Madeleine McCann: German prisoner identified as suspect - #15

[Dlk79]

"There was confusion this morning when Reuters reported the sex offender could be freed within days because the European arrest warrant issued cited the drugs conviction but not the rape charge"

There certainly was.

https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/12246614/madeleine-mccann-live-news-latest-uk-christian-b/

Well, at least they had the decency this time to clear up the reason there were directly contradicting reports.

 

[Chiatos]

I thought about CB, MM and the darknet again.

We are talking about the year 2006/2007, during which time CB and MT served an eight month prison sentence in Portugal. After their release from prison their ways separated. MT set off for Spain; CB continued to stray through South Portugal.

A few weeks after MM's disappearance - at the end of May or beginning of June - CB is said to have appeared in Spain with a large mobile home at MT's former place of residence. This information is based on statements by MT.

After that they seem to have had no further contact worth mentioning.


MT is the one who claimed that CB had spent a lot of time in darkweb. So this would have to have been at the beginning of 2006 or during the short visit to Spain in 2007. In prison the two of them will hardly have been online all the time.

What content did darknet have to offer in those years? Sure, it's been around a lot longer than that, and from around 2005 onward, there were more and more normal middle-class people who used Tor to access the Internet to escape government surveillance and data storage. But did darknet at that time already offer easy to reach platforms where people could exchange ideas about the abuse of small children? Quasi an everyday communication and file sharing?

I'm sceptical about this, but would be happy if someone here in the forum knows more and can enlighten me.

Certain is that the instant messaging service "Telegram", which is used by dubious circles for their communication in "secret chats", has only existed since 2013.

So I think it will be difficult to find anything about MM on the websites and in the chats of pedophiles. At best, CB might have put the stuff on the net later - in the 2010s. But these are vague hypotheses.

What makes my assumption - CB does not exchange his pictures and films - is the statement of the profiler Mark Hoffmann. Recently he explained the behaviour of some sex offenders (with reference to CB) on German television as follows: There are offenders who film their deeds exclusively for themselves and not to share these images with others. This kind of sexual obsession is also not based on obtaining satisfaction during the act. It is only when they watch the filmed action later that they get the sexual satisfaction they long for.

I conclude from this, especially in view of the rape of the 72-year-old woman, during which the camera was also constantly running, that CB belongs to exactly this group. This would mean that he sees the footage as a "holy prey, a trophy" which he would never give away.

A quick word about MT. Who is this guy? He's being referred to in the media as a hippie. In 2007 the time of the hippies was long gone, a few so-called old hippies were still hanging around here and there. But MT does not belong to this age group, he is too young for that. And besides, these old hippies may smoke pot here and there, but they are not criminals per se.

MT is cut from a different cloth. For me he is a petty criminal loser. And to such a lame duck suddenly - by the time the world has its eyes on CB and MM - the English tabloid press comes and pulls him by his few remaining dreadlocks from the Corona swamp of isolation.

This was the opportunity to stand at the front line, grinning with a fat headline and colour photo from the newspaper pages. Probably at that moment his imagination took him on a roller coaster and his memory became more and more colourful.

My personal conclusion: The witness is quite unreliable.

Everything you can believe him: He and CB stole diesel fuel together. He and CB were in jail together. CB came to him in May or June 2007 for a few days in Spain with his big camper.

What I doubt about his statements to the press: He brought darknet into play because the headlines of those days about the German paedo ring had inspired him to do so. Sell girls to Morocco? This was also in the press reports about CB and MM before MT was mentioned.

I think he has good stuff to smoke. With it he should become happy and spread his colourful stories within his close friends.

The dark web exists for some time. TOR wad launched in 2002 whilst the dark web was already existing.
A huge paedo network operating on the internet in Belgium was discovered in the nineties. Even babies were being abused and I remember that people were just flabergasted when it was announced in the news in NL.
Criminals/child rapists are very resourceful and find their way easily in internet and on the dark web.

As for the hippies; there is no age bound to being a hippie. Barao Sao Joao is where hippies like to gather and they're of all ages. You can see it on youtube. CB went there regularly. With a male friend who looked like him. Who was this friend? Not MT for he has black hair and dark eyes.

