MD - Freddie Gray dies in police custody #1

[SStarr33]

Baltimore

Freddie Gray death: police clash with protesters for second night in Baltimore

Two arrested after scuffles outside the western district police station as tensions simmer over the death in custody of 25-year-old black man

http://www.theguardian.com/us-news/...with-protesters-for-second-night-in-baltimore

 

[SStarr33]

Man who filmed Freddie Gray video speaks out

http://www.baltimoresun.com/news/maryland/baltimore-city/bs-md-gray-video-moore-20150423-story.html

 

[SStarr33]

Baltimore is hit by a second night of protests over death of 'healthy' black man who died in police custody

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...ay-gave-testimony-April-12.html#ixzz3Y8Jo4xpZ
Follow us: @MailOnline on Twitter | DailyMail on Facebook

 

[Elley Mae]

http://www.baltimoresun.com/news/ma...-in-the-freddie-gray-case-20150422-story.html

David Gray, a University of Maryland law professor who teaches criminal law and criminal procedure, said the Supreme Court has ruled that running away from police, by itself, is not justification for an arrest.

bbm

 

[mysteriew]

http://www.baltimoresun.com/news/ma...-in-the-freddie-gray-case-20150422-story.html

David Gray, a University of Maryland law professor who teaches criminal law and criminal procedure, said the Supreme Court has ruled that running away from police, by itself, is not justification for an arrest.

bbm

He wasn't arrested because he ran. The fact that he ran gave them probable cause to stop him and question him. After he was caught they found an illegal weapon (the knife he had was illegal) and that was cause for arrest.

That is a small but important distinction.

Interviewees on CNN have said he was arrested because he ran, that he was arrested because he was black. Truth is had he stood still, they would have had no probable cause to stop him or search him.

When those interviewees exaggerate things like that, they hurt their cause. IMO it makes them unbelievable. If they lie about the cause of arrest, then is the rest of their messages/complaints true? Are things really that bad, or are they exaggrations or fabrications like the story of the arrest?

 

[Willow Knight]

These are my thoughts right now, only personal opinion of what I 'think' was going through LE mind.

* When LE approached Mr Gray, they made eye contact and Mr Gray ran away from LE.
* LE then chased Mr Gray to see if there was a reason he ran.
* When LE and Mr Gray met, LE frisked Mr Gray out of routine for officer's safety.
* LE found what they believed to be an illegal knife, detained Mr Gray for further investigation as to why he ran.

Now something went wrong, I strongly feel Mr Gray was injured prior to entering the transport vehicle due do his screams of pain. It was obvious to me and to one of the persons recording the incident.

At this time, the only reason I can think of LE indifference to the screams of pain is because LE believed Mr Gray to be faking. Mr Gray had prior arrest, possibly Mr Gary had previously 'went limp' or reacted in the same manner?

It is a very sad situation, we demand LE protect us and expect them to investigate. However in this case it certainly appears to me, LE was wrong in not contacting medics much, much sooner. That said, my focus is on the reason LE did not call for medical assistance sooner. Every life matters, LE and citizens.

Maybe a possible solution could be to employ police medics that will access people being detained and they make the decision to seek further treatment. I don't know, but I like the idea of medics on the police force.

Blessings to all involved.

 

[Elley Mae]

He wasn't arrested because he ran. The fact that he ran gave them probable cause to stop him and question him. After he was caught they found an illegal weapon (the knife he had was illegal) and that was cause for arrest.

That is a small but important distinction.

Interviewees on CNN have said he was arrested because he ran, that he was arrested because he was black. Truth is had he stood still, they would have had no probable cause to stop him or search him.

When those interviewees exaggerate things like that, they hurt their cause. IMO it makes them unbelievable. If they lie about the cause of arrest, then is the rest of their messages/complaints true? Are things really that bad, or are they exaggrations or fabrications like the story of the arrest?

Why did they chase him?

 

[leah]

Why did they chase him?

What was Mr. Gray doing when the police became suspicious of him? Was he standing, was he walking, I heard he was with another man, but I don't know if that is true? Was he committing a crime?

 

[Elley Mae]

The lieutenant chased Gray on a bicycle after the 25-year-old made eye contact with him and fled on the morning of 12 April, according to police. A knife was found in one of Gray’s pockets.

http://www.theguardian.com/us-news/...ie-gray-had-pattern-of-violence-court-filings

 

[Elley Mae]

The incident unfolded about 8:30 a.m. April 12, when three Baltimore police officers approached Gray, and he ran away, according to the Baltimore police’s timeline of events, given to the media Monday afternoon. Officers caught him about two blocks from the scene.

Rodriguez, the deputy commissioner, said the officers suspected Gray was “immediately involved or had been recently involved in criminal activity.” He had been convicted on drug charges in the past and was due in court next month on a drug charge from last year, the Associated Press reported.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/news/...ithout-force-or-incident-before-fatal-injury/

The incident unfolded about 8:30 a.m. April 12, when three Baltimore police officers approached Gray, and he ran away, according to the Baltimore police’s timeline of events, given to the media Monday afternoon. Officers caught him about two blocks from the scene.

