MA - Lindsay Clancy, Strangled 3 Children in Murder/Suicide Attempt, Duxbury, Jan 2023

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nightowl1975 said:
In a way, it almost makes this more tragic in my mind than the AY case. She was receiving intense therapy/intervention, more than I’ve ever heard of anyone getting in the post partum period. And yet it still wasn’t enough.

For those out there making such judgmental comments about her husband leaving her with the kids, I have to wonder… when was he supposed to sleep? If she wasn’t safe for 25 minutes with the kids alone, it wasn’t safe for him to sleep ever bc she could easily wake in the middle of the night and kill their children and herself.

Obviously hindsight is 20/20, but she needed 24/7 supervision. That’s not something that’s going to happen here in the US for any length of time if you’re counting on insurance to pay for it. My impression is she received inpatient treatment for quite some time (in the insurance world, a week inpatient for psych issues is a long time, and IMO she was inpatient significantly longer than a week). Then to be involved in a 5 day a week intensive outpatient day program tells me that she was in very bad shape mentally. Ordinary postpartum depression, even when severe, isn’t typically treated this way.

My heart breaks for all of them.
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Completely agree. I don’t think most people realize that being inpatient and then being enrolled in a five day week outpatient program is not very common and there had to have been a considerable safety concerns for insurance to approve that.

She was doing everything she was supposed to.
 
Howl said:
Thank you for catching that and yes, I did mean NOT guilty. I thought I had edited to correct that!

Googling around, I came across the UK's NHS web page for PPS. What struck me in their discussion is that the onset of PPS can be sudden. Meaning it can be full blown before those around the new mom are really aware of what is going on. Not the case here, since the mom was receiving psychiatric care, but important to know in general.
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And just to add: the “new” in “new mom” doesn’t mean that PPS

<modsnip - quoted post and response was removed>

Generally: Postpartum psychosis
 
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Knox said:
Ironically, Mass General has a Postpartum Psychosis Project.
www.mghp3.org

MGH Postpartum Psychosis Project (MGHP3)

The Massachusetts General Hospital Postpartum Psychosis Project includes a research study and supportive resources for women and families affected by postpartum psychosis.
www.mghp3.org www.mghp3.org
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Maybe not ironic. I know people higher up the thread have been commenting how unusual the amount of inpatient/outpatient support she was getting was. Perhaps that level of support was available because there were local projects and programs investigating PP.
 
Erutan said:
Wondering what will happen now ?
Will she be convicted or will she be committed to a mental health facility ?
So sorry for the husband as he's essentially lost his entire family.
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All IMHO

Maybe (and God willing) this is the case that will change the way we handle these tragedies. “We“ as in the US.

Hopefully we will take Britain’s Infanticide Act of 1938 into account and enact a similar law as many civilized countries have.

posting an article from 2020 that I find enlightening

www.motherjones.com

She killed her children in a postpartum psychotic episode. Does she belong in prison?

"It can happen to anybody. I could be your sister, or your daughter, or your wife."
www.motherjones.com www.motherjones.com

interesting takeaway from this article “more than 100 women are currently in prison in California for killing their children” 40% of those were under 1 year old and 70% of these women are serving a life sentence

Other civilized countries don’t look at these unbelievable occurrences with severely mentally ill mothers as criminal but rather as horribly tragic

I think Lindsay had a horrific psychotic break. I do not believe she will be found criminally guilty- especially since she is in Massachusetts.

The good people of Massachusetts (and others) have already contributed over $565k to her husband through “Go Fund Me” in just a few days. The testimony from those who know Lindsay and Patrick is heartwarming. Fellow nurses especially have contributed- because they know this is not due to criminality but rather due to illness.

I think Lindsay will be sent to a psychiatric facility, her husband will divorce her/ annul his marriage and be able to “start over” as best he can and Lindsay will be subject to unbearable guilt and depression for the rest of her days when she recovers from her mental break and is conscious of what she has done.

God bless Lindsay and God bless her family and friends.
God bless her three innocent angels.
What a unbelievable tragedy.
Praying that one day she can forgive herself and find some joy. Praying that she will be allowed to advocate for others who have postpartum psychosis.

This story makes me so very sad for all involved.
 
IMHO this is beyond heartbreaking! PPD is a tragedy in itself. Sadly, people going through those difficult times may hide it well. Families and work associates might not notice a difference in behavior until it is too late. The other tragedy is the loss of innocent children. I'm not sure if because the media information is quick or if there is actually an increase in family murder suicides. If she improves mentally, she will have to live with this dark and sad act.
 
BeachMom said:
Completely agree. I don’t think most people realize that being inpatient and then being enrolled in a five day week outpatient program is not very common and there had to have been a considerable safety concerns for insurance to approve that.

She was doing everything she was supposed to.
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Agreed. An inpatient program would likely be for patients who are a safety concern for themselves and/or others. She may have been on anti-psychotic meds and those need to be taken properly and sometimes the meds need to be changed as they aren't working the way they should.
I am hoping there is an inquest into this if that is such a thing in that state. What could have been done better and look at all facets of this tragedy so that maybe the next one can be prevented.
 
nhmemorymaker said:
I feel most of us are of similar opinion. There really is nothing to thrash. She is, and forever will suffer with her illness and its aftermath.

I will guess that Mr. Pettit will reach out to this husband.
I remember another Massachusetts case that goes back... probably 30 years where the same scenario played out with a wife and children being killed in a home invasion..

