MD MD - Woodstock, WhtFem 35-60, UP11923, found alive/injured in a field, died Sep'71, Jul'71

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sunnynz said:
When I first read the summary, and before reading the comments, I had the impression from what she was wearing and the brain surgery that she was a victim of a violent sexual assault, and that once found they tried to help her recover from head injuries with brain surgery. i.e. the brain surgery was after her being found, not before. Just how I interpreted it.

Those suggesting Shirley Stevens/Frew https://www.findthemissing.org/en/cases/7394/837, agree that the surgery scar for an ectopic pregnancy and a hysterectomy in that era could have been interpreted as one and the same. Both issues were commonly treated with a laparotomy in the 1960s/early 70s https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hysterectomy#Technique http://www.ectopicpregnancy.co.uk/for-professionals/perspectives/surgery/ Shirley's scar is only mentioned on Charley and not on Namus - it doesn't seem definitive what her scar actually was. But she also had a very prominent scar on her shin and the Jane Doe's file doesn't mention that.

Regarding eye colour - I read about a case the other day (I can't remember which one) where a body was recovered and the eye colour had actually changed in post-mortem so it's always possible I guess.

Here's a side by side of Shirley and Jane Doe - Kat913 do you think you might submit this?
View attachment 119442
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Also when you put the graphic picture together...it helps as well....as sad as that is.
 
SurrealisticSlumbers said:
I know, it is very frustrating that there is such a lack of information... Re: Cause of death, I have no idea, guys. I hunted the web for info that could point to why this lady was found, basically naked, lying in a field. Remember, she was alive for nearly two months... Just boggles the mind how the hospital personnel or investigating officers couldn't get to the bottom of who she was. She must have been in a coma, or else was just unresponsive for whatever reason. I mean, one would assume they'd have questioned her, and unless some terrible event occurred, i.e. amnesia, catatonic state, she would have been able to respond to their questions and communicate. As it is, we have no idea if she was even communicative. We have literally no idea why she was found, alive, lying in that field. What health condition led to her death? Why did she need brain surgery? The hospital has to have the records stored somewhere, or maybe they were destroyed?

This could be someone's mother. She was found in an area that is considered pretty affluent, a place where one might find something like this a rather unusual occurrence. It was surely newsworthy at the time, but this case gets very little attention nowadays.
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I wonder if she didn't speak English, and no one could find a translator who spoke her language?
 
kat913 said:
I actually think it's worth submitting...there's always a detail that may be "off" or seem "wrong" but these many years later (she was only submitted in recent years) anything could be possible and Shirley does have a family who have been wondering for a long time.

I am not too versed on how to submit....does it go thru NamUs or Doe?

Anyone want to help with this long shot? At this stage anything is worth something....it has been way too long.

Thanks!!
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I think you may as well do it - email the contacts listed on the 'contacts' section of the Namus profile for each person (in one combined email). Bullet point out all the things that are a match - height, other physical stuff, etc. Plus any other reasons supporting your match (like the 'M' state thing). Go ahead and include that side by side pic too if you like.
Make sure to include the case reference numbers on the Namus profiles to make it easy for the case workers to look at.

In my experience, so long as you have put some consideration into the match and it has some valid reasons behind it, the Namus people are always very courteous and appreciative of the suggestions.

Keep us posted! :)
 
sunnynz said:
When I first read the summary, and before reading the comments, I had the impression from what she was wearing and the brain surgery that she was a victim of a violent sexual assault, and that once found they tried to help her recover from head injuries with brain surgery. i.e. the brain surgery was after her being found, not before. Just how I interpreted it.
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RSBM

That's how I interpret it. Did I miss something that indicates differently?
 
SurrealisticSlumbers said:
I mean, do you guys think that she was taken there, like, dumped or dropped off by someone else, or that she got there by herself? Would she have been trying to escape from a group home or nursing home type of situation? Do you think she was homeless or on drugs (could explain malnourishment)?
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Based on what little we know, I doubt she got there by herself.
1) She needed brain surgery, so it's likely she had a serious head injury. (The odds the surgery NOT being injury-related, like for a brain-tumor, are pretty slim, I would think.) MOO
2) While it's hard to tell just from her hospital photo, I suspect that she was frail and/or infirm, and that she would have had a very difficult time walking about on her own. MOO

By the way, I believe the hospital photo is indeed post-mortem. On NamUs, that photo's caption is "The decedent has short hair due to brain surgery prior to death." (BBM) The wording is still ambiguous IMO, but that's the way I interpret it. MOO
 
NadirCake said:
Based on what little we know, I doubt she got there by herself.
1) She needed brain surgery, so it's likely she had a serious head injury. (The odds the surgery NOT being injury-related, like for a brain-tumor, are pretty slim, I would think.) MOO
2) While it's hard to tell just from her hospital photo, I suspect that she was frail and/or infirm, and that she would have had a very difficult time walking about on her own. MOO

By the way, I believe the hospital photo is indeed post-mortem. On NamUs, that photo's caption is "The decedent has short hair due to brain surgery prior to death." (BBM) The wording is still ambiguous IMO, but that's the way I interpret it. MOO
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The circumstances surrounding how she got in that field are beginning to look pretty grim... Clothing may have given away her identity, so maybe these were removed, not for any nefarious reasons, but simply so that no one would know who she really was (and report the caretakers for elder abuse?). The reason I doubt a sexual angle, is that no signs of trauma were listed - hospital would have noticed if there were signs of rape or other sexual trauma. In other cases I have seen, it's listed if there were signs of a sexual assault. In this case, I feel like the clothes were removed so that it would make it that much harder to identify her.