 

[Miss_Paula]

Do you think if the German police found hard forensic evidence of MMs death, let's say a blood trace that somehow could not be tied to CB, that they would conceal this?
(...)
This is why I think there is no photo - rather there is a piece of evidence that makes police believe he is guilty - say more likely guilty then not but not BARD. And if he is guilty, the only logical inference is she is dead.

Mr. Jitty, a quick answer to your post from yesterday,

I don't think the German police have enough hard forensic evidence. If they did, they would have told us long ago and charged CB.

If they would have a photo, then it might be something that doesn't show any hard evidence. But I think this is rather unlikely with CB's way of filming. Obviously he photographs his victims and himself recognisably.

I rather think they might have found something very incriminating in connection with the VW Camper. Otherwise I could not explain why they insist so much on it. Maybe they found some hair shreds after years, but that only allows a vague attribution. You know it's hard to identify and match DNA from a hair without a follicle.

As scatterbrained as some village policemen in Germany are: Since 2017 at the latest, the best people from the highest authorities have been working on this case. And they are aware of the importance of the MM case. But everything is done very, very thoroughly.

btw: in connection with the paedophile ring and the discovery of vast amounts of child pornographic photos and films, the police commissioners needed hundreds of officers from other German federal states. They in turn had to be assisted by psychologists, because otherwise they could not bear to watch and evaluate these terrible films for days. All this has been going on for weeks and will continue for weeks to come. Every day counts to save more children - the police know this and are doing more than they can at the moment.

It is all just horrible.

 

[Miss_Paula]

The dark web exists for some time. TOR wad launched in 2002 whilst the dark web was already existing.
A huge paedo network operating on the internet in Belgium was discovered in the nineties. Even babies were being abused and I remember that people were just flabergasted when it was announced in the news in NL.
Criminals/child rapists are very resourceful and find their way easily in internet and on the dark web.

As for the hippies; there is no age bound to being a hippie. Barao Sao Joao is where hippies like to gather and they're of all ages. You can see it on youtube. CB went there regularly. With a male friend who looked like him. Who was this friend? Not MT for he has black hair and dark eyes.

Thanks, I learn a lot here.

 

[Dlk79]

Mr. Jitty, a quick answer to your post from yesterday,

I don't think the German police have enough hard forensic evidence. If they did, they would have told us long ago and charged CB.

If they would have a photo, then it might be something that doesn't show any hard evidence. But I think this is rather unlikely with CB's way of filming. Obviously he photographs his victims and himself recognisably.

I rather think they might have found something very incriminating in connection with the VW Camper. Otherwise I could not explain why they insist so much on it. Maybe they found some hair shreds after years, but that only allows a vague attribution. You know it's hard to identify and match DNA from a hair without a follicle.

As scatterbrained as some village policemen in Germany are: Since 2017 at the latest, the best people from the highest authorities have been working on this case. And they are aware of the importance of the MM case. But everything is done very, very thoroughly.

btw: in connection with the paedophile ring and the discovery of vast amounts of child pornographic photos and films, the police commissioners needed hundreds of officers from other German federal states. They in turn had to be assisted by psychologists, because otherwise they could not bear to watch and evaluate these terrible films for days. All this has been going on for weeks and will continue for weeks to come. Every day counts to save more children - the police know this and are doing more than they can at the moment.

It is all just horrible.

Agree with most of what you say there except that I don't think it can be said to be certain he always photographs himself and the victims recognisably.

It was acknowledged that videos of CB were found on the USB files, but the impression given was that these did not include victims (unless you count the tow bar).

The rape of the 72yr old, he was heavily concealed. I know it was mentioned by one of the friends that he removed his mask on one video viewed but I don't think it necessarily means that he would have automatically revealed himself on a video involving MM (if there is one).

JMO but don't think we can discount evidence of a video on that basis is all. The fact HCW continually refuses to confirm or deny if they have photographs/video of MM is something I find a little odd if they don't have it.

