MA - Lindsay Clancy, Strangled 3 Children in Murder/Suicide Attempt, Duxbury, Jan 2023

[LaborDayRN]

Just as horrifying as the Andrea Yates crimes.

Rest in peace, Cora, Dawson, and Callan !

True but in this case the husband was trying to help her and the children. It seems he really cared. AY's husband did litte else with the exception of continueing to impregnate his mentally ill wife. JMO of course.

 

[Knox]

When you're psychotic, you're not able to reason. You lose the ability to have coherent thoughts or plan things out. It doesn't surprise me that she attempted suicide by jumping out of a second story window. She likely wasn't able to make the conclusion that she wouldn't die. Sometimes, people in psychosis are so frightened and paranoid, they just run. When I'm treating patients in the emergency room, anytime someone is brought in by police or EMS for "running," whether that's into traffic or into a body of water or out of a window, one of my top differentials is acute psychosis.

Thank you for explaining how she was possibly functioning at the time. I feel nothing but compassion for all, extending even to Lindsey herself. Based on what I've read from those who knew her well, she was an amazing Mom who was in crisis.

 

[fred&edna]

I've likely missed the info somewhere on the thread... where was the husband/father when this occurred? Was he working and Lindsay called him to come home, or do we know?

 

[Erutan]

True but in this case the husband was trying to supervise her and the children. It seems he really cared. AY's husband did litte else with the exception of continueing to impregnate his mentally ill wife. JMO of course.

That is true !!
For his help alone, I feel bad that one moment of being away to get their meal (?) ended like this.

 

[fred&edna]

That is true !!
For his help alone, I feel bad that one moment of being away to get their meal (?) ended like this.

Ahhh... thank you for the info!

 

[Erutan]

Wondering what will happen now ?
Will she be convicted or will she be committed to a mental health facility ?
So sorry for the husband as he's essentially lost his entire family.

 

[nightowl1975]

True but in this case the husband was trying to help her and the children. It seems he really cared. AY's husband did litte else with the exception of continueing to impregnate his mentally ill wife. JMO of course.

In a way, it almost makes this more tragic in my mind than the AY case. She was receiving intense therapy/intervention, more than I’ve ever heard of anyone getting in the post partum period. And yet it still wasn’t enough.

For those out there making such judgmental comments about her husband leaving her with the kids, I have to wonder… when was he supposed to sleep? If she wasn’t safe for 25 minutes with the kids alone, it wasn’t safe for him to sleep ever bc she could easily wake in the middle of the night and kill their children and herself.

Obviously hindsight is 20/20, but she needed 24/7 supervision. That’s not something that’s going to happen here in the US for any length of time if you’re counting on insurance to pay for it. My impression is she received inpatient treatment for quite some time (in the insurance world, a week inpatient for psych issues is a long time, and IMO she was inpatient significantly longer than a week). Then to be involved in a 5 day a week intensive outpatient day program tells me that she was in very bad shape mentally. Ordinary postpartum depression, even when severe, isn’t typically treated this way.

My heart breaks for all of them.

 

[LaborDayRN]

No, it wasn't. Mentally ill people who are more likely to be the VICTIMS of crime than perpetrators. Those of us who are not mentally ill should be thanking whatever god, faith, or whatever we believe in because it could just as easily have been us or our loved ones who suffered from these afflictions and we/they shouldn't have their civil rights stripped from them due society's ignorance of their illness.

IMO there are two sides to this. It's not an all or nothing situation in my eyes.
Many mentally ill live on the streets. They are hungry, have little to no medical care and are exposed to a great deal of violence. I believe the humain thing to do for these people may be a period (not a lifetime) of institutional care. Perhaps only long enough to get them a diagnosis, make sure the treatment is effective and that they will adhere to it, finding them housing and a job if possible. JMO
And absolutely YES. Those of us who do not walk in their shoes should be thankful every single day!!

 

[nightowl1975]

Wondering what will happen now ?
Will she be convicted or will she be committed to a mental health facility ?
So sorry for the husband as he's essentially lost his entire family.

Andrea Yates was ultimately found not guilty by reason of insanity and sentenced to a mental health facility where she remains today. She annually declines the option to petition for release. I imagine a similar outcome with Lindsay.

 

[CrimeSlog]

When you're psychotic, you're not able to reason. You lose the ability to have coherent thoughts or plan things out. It doesn't surprise me that she attempted suicide by jumping out of a second story window. She likely wasn't able to make the conclusion that she wouldn't die. Sometimes, people in psychosis are so frightened and paranoid, they just run. When I'm treating patients in the emergency room, anytime someone is brought in by police or EMS for "running," whether that's into traffic or into a body of water or out of a window, one of my top differentials is acute psychosis.

Thank you so much for the professional insight! That makes sense that she wouldn't be able to reason and make the appropriate conclusion while in psychosis.

 

[BeginnerSleuther]

IMO there are two sides to this. It's not an all or nothing situation in my eyes.
Many mentally ill live on the streets. They are hungry, have little to no medical care and are exposed to a great deal of violence. I believe the humain thing to do for these people may be a period (not a lifetime) of institutional care. Perhaps only long enough to get them a diagnosis, make sure the treatment is effective and that they will adhere to it, finding them housing and a job if possible. JMO
And absolutely YES. Those of us who do not walk in their shoes should be thankful every single day!!

That isn't what institutionalization was. It wasn't a humane act in hopes of sheltering the mentally ill. It was rounding them up and keeping them hospitalized against their will so society didn't have to deal with them. What you're talking about is different from what I was saying in response to the other poster who didn't agree with deinstitutionalization.

 

[Zella]

I've likely missed the info somewhere on the thread... where was the husband/father when this occurred? Was he working and Lindsay called him to come home, or do we know?