Rodriguez, the deputy commissioner, said the officers suspected Gray was “immediately involved or had been recently involved in criminal activity.”

.................................................

It seems that because he was known to them when he saw them approach he ran, (for what ever reason) and they gave chase, (why?) and then found he had a knife in his pocket. Lots and lots of men carry knives, but it's not my opinion as to why they confronted him or made eye contact.

bbm, I don't know if this is a reason to chase someone that runs. jmo idk

 

[mysteriew]

Why did they chase him?

When he saw police and ran, he gave the impression of wrong doing or guilty concious. Out of all the people in the area at when police arrived, he ran.

 

[i.b.nora]

"Rodriguez, the deputy commissioner, said the officers suspected Gray was “immediately involved or had been recently involved in criminal activity.”"

Was a police report made on the criminal activity referred to in that statement? It sounds like some incident happened, so where is the report? Was it filed that day?

 

[mysteriew]

The incident unfolded about 8:30 a.m. April 12, when three Baltimore police officers approached Gray, and he ran away, according to the Baltimore police’s timeline of events, given to the media Monday afternoon. Officers caught him about two blocks from the scene.

Rodriguez, the deputy commissioner, said the officers suspected Gray was “immediately involved or had been recently involved in criminal activity.” He had been convicted on drug charges in the past and was due in court next month on a drug charge from last year, the Associated Press reported.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/news/...ithout-force-or-incident-before-fatal-injury/

The incident unfolded about 8:30 a.m. April 12, when three Baltimore police officers approached Gray, and he ran away, according to the Baltimore police’s timeline of events, given to the media Monday afternoon. Officers caught him about two blocks from the scene.

Rodriguez, the deputy commissioner, said the officers suspected Gray was “immediately involved or had been recently involved in criminal activity.”

.................................................

It seems that because he was known to them when he saw them approach he ran, (for what ever reason) and they gave chase, (why?) and then found he had a knife in his pocket. Lots and lots of men carry knives, but it's not my opinion as to why they confronted him or made eye contact.

bbm, I don't know if this is a reason to chase someone that runs. jmo idk

So to paraphrase police arrive and look around. They see a man known to them to be involved in criminal activity make eye contact with them, then he takes off running.

I'm not a cop. But I am a mother. My kid did that it would make me very curious. Even suspicious. Yeah I would probaly try to find out what my kid was doing.

 

[mysteriew]

I don't really question why they chased him or why they wanted to chase him. What I question is what happened after they caught him.

What caused the injuries? Why did they not recognize that he was injured? Why was medical care not obtained earlier?

 

[SStarr33]

Freddie Gray's spinal injury suggests 'forceful trauma,' doctors say

http://www.baltimoresun.com/health/bs-hs-gray-injuries-20150420-story.html

 

[SilkySifaka]

I don't really question why they chased him or why they wanted to chase him. What I question is what happened after they caught him.

What caused the injuries? Why did they not recognize that he was injured? Why was medical care not obtained earlier?

Exactly and it takes considerable force to crush a voicebox. Let alone sever a spinal cord 80% of the way through. I don't care why they chased him, all I know is someone is dead who should have gotten immediate medical attention and didn't, probably from an excessive use of force. Those legs weren't working right before he was slung into the van.

imo

 

[Falcon500]

I predict that this going to turn out to be a case of failing to securely restrain Gray in the back of the transport wagon or Gray removing the seat belt. Somewhere in the 30 minute trip to the station Gray fell off of the seat and broke his neck. It has happened before.

He was not injured during the arrest. Much has been made of his wailing and screaming as he was being led to the wagon. People do that all of the time in the inner city to put on a show for their friends and neighbors.

 

[mysteriew]

Here is another timeline:

http://data.baltimoresun.com/news/freddie-gray/

According to this at 8:59 a call was made for another unit to come and check on Gray. Why? That was after the leg irons were applied.
Another prisoner was put into the van at the same time and it says contact was made with Gray. What was his condition at this time?

Paramedics were called at 9:24. Where were they when paramedics were called? Were they at the station or not? What were they doing in the 25 min. between the last stop and when paramedics were called?

How far away is it anyway between the place of arrest and the station? From time of arrest to the time medics were called was something like 55 min.

 

[SStarr33]

99.1 WNEW ‏@WNEW 18m18 minutes ago

Baltimore officials are urging commuters to leave early as #FreddieGray protests are expected to cause major delays. http://cbsloc.al/1yXwiR1

 

[mysteriew]

I predict that this going to turn out to be a case of failing to securely restrain Gray in the back of the transport wagon or Gray removing the seat belt. Somewhere in the 30 minute trip to the station Gray fell off of the seat and broke his neck. It has happened before.

He was not injured during the arrest. Much has been made of his wailing and screaming as he was being led to the wagon. People do that all of the time in the inner city to put on a show for their friends and neighbors.

That could explain the broken neck. But it would be very hard to cause the fractured larnyx IMO.

And I agree that sometimes during the arrest detainees will sometimes "put on a show" at the time of arrest. So much so that IMO if they don't see blood, officers may tend to ignore complaints of medical issues.

I also understand that with the number of people who were out and about there may have been concern by the officers that some retaliation by bystanders. It was a tense situation.