Malaysia airlines plane may have crashed 239 people on board #21

[Hatfield]

They definitely used it during a recent crash, can't remember where it was but didn't someone survive the crash but then die because an emergency vehicle ran her over in the foam?

EDIT, just googled and think it was Asiana 214, but I think the foam was used AFTER landing, not before.

Right. The foam was used After that plane wrecked so we know they still have foam available. For that particular crash the reason they did not spray foam before it landed was because they had no idea that plane was going to crash. It was a messup on landing that nobody expected. The foam was applied after the crash.

I cant recall any recent crash landings where foam was applied before the plane came in and they knew the plane was having trouble with its landing gear. Many years ago, it seems it was done more often when a plane was coming in with some kind of trouble.

I remember at least 2 or 3 recent ones where the plane had to land on the regular concrete (tarmac) runway and there was nothing sprayed before they landed. One plane I remember it well because of all the sparks that were flying and the live news was talking about how the paint on the runway could ignite. It was the painted lines they were talking about since paint is flammable.

 

[Hatfield]

IDK but everyone keeps saying oceans can do "funny things."

Can you or someone else verifiy for me that is the Satellite Handshake 7 the Partial Handshake at 8:19?

I believe that's what Mr. Houston said last night.

If that is the Partial Handshake, I have no doubt this the black box. That would be right the location where the plane either ran out of fuel (engines communicated) or had a drastic altitude drop (engines communicated).

Its a good question and I heard them say something about that last partial ping but dont remember exactly what they said. If I had to guess I think they did infer that the last partial ping was close to the area where they are hearing the black box sounds. I am not exactly sure how close though. We need a map that shows the black box sounds and that last partial ping on the same map to be sure.

ETA: I found an article and it basically says what I thought they said last night. They dont say how close though. LOL

"Houston noted that all four of the pings detected in recent days were near a final, partial "handshake" signal revealed earlier in the investigation."

http://www.cbc.ca/news/world/malaysia-airlines-flight-mh370-underwater-pings-relocated-1.2603564

 

[QueenD]

I had forgotten about the 2nd box. Good point that the 2nd box may make it a little more confusing.

Although it seems that they should hear it again in the exact same area if they make a pass where they heard it before. It seems a little strange that they cannot hear it in the exact same spot as the 1st time. Unless maybe they never tried to go back to that very first spot.

Just hope they can narrow it down.

Its a good question and I heard them say something about that last partial ping but dont remember exactly what they said. If I had to guess I think they did infer that the last partial ping was close to the area where they are hearing the black box sounds. I am not exactly sure how close though. We need a map that shows the black box sounds and that last partial ping on the same map to be sure.

I am so confused now. I seen last night on the news briefly about a 2nd black box? I didnt have time to come and read here.

Is there (2) black boxes? Is there a difference between "the pinging of the black box? And "the black box sound"

And one more, if there are 2-black boxes do they both "ping/make noises?
And are they located in the same area of the plane?

 

[Archangel7]

I am so confused now. I seen last night on the news briefly about a 2nd black box? I didnt have time to come and read here.

Is there (2) black boxes? Is there a difference between "the pinging of the black box? And "the black box sound"

And one more, if there are 2-black boxes do they both "ping/make noises?
And are they located in the same area of the plane?

Cockpit voice recorder(CVR) with a underwater locator beacon...ULB
Flight Data Recorder(FDR) with an underwater locator beacon...ULB

They are likely getting some deflection from the silt and the thermocline(temperature gradient), subsea rock formation/trenches, etc. making a precise pinpoint difficult.

 

[Hatfield]

I am so confused now. I seen last night on the news briefly about a 2nd black box? I didnt have time to come and read here.

Is there (2) black boxes? Is there a difference between "the pinging of the black box? And "the black box sound"

And one more, if there are 2-black boxes do they both "ping/make noises?
And are they located in the same area of the plane?

