Found Deceased Malaysia - Nora Quoirin, 15, from UK, special needs, missing on vacation, Seremban, 4 Aug 2019 #4

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So truly heartrending. I cannot imagine what that poor angel endured. It sounds like her family did everything possible to give her a life with extraordinary experiences and took whatever opportunities they could to help her be the best and happiest person she could be. Their loss and pain is surely immense but I find solace in how completely she was loved and how she was such an integral part of all their family experiences. They were completely hands on. I was just appreciating that about them because there are many stories out there where special needs kids have been neglected or perhaps seen as an inconvenience. Nora was surely blessed with a great family and they in turn were blessed with her sweet and gentle spirit.

One thing I wonder about is her state of mind right before they all went to bed. I’m thinking about her mom telling her a bedtime story and perhaps discussing their plans ahead including the waterfall. I wonder if she even perhaps told Nora an enchanting tale that made the waterfall seem extra magical. I could picture myself as a mom in that scenario, talking about the amazing sights and sounds of the waterfall, maybe wondering about waterfall faeries or dragonflies fluttering in the sunlight in every color of the rainbow, just whimsical stuff like that to capture her imagination.

I don’t think she went out just to see what was out there in general, as she was much too fearful. But I believe she may have been excited or transfixed about the waterfall and even wondered if the “rustling sounds” could’ve happened prior to her venturing out, and triggered thoughts about the waterfall, you know the sounds of a waterfall, and that led her to climb out the open window.

There is some beauty to be found amongst the sorrow in that she somehow ended up at the waterfall in the end. I wonder how big and loud the waterfall is? If she was near it but overlooked, perhaps she didn’t hear the searchers or her mother’s voice due to being incapacitated and lacking the strength or understanding to try to alert anyone by making sounds or perhaps her sounds were drowned out by the rushing sound. Or, she was simply fearful in a sort of primitive way. I’m not sure how cognizant she was or self aware...or if she understood the context of being lost. I’m sure it was stressful not having her mother there and confusing but I’m not sure she understood the concept of being lost or separated from her family. But undoubtedly her mind and body were both in a state of extreme stress that contributed to her death. It’s beyond awful to think of the suffering she endured.

I hope the family will accept the answers so they may have real closure. I am praying for them with my full heart, and Nora’s memory will forever outlast her untimely and tragic death. She is free from suffering now so I’m going to try not to dwell on all she endured, my mind has been going in endless circles.
 
I can understand Nora’s parents exaggerating her vulnerability to police because it took them 3 hours to arrive.
It effected our opinions on here about what we thought happened to poor Nora when they were so consistent that she was kidnapped.
We can only put trust into the Autopsy results but knowone can 100% say why she ended up outside.
Lots of theories that could fit she heard animals noises or she was lured or she woke up because of the truck or she was sacrificed because of religious reasons or she had fight with her family and ran away the list is endless.All we know is the poor girl died and thankfully wasn’t murdered.
I can’t imagine how her family must feel especially her mum she seemed very close to her from what I’ve read about their life.
They chose that resort with that jungle for Nora so clearly thought she could handle it fine they shouldn’t feel guilt for trying to help their disabled child experience something amazing.
I hope that in the future being a mother of 2 vulnerable daughters that other parents think is the trip suitable is the accommodation suitable and encase of emergency for any reason how quickly could you access the help so something like this never happens again.
Resorts need to learn from this please put child locks on their accommodations when your aware that there is children as guests.
RIP pretty Nora x
 
Simply Southern said:
My thoughts, as well. Every case is unique and individual. The physicians were well trained, allowed the French to observe the PM. They are much transparent, releasing lots of information.

We are you going to get a general overview of her cause of death. That's all we, as the public need.

Jmho
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Absolutely! It’s not really up to us to question the doctors given that this was observed by her family’s lawyer, and officials from other countries. They accept it, so we should as well. I hope the family can stop thinking a crime happened and begin to accept that this was just a tragic accident.
 
Crime Keleesi said:
From the article at this link: About Holoprosencephaly , it says "In most cases of holoprosencephaly, the malformations are so severe that babies die before birth."

I hope that her family is eventually able to look back upon her entire life as truly miraculous and enjoy all the precious memories they were able to make during her lifetime. I know there is nothing that will ease the pain, but hopefully someday they can find a bit of comfort in knowing that they were truly blessed with their time with her.