 

[Miss_Paula]

Tor was around back then so it is possible CB used it, but the term Dark Web is actually pretty abstract. It just refers to sections of the internet related to illegal activity. Though most of that is now confined to Tor onion sites, there were many child abuse websites etc around before Tor, hidden on the regular web and videos downloaded via P2P sharing. MT may have just been referring to the fact that he knew CB was involved in this. The skype transcript in 2013 is proof that CB was in contact with other paedophiles on line, how did he know them? I don't see it as much of a stretch that he was involved in this dark area of the web for quite some time.

I'm not sure what to make of MT's comments altogether. I think there is some elements of truth in what he speaks of but I get the feeling there is a lot more he knows that he is keeping quiet about in order to not implicate himself. His comments about how he felt when he learned about the rape video seem quite false to me. He claimed to be disgusted by it, yet he returns to Portugal to visit CB when he had every opportunity to cut contact with him.

In terms of the 'hippy' thing, I think it's a matter of definition. He is a pothead and likes to live an alternative lifestyle, some may call that a hippy. He was certainly a criminal too though.

I'm not sure whether CB used the darkweb to store videos. The fact he hid his USB stash would lead me to think not, since he could have instead destroyed them if he had them hidden online somewhere. But in the 2017 bar confession, it is said he showed the rape video to a friend on his phone. Given that he'd gone to the lengths to hide the material following the heat on him, would be remarkably brazen to then have the videos saved on his personal phone knowing he could be arrested again. Would have made more sense that he accessed the video via Tor on his phone. Also, where did the video come from? The original was alleged to have been destroyed and his USB stash confiscated. He must have had it backed up somewhere though if that's the case.

Everything you write explains a lot. Thank you very much.

But I have one question: the video he showed a friend in the pub on his mobile phone is not, as far as I know, the video of the 2005 rape in PdL? Or am I getting something confused.

That wouldn't be surprising, given his criminal record.

Regardless, he probably retrieved it online and did not save it on his device.

On the other hand, if you look at his FB profile, he is not exactly an IT genius.

 

[Pixie Child]

Could Police trace any of his dark web activity from his IP address?

 

[Dlk79]

Everything you write explains a lot. Thank you very much.

But I have one question: the video he showed a friend in the pub on his mobile phone is not, as far as I know, the video of the 2005 rape in PdL? Or am I getting something confused.

That wouldn't be surprising, given his criminal record.

Regardless, he probably retrieved it online and did not save it on his device.

On the other hand, if you look at his FB profile, he is not exactly an IT genius.

I don't think it can be said 100% certain if the rape he showed on his phone was the 72-year-old given other inaccuracies in the Press but most of the UK media certainly reported that it was. Some examples:

He was reportedly chatting to the friend in Germany when a TV report came on about the tenth anniversary of the girl's disappearance and he suggested he knew what had happened to her.

German sources claim he boasted he had "snatched her" but didn’t say he had killed her.

Christian B then allegedly showed a video of himself raping a 72-year-old tourist in Portugal in 2005, which he was later convicted and jailed for eight years over.

Sky News reported: "He was in a bar in Germany with another man, around the tenth anniversary of Madeleine's disappearance. A report came on the TV and he said something to suggest that he knew what happened.

"He also allegedly showed a video of himself raping a woman. Video of the rape led to an investigation that last year meant he was convicted of the rape of a tourist on the Algarve in around 2005.

Maddie McCann paedo suspect 'told pal in bar he snatched her on 10th anniversary of disappearance'

The suspect, a 43-year-old German named by prosecutors as Christian B, allegedly said something to suggest he was responsible for her going missing.

Later, he showed his companion a video of himself raping an elderly woman, an American tourist, in Portugal in 2005.

Madeleine McCann: Suspect is named Christian B - What we know about jailed German

Madeleine McCann suspect 'told pal he'd snatched her while watching TV in a pub'

In the recent ITV documentary, it was also said that the 72-year-old rape conviction was as a direct result of the MM investigation. Whether that was initiated because of the phone video viewed or because of something else that was uncovered during the investigation I can't be sure.

 

[Betty_Boop88]

JMO but don't think we can discount evidence of a video on that basis is all. The fact HCW continually refuses to confirm or deny if they have photographs/video of MM is something I find a little odd if they don't have it.