We are all confused so dont feel bad. I think I can help answer most of your questions because this mystery has kept me close to the news and I am learning about all kinds of things I never expected to learn about.

-There are 2 boxes because 1 is the Flight Data Recorder and 1 is the Flight Cockpit Voice recorder. They are both in rear tail of the plane but not exactly together because they truly are separate boxes and bolted in the tail section usually.

-They both have pingers and ping the same sort of frequency and same sound but they are not synced up with each other. So they are truly separate. There is no difference in the sounds they make though. They could be off-sequence or happen to be in sequence or maybe only 1 pings for awhile and then the other one for awhile due to the batteries dying.

-The experts said when the batteries die they usually just quit but there is some confusion and some guests think they could start back up and ping for awhile more and then die again. Over and over until truly no more battery life. Most think if they quit they will not ping ever again.

-This is why it seems confusing why they only hear it for only short periods of time and also why do they hear it in different spots and not the exact same spot the next day. Silt on bottom and salt water and temperature and things like that could be affecting how they hear it which is what they are telling us to explain these types of questions.

 

[QueenD]

We are all confused so dont feel bad. I think I can help answer most of your questions because this mystery has kept me close to the news and I am learning about all kinds of things I never expected to learn about.

-There are 2 boxes because 1 is the Flight Data Recorder and 1 is the Flight Cockpit Voice recorder. They are both in rear tail of the plane but not exactly together because they truly are separate boxes and bolted in the tail section usually.

-They both have pingers and ping the same sort of frequency and same sound but they are not synced up with each other. So they are truly separate. There is no difference in the sounds they make though. They could be off-sequence or happen to be in sequence or maybe only 1 pings for awhile and then the other one for awhile due to the batteries dying.

-The experts said when the batteries die they usually just quit but there is some confusion and some guests think they could start back up and ping for awhile more and then die again. Over and over until truly no more battery life. Most think if they quit they will not ping ever again.

Thanks Hatfield, we should all be flight and aircraft gerus will this is done.

And I bet Martin Salvage will be flying a plane.

 

[Gerontion]

The ping count is confusing, and the graph doesn't help much. I am certainly no math wizard, and I can only come up with 2p+0p+2p=4p. I don't think they can say (although the chances are) that the four acoustic incidents are all from the exact same source. Theoretically there are two potential sources of pings in connection with the aircraft. That is another math problem: are both fading? is one fading? is one (or both) still at full strength? I know it is most likely academic at this point, the major thrust being to get their assets in the water lickity-split and track down whatever is emitting the ping.
"Re-aquired" is an interesting word choice. It seems to me to be the same as "picked up THE scent again". Whereas they may be meaning to say they have "picked up A scent again".
Either way, my confidence in their abilities to get a visual on the source of the signal has been restored.

 

[Hatfield]

The ping count is confusing, and the graph doesn't help much. I am certainly no math wizard, and I can only come up with 2p+0p+2p=4p. I don't think they can say (although the chances are) that the four acoustic incidents are all from the exact same source. Theoretically there are two potential sources of pings in connection with the aircraft. That is another math problem: are both fading? is one fading? is one (or both) still at full strength? I know it is most likely academic at this point, the major thrust being to get their assets in the water lickity-split and track down whatever is emitting the ping.
"Re-aquired" is an interesting word choice. It seems to me to be the same as "picked up THE scent again". Whereas they may be meaning to say they have "picked up A scent again".
Either way, my confidence in their abilities to get a visual on the source of the signal has been restored.

I totally agree and you are so right about the "Re-acquired the scent".

We are on a wild goose hunt. Lets hope the fox gets the goose. LOL

 

[Gerontion]

Cockpit voice recorder(CVR) with a underwater locator beacon...ULB
Flight Data Recorder(FDR) with an underwater locator beacon...ULB

They are likely getting some deflection from the silt and the thermocline(temperature gradient), subsea rock formation/trenches, etc. making a precise pinpoint difficult.

Archangel7, would you happen to know more about the specific batteries? Are we talking a 9v, a coupla D-cells,........what?

