Max Shacknai EMS Report

[katydid23]

Of course we all need to use the bathroom. But look at how people are painting the scenario of how he accidentally fell. He was planking, or he was riding his scooter on the 2nd floor banister, or he was climbing on the banister to reach a ball stuck in the chandelier. Wouldn't an observant parent be aware of behavior like that, bathroom or not?

I did always take quick peeks to see what the kids were doing when they were little and I needed to be away in another room. I assure you that if one of my kids was riding their scooter on the upstairs balcony, I would have known. It doesn't take much to figure out an obvious DANGER like that.

This is not an instantaneous accident, where he tripped on his laces going down the stairs. This is something much more involved, and if the adult had been paying attention, she would have seen him attempting to retrieve the ball or planking or whatever it is he was doing. I am sorry, but when a child dies in a horrific way under your care, then you are partially responsible.

 

[Betty P]

ITA. Everybody has to use a restroom now and then.

Max was 6 years old, not an infant or toddler. He was old enough to know right from wrong and which kinds of play were safe and which were "off limits" or forbidden. He didn't have a learning disability or any kind of mental or psychological impairment that prevented him from understanding risky behavior. He attended school and played sports, so he understood the need to obey adults who were in charge of him.

Unless Max had serious behavior problems, any adult who was watching him should have been able to go to the bathroom, take a quick shower, etc. without having to worry a great deal about whether he was going to come to harm.

He was also old enough to think he could wait until supervising adults were otherwise occupied to try a forbidden trick.

 

[katydid23]

Max was 6 years old, not an infant or toddler. He was old enough to know right from wrong and which kinds of play were safe and which were "off limits" or forbidden. He didn't have a learning disability or any kind of mental or psychological impairment that prevented him from understanding risky behavior. He attended school and played sports, so he understood the need to obey adults who were in charge of him.

Unless Max had serious behavior problems, any adult who was watching him should have been able to go to the bathroom, take a quick shower, etc. without having to worry a great deal about whether he was going to come to harm.

He was also old enough to think he could wait until supervising adults were otherwise occupied to try a forbidden trick.

He was also old enough to know not to ride his scooter on the upstairs balcony.

Those kinds of risky tricks demand an audience. I highly doubt he put his scooter up on the upstairs bannister and then tried to climb up on it and ride it. As you said, he was a smart kid and understood risky behavior.

 

[screecher]

Max was 6 years old, not an infant or toddler. He was old enough to know right from wrong and which kinds of play were safe and which were "off limits" or forbidden. He didn't have a learning disability or any kind of mental or psychological impairment that prevented him from understanding risky behavior. He attended school and played sports, so he understood the need to obey adults who were in charge of him.

Unless Max had serious behavior problems, any adult who was watching him should have been able to go to the bathroom, take a quick shower, etc. without having to worry a great deal about whether he was going to come to harm.

He was also old enough to think he could wait until supervising adults were otherwise occupied to try a forbidden trick.

BBM

Especially if he had wanted to impress some older siblings. IMO

 

[Betty P]

He was also old enough to know not to ride his scooter on the upstairs balcony.

Those kinds of risky tricks demand an audience. I highly doubt he put his scooter up on the upstairs bannister and then tried to climb up on it and ride it. As you said, he was a smart kid and understood risky behavior.

The paint chips from the banister that were found on his razr scooter indicate he may have tried to do just that.

 

[katydid23]

The paint chips from the banister that were found on his razr scooter indicate he may have tried to do just that.

If so, then RZ was at fault. She was negligent in her care of him if he did that.

But I don't think it happened like that.

 

[justice be served]

Max's parents had joint custody and at the time of his accident Max was in the custody of Jonah. Jonah was responsible for his son no matter how it is looked at when in his care. If fingers need to be pointed for an accident while in Jonah's care then hold him responsible. Not a woman who paid the ultimate sacrifice for being involved with the Shacknai family. <modsnip>. Go after Jonah, after all, he's alive and well. He alone was responsible for his son.

 

[Betty P]

If so, then RZ was at fault. She was negligent in her care of him if he did that.

But I don't think it happened like that.

Going to the bathroom and momentarily leaving a 6 year old boy alone in the home is not negligent. No judge or jury would have thought so. Unfortunately, someone else may have wrongly appointed themselves judge, jury and executioner by taking Rebecca's life.

If true, that person needs to be held accountable for their actions. No jury would forgive or exonerate her murderer.