To tie in with this a bit, there’s something that’s never sat right with me with the “overheard bar confession” in 2017. It doesn’t make sense to say “I know all about what happened to MM. I snatched her,” then show a video of himself raping an older woman. That isn’t natural progression of a conversation (as completely unnatural as that conversation was). IMO, there was more to the conversation that we, rightly, haven’t been told about. Coupled with HCW’s refusal to outright deny their existence, I’m convinced one or more pics/videos exist and he showed them that night, then moved on to showing the rape video.

 

[Dlk79]

@Pixie Child The whole purpose of using Tor (to access the dark web) is that it hides your IP address, it was designed by the US government for that exact purpose so that it's users cannot be identified.

That's why it is so difficult for authorities to shut these illegal activities down and track down the users.

Just to be clear, Tor is not solely used for the purpose of illegal activity, that only makes up a small fraction of it's use. Primarily it used by people who require anonymity for other purposes, mostly for political or high level security (eg military, government, police etc) reasons.

 

[MENDEL]

From Tor's site it seems Tor main usage is to protect privacy, something not that unfounded as we're stalked all the time by giants no need to name who use data as they please to make money (that could be called Counter-Tor or perhaps White web).

I don't use that but use Duckduckgo a lot just for the sake of dismissing Google.

The Tor Project | Privacy & Freedom Online

 

[tedtink]

There is confusion over the rape video's that's for sure.

MT says in an "exclusive" interview with the DT of the house in PDL

"It is also where a camcorder was discovered that allegedly had footage of Brückner raping a 72-year-old tourist at a luxury villa in 2005. The video was destroyed, but the testimony of the two men who saw it helped convict Bruckner of the crime last year.

“That’s how I found out he was a sick b******.

“It was of this elderly lady who was chained to a wooden post and she was being beaten and raped."


The wooden post quote sounds like the house at PDL and not the house of the American lady unless she was tied to a beam at some stage too?

Interview: Christian Brückner was my best friend - I'm sure he took Madeleine McCann

 

[Dlk79]

There is confusion over the rape video's that's for sure.

MT says in an "exclusive" interview with the DT of the house in PDL

"It is also where a camcorder was discovered that allegedly had footage of Brückner raping a 72-year-old tourist at a luxury villa in 2005. The video was destroyed, but the testimony of the two men who saw it helped convict Bruckner of the crime last year.

“That’s how I found out he was a sick b******.

“It was of this elderly lady who was chained to a wooden post and she was being beaten and raped."


The wooden post quote sounds like the house at PDL and not the house of the American lady unless she was tied to a beam at some stage too?

Interview: Christian Brückner was my best friend - I'm sure he took Madeleine McCann

Can't read the article as it's behind a paywall but in other versions of this story, it was reported to be the young german-speaking girl who was tethered to the wooden post.

 

[Miss_Paula]

Agree with most of what you say there except that I don't think it can be said to be certain he always photographs himself and the victims recognisably.

It was acknowledged that videos of CB were found on the USB files, but the impression given was that these did not include victims (unless you count the tow bar).

The rape of the 72yr old, he was heavily concealed. I know it was mentioned by one of the friends that he removed his mask on one video viewed but I don't think it necessarily means that he would have automatically revealed himself on a video involving MM (if there is one).

JMO but don't think we can discount evidence of a video on that basis is all. The fact HCW continually refuses to confirm or deny if they have photographs/video of MM is something I find a little odd if they don't have it.

For me, the question of what evidence the police actually have is as gruelling as it is for many. But I can well understand why they do not tell it first to us private snoopers, then to the tabloid press and finally to the public prosecutor to press charges. We have to wait.

I agree with you that CB made himself unrecognisable on the videos. We know about the mask and we know that a lot of wigs were found in the house in PdL by the neighbour. It's possible he had them for the same purpose.

But what I meant with regard to the photos and videos: In general in pedophile circles there are also some in which only excerpts can be seen (the genitals, the sexual act as such). I am not an expert there, but refer to statements of the police about their difficulties in identifying the offenders.