(Note: I feel weird about this post because I don't want it to sound as if I am saying "well, they should be happy they got her at all" because that's not what I mean. It's just hard to word it right. As are most things anyone tries to say after such a tremendous loss.)
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I get what you are trying to say. Every opportunity she had for therapy, special schooling, and every experience she had with her family, it’s all a testament to how much they loved her.
 
Father Marcus Holden, the priest at St Bede's Roman Catholic church in Clapham Park, told Premier how the church had responded to the confirmation of her death: "People are obviously devastated and heartbroken because of this news but they are people of faith. Last night, they came together to find hope and strength in the Christian faith, which I think is very important at this time."

He explained how Nora grew up in the church, saying: "she has spent her life in this parish, she was baptised here, she made her communion here,"

"The Quoirin family are very much a part of the church and Nora attended mass every week.

"They are a really good family and that makes it even harder, because everybody knows the family, they are part of us and it makes the situation much more difficult.

Her Irish-French parents, Meabh and Sebastian, previously said they did not believe she would have wandered off alone and feared she had been abducted.

Fr. Marcus explained how devastating the news had affected the church: "It's hard and unimaginable to think of this kind of death at any time, but with the circumstances and it being so far away and the loss of her for so many days and now the details we hear of how she died, it makes it even harder."

He explained how Nora was a "very shy, but a lovely girl and a devout girl. She particularly loved her family. She had special needs, but often with a child like that, it brings out a lot of love from the community and I definitely recognise that and, especially in the last few days, we've seen an outpouring of love, which is a real positive thing to take away from all this."
Priest at Nora Quoirin's church tells Premier the teenager will be a missed part of the church family - Premier
 
Simply Southern said:
Yes, she did have scratches. Toxicology reports may take time, I feel we will hear more in the days to come.


Here is the original press conference and a translation by our very on @Shadyren. We had the translation within second last night. That was wonderful.



The notes he made,are very helpful
.

Moo
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Yes I know she had scratches and bruising but thought that was her body no mention of feet?
Her feet condition would explain a lot.
 
Rhenish said:
To think that for many days of the searching she was "out there" and alive has to be so heartbreaking for her parents. This child seemed so loved and honored by her family. I really hope she heard her Mother's recording that searchers were playing and that it gave Nora comfort. What an extremely sad situation for this family that clearly loved and adored this special needs child. I cannot even fathom the grief they must be experiencing. Such an honestly heartbreaking case.
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A lovely post Rhenish especially the part were you said that you hoped Nora heard her mother.
 
katyy said:
As we now know that Nora was probably wandering for a few days/a week, it seems that not enough credit was given to that white woman bathing in the river sighting at the start. MOO
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Well, we know the media didn't report much about it. We really don't know what was done behind the scenes regarding that sighting.
 
katyy said:
As we now know that Nora was probably wandering for a few days/a week, it seems that not enough credit was given to that white woman bathing in the river sighting at the start. MOO
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Do we know what is the distance between where Nora was found and where the sighting of the woman in the river?

Also, I was looking for clarification of the window. I'm not sure if this is a quote from the family but it appears by this statement they discovered the window open. I just can't comprehend how she would go through all that trouble to climb out of the window, unless she didn't know how to unlock the door or there were special locks on the door.

Nora’s family said they discovered her missing from her bedroom at the Dusun eco-resort in southern Negeri Sembilan state on Sunday morning with the window left open.
Sighting of ‘white woman’ in jungle river probed by Nora cops in Malaysia
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family of the London teenager whose body was found in a Malaysian jungle on Tuesday have urged the police to continue to investigate the case as a possible crime after foul play was ruled out by an autopsy.

Nora, who had serious learning disabilities, disappeared from her family’s holiday bungalow on August 4 and is believed to have died two to three days before her body was found.

However, Charles Morel, the French lawyer of her Franco-Irish parents, who believe she may have been abducted, told The Daily Telegraph that her family still “aren’t ruling anything out” as they “remain convinced that it is improbable that Nora left the bungalow voluntarily.”

The authorities must explore the possibility of a “criminal act,” he added. “We want to make sure not only that this [criminal] hypothesis is not ruled out, but that [the investigators] work on it… taking into account the importance of tourism in Malaysia and its image, the authorities may tend to prioritise the thesis that she left [voluntarily] over the criminal hypothesis,” said Mr Morel.