 

[katydid23]

Max's parents had joint custody and at the time of his accident Max was in the custody of Jonah. Jonah was responsible for his son no matter how it is looked at when in his care. If fingers need to be pointed for an accident while in Jonah's care then hold him responsible. Not a woman who paid the ultimate sacrifice for being involved with the Shacknai family. <modsnip>. Go after Jonah, after all, he's alive and well. He alone was responsible for his son.

Maxie was NOT in Jonah's custody. At the time of his death he was in RZ's care. <modsnip>.

If someone was watching my son and he flew off the balcony to his brutal death, I would absolutely hold them partially responsible.

 

[katydid23]

Going to the bathroom and momentarily leaving a 6 year old boy alone in the home is not negligent. No judge or jury would have thought so. Unfortunately, someone else may have wrongly appointed themselves judge, jury and executioner by taking Rebecca's life.

If true, that person needs to be held accountable for their actions. No jury would forgive or exonerate her murderer.

It was not 'momentarily.' She herself said she was in the downstairs powder room for ten minutes. If he was upstairs riding his scooter off the bannister then it is on her, imo.

But it might not have even happened like that. Maybe she is covering for someone who holds some responsibility for the tragedy. If so, she may have felt despondent enough to end her own life. JMO

 

[screecher]

Max's parents had joint custody and at the time of his accident Max was in the custody of Jonah. Jonah was responsible for his son no matter how it is looked at when in his care. If fingers need to be pointed for an accident while in Jonah's care then hold him responsible. Not a woman who paid the ultimate sacrifice for being involved with the Shacknai family. <modsnip>. Go after Jonah, after all, he's alive and well. He alone was responsible for his son.

BBM

I absolutely believe Jonah Shacknai is the one Dina Romano is going after. The thing is, she's not able to be so vocal in doing so, as she is regarding Rebecca.

<modsnip>. I agree.

 

[K_Z]

I'd just like to say I'm thankful Rebecca was as close by and as vigilant as she was. Because of the quick actions of both Rebecca and her sister, Max had EMS care and transport literally within minutes. If she had been in the garage, or elsewhere on the property outside, or sleeping with earplugs in, or otherwise unavailable, Max could have laid there much longer.

She may not have been perfect-- none of us are, but from every single indication, and every single comment about her care of Max (other than from Dina and a few internet posters), she and Max were as close as any longterm GF and her partner's son could be.

There is no indication that she was in any way negligent in her care of Max that morning, or any other time.

What I see is a concerted attempt by some to make Rebecca into either a careless, irresponsible or negligent caregiver who didn't supervise Max as he engaged in risky play, or a raging murderer who snapped and assaulted Max and pushed him to his death.That is character assassination, no mater how you process it. Rebecca cared for this little boy-- she went out of her way to make sure he had healthy meals, etc.

I just cannot understand the deep seated hatred for Rebecca from anyone except Dina, and perhaps her loyal twin sister.

 

[K_Z]

<modsnip>

For all intents and purposes, Rebecca was a stepmother to Max. A common-law stepmother. Not a nanny, not a babysitter.

Max apparently didn't view her as a babysitter, either.

And, BTW, what a fantastic "problem" to have that the child's soon-to-be stepmother is so interested in the child and connected to his daily activities that she wants to attend his school events? I've read that she regularly picked him up from school, and took him to soccer practice. She didn't have to do any of that. Jonah could have hired help to do that. So I think it speaks very strongly of her interest and committment to Max.

And to tie all this back to the EMS record, she was there, rapidly, and doing whatever she was emotionally and physically able to do. The police report describes her very upset and crying at his side. She cared about, and probably loved this young boy. She was not indifferent to his devastating condition.<modsnip>.

 

[Inparadise]

<modsnip>

for all intents and purposes, rebecca was a stepmother to max. A common-law stepmother. Not a nanny, not a babysitter.

Max apparently didn't view her as a babysitter, either.

And, btw, what a fantastic "problem" to have that the child's soon-to-be stepmother is so interested in the child and connected to his daily activities that she wants to attend his school events? I've read that she regularly picked him up from school, and took him to soccer practice. She didn't have to do any of that. Jonah could have hired help to do that. So i think it speaks very strongly of her interest and committment to max.

And to tie all this back to the ems record, she was there, rapidly, and doing whatever she was emotionally and physically able to do. The police report describes her very upset and crying at his side. She cared about, and probably loved this young boy. She was not indifferent to his devastating condition. <modsnip>.

very well stated!