Thank you for bringing the thermocline back into the conversation. And thank you for the handy acronym "ULB".

 

[Archangel7]

With the ping being a sound frequency rather than a radio frequency, it would echo and bounce like any sound rather than penetrate like a radio wave.

If true that would seem to complicate matters along with dying batteries and two sources of pings likely.

 

[Archangel7]

Archangel7, would you happen to know more about the specific batteries? Are we talking a 9v, a coupla D-cells,........what?

Thank you for bring the thermocline back into the conversation. And thank you for the handy acronym "ULB".

You're welcome, IIRC, the last one I saw was a 115 volt AC/28 volt DC

ETA.......If you are asking about the pinger only...It is self contained with a lithium battery and I don't know the voltage.

 

[Elley Mae]

I totally agree and you are so right about the "Re-acquired the scent".

We are on a wild goose hunt. Lets hope the fox gets the goose. LOL

I wonder about the ping and whether the terrain, which appears to be very jagged rocky mountainy and dangerous appearance would cause Echo's?

Eta read thought next time and you will see that it was brought up. Thanks Archangel7

 

[Gerontion]

You're welcome, IIRC, the last one I saw was a 115 volt AC/28 volt DC

ETA.......If you are asking about the pinger only...It is self contained with a lithium battery and I don't know the voltage.

Yes, pinger only. Thanks again. Meanwhile I googled "ULB battery". You are correct, it is a lithium battery. I couldn't find the voltage. It has a shelf life of 6yrs and an active life of (minimum) 30days.

 

[Archangel7]

Yes, pinger only. Thanks again. Meanwhile I googled "ULB battery". You are correct, it is a lithium battery. I couldn't find the voltage. It has a shelf life of 6yrs and an active life of (minimum) 30days.

I believe it is 6volts. Teledyne and Datasonics come to mind as the manuf.

 

[CoverMeCagney]

Yes, pinger only. Thanks again. Meanwhile I googled "ULB battery". You are correct, it is a lithium battery. I couldn't find the voltage. It has a shelf life of 6yrs and an active life of (minimum) 30days.

Dammit, there are thousands of spare lithium batteries in the cargo hold...

 

[Gerontion]

One more point of possible interest in connection with the ULB. It is a cylinder, approx 2in by 6in. Roughly the size of a beer can. There is some perspective for ya.

ETA It is the little barrel shaped unit, seen in many pictures, mounted onto the FDR/CVR assemblies.

 

[Gerontion]

Dammit, there are thousands of spare lithium batteries in the cargo hold...

Go figure!!!

 

[Lola68]

I havent had a chance to post since last week but the lack of wreckage has been really bugging me - to the point that I was starting to doubt the plane was in the sea at all. I'm beginning to accept it did go into the ocean but in which case I believe it went in intact - which is why there is no obvious floating debris. I think the plane could be lying intact at the bottom of the ocean - although I appreciate that might be impossible, ie would have broken up under pressure the further it sank - can anyone confirm?

Having read more about the Air France (and Lockerbie) crash, I am more accepting of the fact it could have been non-malicious, but if it was intentional - and it's still a criminal investigation according to authorities - I think the pilots/crew may have known or /suspected there was a very powerful bomb on board and deliberately flew it where it could cause the least damage. Sorry if this has (undoubtedly) already been posted - I just needed to get it off my chest!

 

[cluciano63]

I guess plane debris could be caught up in all of the other garbage down there. Maybe some has surfaced here and there and moved on out of range or submerged again/broken apart since? Maybe the larger portions simply have not come up.

 

[Gerontion]

"I think the pilots/crew may have known or /suspected there was a very powerful bomb on board and deliberately flew it where it could cause the least damage."

Snipped by me (?)

This is a new one on me. If that is the case, wouldn't that "bomb" still be live? Not sure if an underwater bomb squad is among the searchers assets. They're gonna need a lot bigger tool than a TPL ..........