good Dr Phil credit for being able to give an insightful, accurate diagnosis of BR, or of anybody for that matter. IMO a glib snake oil salesman taking advantage of people in distress for big bucks. I believe that LW represented him as well. Besides, MSM exists to serve up propaganda. GMAB
A problem that I have with BDI is that BR hasn't had any violent history after 1996 about which we know.

 

[UKGuy]

Let's not give the good Dr Phil credit for being able to give an insightful, accurate diagnosis of BR, or of anybody for that matter. IMO a glib snake oil salesman taking advantage of people in distress for big bucks. I believe that LW represented him as well. Besides, MSM exists to serve up propaganda. GMAB
A problem that I have with BDI is that BR hasn't had any violent history after 1996 about which we know.

proust20,
Lets put it this way if the case is BDI then BR will have been under medical supervision since then.

Also its interesting to note that most violent outbursts by children on the autistic spectrum occur as they enter puberty then decrease thereafter, with all the usual exceptions to the rule.

Burke Ramsey may have been entering puberty in 1996 with all the potential hormonal consequences if he was on the autistic spectrum?

.

 

[UKGuy]

UKGuy,
Most excellent. I know you are of the opinion the staging started in JB bedroom. Is this because fibers found on her shirt link her there?

Rain on my Parade,
No, it because I think JonBenet made it to her bedroom, consider her ponytails, absence of her pink pajama bottoms, along with the mess in her bedroom, and that JonBenet and Burke shared her bedroom on the night she died.

Burke and JonBenet shared a bedroom on Christmas eve, so why not Christmas night?

The above neglects Kolar's remarks about Burke's longjohns and the fecally stained pajama bottoms left on JonBenet's bedroom floor.

.

 

[Logic101]

Rain on my Parade,
No, it because I think JonBenet made it to her bedroom, consider her ponytails, absence of her pink pajama bottoms, along with the mess in her bedroom, and that JonBenet and Burke shared her bedroom on the night she died.

Burke and JonBenet shared a bedroom on Christmas eve, so why not Christmas night?

The above neglects Kolar's remarks about Burke's longjohns and the fecally stained pajama bottoms left on JonBenet's bedroom floor.

.

We do not know that Burke and JonBenet shared a bedroom Christmas Eve! Patsy NEVER said that. She said that she “was not sure” if JonBenet might
have gone over to Burke’s room during the night. It is NOT ok to put information out there as fact, when it is anything, but!

 

[Rain on my Parade]

We do not know that Burke and JonBenet shared a bedroom Christmas Eve! Patsy NEVER said that. She said that she “was not sure” if JonBenet might
have gone over to Burke’s room during the night. It is NOT ok to put information out there as fact, when it is anything, but!

Logic101,
Jumping in here. It was BR in his 1998 interview that stated JB slept in his room.

 

[Logic101]

Logic101,
Jumping in here. It was BR in his 1998 interview that stated JB slept in his room.

Just to refresh our memory, maybe you can give us the link to that interview. I don’t recall Burke having made that statement!

 

[Rain on my Parade]

Just to refresh our memory, maybe you can give us the link to that interview. I don’t recall Burke having made that statement!

Logic101,
Burke Ramsey's 1998 Interview (Collected Transcripts) : JonBenetRamsey