And this was not the case in the film with the poor American woman. It was shot in full length. And also Hazel B. (the case has not yet been proven) reports that the perpetrator set up a camera in the room before he started the actual act.

And to HCW's technique of conversation: I read between the lines (better listen between the sounds) and there I can say quite clearly: If they had nothing, he would say: "No". But since he says: "I can't give any information about that at the moment", that for me is a "Yes".

 

[MENDEL]

There is confusion over the rape video's that's for sure.

MT says in an "exclusive" interview with the DT of the house in PDL

"It is also where a camcorder was discovered that allegedly had footage of Brückner raping a 72-year-old tourist at a luxury villa in 2005. The video was destroyed, but the testimony of the two men who saw it helped convict Bruckner of the crime last year.

“That’s how I found out he was a sick b******.

“It was of this elderly lady who was chained to a wooden post and she was being beaten and raped."


The wooden post quote sounds like the house at PDL and not the house of the American lady unless she was tied to a beam at some stage too?

Interview: Christian Brückner was my best friend - I'm sure he took Madeleine McCann

That's a great point, Ted. What MT tells is something plausible as technologies evolved so much since 2005 that it would be hard to keep a video until 2017 in mobiles. To keep some historic SMS I had in old mobiles I had to take pictures of them for instance. Also, the video wasn't shown in court. So it was kept for 12 years and then wiped out in 2 years (of course he feared a trial and might have erased it, but how many times has the guy been tried before?).

ETA

Just a rhetoric question: he had sensitive files buried in box factory within a pen and used to carry an ultra-sensitive video in his mobile?

 

[Dlk79]

For me, the question of what evidence the police actually have is as gruelling as it is for many. But I can well understand why they do not tell it first to us private snoopers, then to the tabloid press and finally to the public prosecutor to press charges. We have to wait.

I agree with you that CB made himself unrecognisable on the videos. We know about the mask and we know that a lot of wigs were found in the house in PdL by the neighbour. It's possible he had them for the same purpose.

But what I meant with regard to the photos and videos: In general in pedophile circles there are also some in which only excerpts can be seen (the genitals, the sexual act as such). I am not an expert there, but refer to statements of the police about their difficulties in identifying the offenders.

And this was not the case in the film with the poor American woman. It was shot in full length. And also Hazel B. (the case has not yet been proven) reports that the perpetrator set up a camera in the room before he started the actual act.

And to HCW's technique of conversation: I read between the lines (better listen between the sounds) and there I can say quite clearly: If they had nothing, he would say: "No". But since he says: "I can't give any information about that at the moment", that for me is a "Yes".

Agreed. But in both of those rapes, HB and the 72-year-old, the culprit was masked and concealed in garments head to toe. No real way to prove identification for the police based on that video evidence alone. Slight difference to only showing the victim but certainly still doing everything to hide his identity.

 

[MENDEL]

From @Miss_Paula :

And to HCW's technique of conversation: I read between the lines (better listen between the sounds) and there I can say quite clearly: If they had nothing, he would say: "No". But since he says: "I can't give any information about that at the moment", that for me is a "Yes".

Fact is that anyone can use that same argument to finish with a "No".

 

[Dlk79]

From @Miss_Paula :

And to HCW's technique of conversation: I read between the lines (better listen between the sounds) and there I can say quite clearly: If they had nothing, he would say: "No". But since he says: "I can't give any information about that at the moment", that for me is a "Yes".

Fact is that you can use that same argument to finish with a "No".

But that would mean the Prosecutor outright lying to everyone if he said 'No, we don't have a video" when in fact they did. He isn't going to do that.

 

[MENDEL]

But that would mean the Prosecutor outright lying to everyone if he said 'No, we don't have a video" when in fact they did. He isn't going to do that.

I agree, but by saying "I can't give any information about that at the moment" it's impossible to lie. He simply neither wants to say "yes, we do" nor "no, we don't".

But one thing is sure, DLK: CB knows the answer.

 

[MENDEL]

MT bleached his hair so could perhaps be his blonde friend.

MT wouldn't lose such a friendship opportunity.

Bleaching his hair was the least he could do.