 

[K_Z]

I also want to put in a plug for the EMS paramedics. They faced a cluster of really challenging issues with this run, and they functioned rapidly, and problem solved efficiently. They faced a more serious situation than the dispatch had lead them to expect, they faced and solved several life saving problems with equipment (intra osseous placement; frustrations with airway management), and STILL gave Max the absolute best chance for survival, with their rapid assessment and adherence to ACLS protocols. Max was essentially dead at the scene-- these individuals fought to regain a pulse and vital signs when that hope was very, very dim. They spent only 14 min at the scene, and continued to resuscitate him enroute to the nearest hospital.

I'm proud of their efforts. I'm also proud of XZ's efforts with the 911 call snippet we heard. What a horrific situation for a 13 yo. I wish Dina and Jonah had been emotionally able to make a public statement together to thank EMS for their efforts. And to thank Rebecca and her sister for their rapid notification of EMS. And to thank Rady docs, nurses, and ancillary personnel for their efforts.

Falls account for more than 1/3 of all fatal accidents in the home. Except for Rebecca's very suspicious death just 24 hours later, and the wealth and notoriety of Jonah Shacknai, I think that Max's death would have just been a very sad statistic. I firmly believe Max's fall was accidental. But I also firmly believe Rebecca's death was not a suicide. There is an unquestionable aspect of revenge/ retribution there that defies any concept of suicide, imo.

 

[justice be served]

When parents have raised wild children and not saying they perhaps didn't try their best - and this child acts out - it is certainly not a sole responsibility for the caregiver of the moment. I would not allow my daughter to babysit for children that were prone to craziness as it was too much responsibility. Parents cannot blame others for their children's actions solely as is being done here.

 

[Zinn]

<modsnip>

For all intents and purposes, Rebecca was a stepmother to Max. A common-law stepmother. Not a nanny, not a babysitter.

Max apparently didn't view her as a babysitter, either.

And, BTW, what a fantastic "problem" to have that the child's soon-to-be stepmother is so interested in the child and connected to his daily activities that she wants to attend his school events? I've read that she regularly picked him up from school, and took him to soccer practice. She didn't have to do any of that. Jonah could have hired help to do that. So I think it speaks very strongly of her interest and committment to Max.

And to tie all this back to the EMS record, she was there, rapidly, and doing whatever she was emotionally and physically able to do. The police report describes her very upset and crying at his side. She cared about, and probably loved this young boy. She was not indifferent to his devastating condition. <modsnip>.

Thinking back to more than a year ago, I believe the "babysitter" comments began after PR articles stated JS and Rebecca planned to marry. One or more posters had already expressed a lot of anger about Rebecca referring to Max as her son, and this escalated to referring to Rebecca as the babysitter. To me, it came across as a way of both dehumanizing Rebecca (by not referring to her by her name) and minimizing her status in the family and in relation to JS and Max.

Just my opinion.

 

[Inparadise]

Thinking back to more than a year ago, I believe the "babysitter" comments began after PR articles stated JS and Rebecca planned to marry. One or more posters had already expressed a lot of anger about Rebecca referring to Max as her son, and this escalated to referring to Rebecca as the babysitter. To me, it came across as a way of both dehumanizing Rebecca (by not referring to her by her name) and minimizing her status in the family and in relation to JS and Max.

Just my opinion.

I really doubt that Jonah had plans to marry Rebecca.......he really wasn't all that keen on marrying Dina, and didn't tell any of his friends that they were married. Friends only found out after Dina started to introduce herself as Mrs. Shacknai about a year after their courthouse wedding. And for their Coronado wedding, Jonah invited not one person.

 

[K_Z]

I agree, Zinn. "Babysitter" also implies a temporary situation, or officially "delegated" work. I sincerely doubt that every time Jonah left the house he asked Rebecca if she was available to "babysit" Max. They were sharing household duties and acting in every way as a committed couple and family.

<modsnip>. She provided the care of a loving stepmother, just without the piece of paper to say they were married.

Heck-- even the EMS report says the call was activated by family members. Presumably, Rebecca didn't identify herself to paramedics as "the babysitter." Paramedics didn't even view Rebecca as a babysitter-- despite the obvious racial difference, they still considered her family.

 

[katydid23]

I have not seen any posts describing her as 'only the babysitter.'

My point is that she was, in fact, in charge of watching Max because she was the only adult in the home at the time. And that fact has nothing to do with her relationship to Jonah, whether married or engaged or not, and nothing to do with her race, or anything else. It is just a matter of FACT that whomever is left ALONE with a child is the person responsible for that child's well being. So if that child begins putting a scooter on the upstairs balcony, it is your responsibility to prevent it.

<modsnip>/