Compounding the family’s doubts is the difficult terrain that Nora would have had to cross to the spot where she was found, in a sleeping position in a stream in a ravine about 1.5 miles from the resort in Seremban, 39 miles from the capital, Kuala Lumpur.

The location where she was found means she would have had to follow “an extremely steep path through the jungle,” said Mr Morel.
Nora Quoirin death: family urges police to continue to investigate after foul play ruled out
 
I think the jungle sounds would have drowned it out.

Devastating to think she could have been saved. I can't imagine what her parents are going through.

I don't think there is more to this than has been said. We won't ever know why she decided to leave the house that night, or how close she was to being saved. Honestly one of the most tragic situations l have ever read about. Poor dear little soul.
 
I've read the first couple of threads but didn't manage to catch up with the third one or this one but I just wanted to say a few words.

First off, I'm very sorry to hear about poor Nora. May you rest in peace. And may your parents take comfort knowing that you passed away in the area that you most wanted to visit and that you were found and they are able to take you home.

I was curious if she could swim? It was mentioned on another thread about how she must have liked the water so I couldn't help but wonder if she might have seen something or someone that ignited her curiosity in to leaving the house via the window and perhaps if she couldn't walk very well, she might have stumbled / crawled quite far away to where the sniffer dogs last smelt her. Maybe it was her seen washing in the river. Maybe she could have swam a little down the river if she could swim and maybe where the river turned in to a stream, she might have walked through it or crawled through it, hoping she would find the waterfall.

Now I wanted to share something which I feel is quite important and especially if it might help someone as vulnerable as Nora in a natural environment in the future. I have first hand experience of how forests/woodlands can transform the life of someone who is unable to leave the house on their own but comes alive and acts like a totally different person when they're in a forest/woodland. They appear to have loads of energy and a totally out of character way of viewing things. They love nature and wildlife so deeply and feel energised by it and full of curiosity and just have that confidence to walk around and enjoy their surroundings. It's like the forest environment with all its nature and wildlife feeds their soul and before they know it, they have wandered off quite far. I can't help but wonder if this was perhaps how Nora felt?
 
Nora Quoirin's family 'still think she was abducted from Malaysian resort...

Charles Morell, lawyer for parents Sebastien and Meabh, said the pair have also not ruled out pursuing a criminal probe and are waiting for the results of DNA and toxicology tests before making a decision.

Speaking to Irish broadcaster RTE, he said today the Quoirins 'cannot understand how Nora could leave by herself' and urged 'caution' over post-mortem results which showed Nora died of intestinal trauma likely caused by starvation and stress.

Meanwhile, Sylvain Quoirin, Nora's paternal grandfather, told the Irish Times that 'dark areas need to be cleared up for the family to be able to grieve in peace.'

Nora Quoirin's family 'still think she was abducted from Malaysian resort' | Daily Mail Online
 
imstilla.grandma said:
family of the London teenager whose body was found in a Malaysian jungle on Tuesday have urged the police to continue to investigate the case as a possible crime after foul play was ruled out by an autopsy.

Nora, who had serious learning disabilities, disappeared from her family’s holiday bungalow on August 4 and is believed to have died two to three days before her body was found.

However, Charles Morel, the French lawyer of her Franco-Irish parents, who believe she may have been abducted, told The Daily Telegraph that her family still “aren’t ruling anything out” as they “remain convinced that it is improbable that Nora left the bungalow voluntarily.”

The authorities must explore the possibility of a “criminal act,” he added. “We want to make sure not only that this [criminal] hypothesis is not ruled out, but that [the investigators] work on it… taking into account the importance of tourism in Malaysia and its image, the authorities may tend to prioritise the thesis that she left [voluntarily] over the criminal hypothesis,” said Mr Morel.

Compounding the family’s doubts is the difficult terrain that Nora would have had to cross to the spot where she was found, in a sleeping position in a stream in a ravine about 1.5 miles from the resort in Seremban, 39 miles from the capital, Kuala Lumpur.

The location where she was found means she would have had to follow “an extremely steep path through the jungle,” said Mr Morel.
Nora Quoirin death: family urges police to continue to investigate after foul play ruled out
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Sadly l think it will be easier for mum and dad to think some nefarious force was at work than to accept they innocently took her to her place of death.
 
JennyDee said:
Hope they get to bring her body back home because to go through what they have and to have to leave her behind for more tests would be horrific and just add to their pain.
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The authorities have said the family can take Nora home.....DNA results are awaited but they have been told they do not have to stay in Malaysia for this.
 
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