Mr. Clancy will never ever get his own life back. But, in time, I feel professionals will make sure he has a support system set up to help.
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Agree wholeheartedly and I also think that a call from William Petit might be the most stabilizing thing that we can hope will happen, or has happened, to Patrick Clancy.
 
caradana said:
Agree wholeheartedly and I also think that a call from William Petit might be the most stabilizing thing that we can hope will happen, or has happened, to Patrick Clancy.
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I'm honestly not sure how comparable Petit's experience is, TBH. Petit's family was murdered by intruders, not from within the home by another beloved member of the family, and I think both situations engender their own very different types of pain. Petit knows what it's like to lose his family but not what it's like to lose them by his own wife's hand. MOO
 
Zella said:
I'm honestly not sure how comparable Petit's experience is, TBH. Petit's family was murdered by intruders, not from within the home by another beloved member of the family, and I think both situations engender their own very different types of pain. Petit knows what it's like to lose his family but not what it's like to lose them by his own wife's hand. MOO
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All of his children dead, horribly dead, in a situation where he wonders daily if he could’ve or should’ve done anything differently. The circumstances mean less than the outcome.
 
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fred&edna said:
I believe there are some risk factors (personal relationship, support) associated with postpartum depression. I don't know if these would be the same for postpartum psychosis, but I think it's worth consideration for further info.

ETA: I was just skimming this (but I'm not a health care professional).

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PPD can be influenced by outside factors like you stated. But PPS is purely biological, per evidence based science. That said, we are always learning new things about the human body and human condition. PPD and PPS are relatively new on the radar (as is mental health in general) so there’s lots of room for new discoveries. After all, this is why a physician “practices” medicine . Hehe, sorry doc (can’t recall your screen name at the moment, on phone so can’t easily look), had to say it!

All kidding aside (and I really shouldn’t be kidding at all here), this is a tragic and heartbreaking event. I believe they were absolutely doing everything they could. But I am curious why she was left alone with the kids at all. Someone mentioned earlier how he (dad) had to sleep sometime, so what then? That’s an excellent point. So is it inpatient vs. at home with family? Obviously, if doing harm to her children was a known risk, someone somewhere somehow would’ve made sure she stayed inpatient. Yet I blame no one, not even her. She broke and did something that was completely out of control as far as we know. I pray for peace, healing and forgiveness for everyone whose lives this family has touched; most of all dad, immediate family and Lindsay.

Edited to add: one thought that keeps repeating itself in my mind is that I hope and pray these kids had no idea what was happening to them or each other. I hope their last thoughts weren’t of their mommy hurting them, and I hope they didn’t die watching their mommy hurt their siblings. It’s just so incredibly sad.

Does Massachusetts have anything like a CA 5150 or FL Baker Act where someone can be involuntarily placed on a psych hold if they are believed to be a danger to others or themselves?
 
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Litig8r said:
But I am curious why she was left alone with the kids at all.
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I've been wondering this too. My guess is she must have seemed to have been improving for him to feel safe enough to leave her home alone with the kids. But, of course, just because someone seems to be improving is no indication they actually are. People who are planning to commit suicide often do seem to "improve" once they've made up their mind to go through with it.

We have a situation ongoing in my extended family where a young mother with 2 small children was having a difficult time after a recent miscarriage, and her husband is currently spending time home with her and her mother-in-law has traveled to be with them for extra support after she was showing some worrying mental health symptoms. That's all great, and I am glad they are taking it seriously, but I'd been wondering what they were going to do when Ma had to go home and he had to go back to work. Of course, as this terrible tragedy shows, it doesn't even have to be after everyone has gone back to their normal routines for something to happen. :(
 
Litig8r said:
PPD can be influenced by outside factors like you stated. But PPS is purely biological, per evidence based science. That said, we are always learning new things about the human body and human condition. PPD and PPS are relatively new on the radar (as is mental health in general) so there’s lots of room for new discoveries. After all, this is why a physician “practices” medicine . Hehe, sorry doc (can’t recall your screen name at the moment, on phone so can’t easily look), had to say it!

All kidding aside (and I really shouldn’t be kidding at all here), this is a tragic and heartbreaking event. I believe they were absolutely doing everything they could. But I am curious why she was left alone with the kids at all. Someone mentioned earlier how he (dad) had to sleep sometime, so what then? That’s an excellent point. So is it inpatient vs. at home with family? Obviously, if doing harm to her children was a known risk, someone somewhere somehow would’ve made sure she stayed inpatient. Yet I blame no one, not even her. She broke and did something that was completely out of control as far as we know. I pray for peace, healing and forgiveness for everyone whose lives this family has touched; most of all dad, immediate family and Lindsay.
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Are we discussing different conditions? I am referencing PPD and PPP. You have twice mentioned PPS but I have no idea what that might be. I don't know all the medical acronyms. And, I'm not sure what you might consider "relatively new on the radar". The report I linked had footnote research from 1990-2000 so PPP and PPD were well-known even before that time.

I agree this is so incredibly tragic and heartbreaking.
 
fred&edna said:
Are we discussing different conditions? I am referencing PPD and PPP. You have twice mentioned PPS but I have no idea what that might be. I don't know all the medical acronyms. And, I'm not sure what you might consider "relatively new on the radar". The report I linked had footnote research from 1990-2000 so PPP and PPD were well-known even before that time.

I agree this is so incredibly tragic and heartbreaking.
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PPD: Postpartum depression
PPS/PPP: Postpartum psychosis. Both abbreviations are used.

The first FDA approved treatment for postpartum depression just came out in 2019. 1990-2000 is “relatively new” i.e. recent, as compared to other known medical conditions. Mental health has not gotten the attention it’s deserved until recent years; “recent” being subjective, but within the last 30’ish years is what I’m referring to. Many people still don’t recognize mental health issues as legit medical issues.

PPD and PPS are not one and the same. Not all PPD is also PPS.
 
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