The news reports have said that he'd been working from home to be with her and help keep an eye on things, but this happened when he was gone for about 25 minutes to get takeout. Apparently, when he left everything seemed fine. I've wondered if she is the one who requested the takeout rather than delivery (I'm not entirely sure what they'd been doing for meals once she came home from the hospital), but that's never been clarified. He may have thought she was improving and that it would be okay to do a quick errand outside the home. I'm sure he'll be haunted by what-ifs for the rest of his life, unfortunately.

 

[fred&edna]

The news reports have said that he'd been working from home to be with her and help keep an eye on things, but this happened when he was gone for about 25 minutes to get takeout. Apparently, when he left everything seemed fine. I've wondered if she is the one who requested the takeout rather than delivery (I'm not entirely sure what they'd been doing for meals once she came home from the hospital), but that's never been clarified. He may have thought she was improving and that it would be okay to do a quick errand outside the home. I'm sure he'll be haunted by what-ifs for the rest of his life, unfortunately.

Thank you for additional info.

 

[Ksprincess2]

Absolutely heartbreaking! A woman who went to my church killed her two children while suffering from post partum psychosis. She had been hospitalized three times since her 2nd child's birth for it but was discharged again a few days before she killed them even though a psychiatrist said she was still actively psychotic. I believe her husband sued the psychiatrist who released her. She was charged but found not guilty and spent some time in the state mental hospital. Her husband stuck by her and she now advocates for better mental health care for postpartum women.

 

[LaborDayRN]

That isn't what institutionalization was. It wasn't a humane act in hopes of sheltering the mentally ill. It was rounding them up and keeping them hospitalized against their will so society didn't have to deal with them. What you're talking about is different from what I was saying in response to the other poster who didn't agree with deinstitutionalization.

I do understand how it used to be. (I'm old lol). I'm afraid we are veering off topic so I will end it here.

 

[DS2021]

I feel bad for  everyone in this situation. She was in treatment working on getting better. I truly believe she did her best to avoid this, and so did her husband. I would imagine her symptoms would have to be pretty severe for her to have been in an intensive, 5 day a week program. Its hard for me to be angry with her when I personally doubt she was mentally based in reality at all when she did what she did.

As of right now, my hope is that prosecutors push. for a long term psychiatric stay instead of jail.

Ofc this is all MOO. I have no training in mental health care.

 

[Howl]

Did you mean to type NOT guilty by reason of insanity? Because that would make more sense.

Thank you for catching that and yes, I did mean NOT guilty. I thought I had edited to correct that!

Googling around, I came across the UK's NHS web page for PPS. What struck me in their discussion is that the onset of PPS can be sudden. Meaning it can be full blown before those around the new mom are really aware of what is going on. Not the case here, since the mom was receiving psychiatric care, but important to know in general.

 

[arielilane]

I've likely missed the info somewhere on the thread... where was the husband/father when this occurred? Was he working and Lindsay called him to come home, or do we know?

"Her husband Patrick, who worked from home had gone out to get a take-out order," as per reports.

Lindsay Clancy: Duxbury mom strangled children when husband popped out for 25 MINUTES to get food

Lindsay Clancy's friend revealed that 'her husband was working from home instead of going in to work to support her daily as she went for therapy'

meaww.com

 

[nhmemorymaker]

Law to the side, I’m an American mother of three, and a reasonably educated non-mental health professional, and I look at this case and I see a tragic outcome of severe postpartum depression into psychosis. And I see a family that had means and access to care, and was getting care, and it wasn’t enough in retrospect, but no one had a crystal ball.
Lindsay Clancy and her husband and family strike me very much as people I would’ve met in my normal course of professional business, and would have respected and felt commonality with as a similarly-aged family with similar lives - and would’ve liked.
I feel no impetus to thrash her or spend the money of the taxpayers of Massachusetts prosecuting her or even convicting her, honestly. When and if she is conscious and effectively treated, she will be her own punisher, far more than any sentence society could render. I believe MOO that she will have permanent physical disabilities, but that isn’t even close to what I’m fundamentally saying, which is: once the meds and counseling work - she will convict herself 100x over. Whatever life she has left will metaphorically be spent in Dante’s Purgatorio, and her husband will convict himself too, forever, in a different way.
Genuinely believe, as an amateur student of this story - and not a professional or an actively involved person - MOO - that this is a woman who loved her kids and her family for a long time and went into mental health crisis.

The circumstances are not similar, but as I think about Patrick Clancy and what’s ahead for him, my mind went to William Petit less than a hundred miles south in Connecticut. And I hope what happens for PC is what WP was able to get to, in finding a new way to be and survive, respecting that nothing will ever be normal for either again. William Petit - Wikipedia

I feel most of us are of similar opinion. There really is nothing to thrash. She is, and forever will suffer with her illness and its aftermath.

I will guess that Mr. Pettit will reach out to this husband.
I remember another Massachusetts case that goes back... probably 30 years where the same scenario played out with a wife and children being killed in a home invasion..

Mr. Clancy will never ever get his own life back. But, in time, I feel professionals will make sure he has a support system set up to help.

 

[KMouse]

I think people are treating it a little differently since they were her own kids and she tried to kill herself too. If she survives she's going to have to live with what she did to her own children and her own family for the rest of her life. That's more punishment IMO than most offenders get since they hurt and kill other people's kids, not their own.

But I did pause to think how we've seen male family annihilators, like the recent one in Utah, and we don't stop to ask if there's mental illness there. We just assume jealousy, evil, rage. Is it harder for us to see that in women? JMO and just asking questions.

Good point. If this were a person who was schizophrenic or was in drug psychosis would it be looked at differently? Was she culpable or non-culpable? Why did she wait until she was alone with the kids. How was she in the minutes before the husband left to get food?