I think she became inconvenient to somebody. Her caretaker(s) might have just wanted her off their hands. I believe they never intended for her to still be alive in that field. I agree with others who have theorized that she had a brain injury. Maybe she was hit on the head and left for dead by her family. Blunt force trauma wouldn't have been immediately obvious with her hair still grown out. I'm sure they connected the dots at the hospital, especially if she wasn't responsive or was comatose. Unfortunately, if elderly people so much as fall down and hit their head, it could trigger a stroke (exactly what happened to my grandmother) and I'm guessing brain surgery would do little to reverse that, and the patient would eventually die. My grandmother "died" of a stroke. Well, she was in a comatose state and "brain dead," so my family had to make the heart wrenching decision to take her off of life support. She died on Independence Day, 2011, surrounded by loved ones, just shy of her 90th birthday. This poor lady didn't have that luxury. I suspect that her family were neglectful, judging by her weight, and just wanted to be free of the responsibility of caring for her, so they hit her with a blow to the head, dumped her in the field and drove off.

A very similar thing happened with an older woman (previously listed as an unidentified decedent for years) named Carolyn Roehlig. Her son claimed she "died at home" and that he dumped her body in the river. Charges against him are currently pending.
 
sunnynz said:
I think you may as well do it - email the contacts listed on the 'contacts' section of the Namus profile for each person (in one combined email). Bullet point out all the things that are a match - height, other physical stuff, etc. Plus any other reasons supporting your match (like the 'M' state thing). Go ahead and include that side by side pic too if you like.
Make sure to include the case reference numbers on the Namus profiles to make it easy for the case workers to look at.

In my experience, so long as you have put some consideration into the match and it has some valid reasons behind it, the Namus people are always very courteous and appreciative of the suggestions.

Keep us posted! :)
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Thanks Sunnynz...I did as you suggested. I submitted..the worse they can say is NO, right?

So will see what happens.:waiting:
 
We've seen cases where people's clothing is lost on the way to the hospital; the EMTs just rip stuff away if they need to. So she might have been wearing other clothing when found.

She could have had a stroke or aneurysm and been wandering in a daze before she collapsed. I guess that can also happen after a head injury.
 
sunnynz said:
Regarding eye colour - I read about a case the other day (I can't remember which one) where a body was recovered and the eye colour had actually changed in post-mortem so it's always possible I guess.
Click to expand...
<rsbm>

My son had dark brown eyes but the autopsy showed blue eyes. When I expressed concern to the coroner, he gave me an explanation as to why it can happen post-mortem, but due time and trauma, I have never been able to recall the specifics. Not sure how often it occurs.

Jumping off this post, with regard to dementia ... when we see the general rural area she was found in, it is hard to imagine someone suffering from dementia wouldn't have been seen and noticed, walking around clad only in a slip and undies.

For reference, here's Streetview of Old Ferguson Rd and Woodstock Rd:

https://www.google.ca/maps/place/MD...dab45a3dfb362f9!8m2!3d39.317012!4d-76.8835257

I would imagine it was even more rural/remote in 1971.

IMO, the victim having had brain surgery seems to point to there had been head trauma rather than some degenerative processes.
 
e8f27c9c0d1c7b92a0b986232d11474b.jpg


http://www.nampn.org/cases/schwabe_margaret.html

She would have been a long way from home but you never know if someone kidnapped her and held her hostage, for example a trucker kept her hostage in the cab of his truck for a long haul trip?


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
 
sillybilly said:
<rsbm>

My son had dark brown eyes but the autopsy showed blue eyes. When I expressed concern to the coroner, he gave me an explanation as to why it can happen post-mortem, but due time and trauma, I have never been able to recall the specifics. Not sure how often it occurs.

Jumping off this post, with regard to dementia ... when we see the general rural area she was found in, it is hard to imagine someone suffering from dementia wouldn't have been seen and noticed, walking around clad only in a slip and undies.

For reference, here's Streetview of Old Ferguson Rd and Woodstock Rd:

https://www.google.ca/maps/place/MD...dab45a3dfb362f9!8m2!3d39.317012!4d-76.8835257

I would imagine it was even more rural/remote in 1971.

IMO, the victim having had brain surgery seems to point to there had been head trauma rather than some degenerative processes.
Click to expand...

So sorry to hear that, Silly Billy....I was thinking (and it could be wrong) but I really thought with a head injury your pupils dialate (that's why they look in with a light to see if they constrict) and therefore her pupils would be very dialated and eye color could be uncertain from time they found her. My daughter was born without any irisis and her "eye color " was dark brown (due to enlarged pupils) with barely a rim of blue around (so I knew she would have had dark hair and blue eyes...so pretty!)

Just a thought....as usual!!
 
There are no similarities in looks but there are a lot of other similarities. I'm questioning what toll 3 years, possible needed medical attention, and alcohol may have had. Had the medical issue caused her to to be unable to communicate somehow and be taken in by someone/someplace for the 3 years? The height is only 1 inch off, the weight is off but certainly not impossible if she had been on her own, ill, or not being taken care of properly. Had the Hydrocephali been the reason for her brain surgery? Hair is Lt/Brown vs blonde. Eyes match. hysterectomy scar vs ovary/tube removal. Both have had a broken nose. Tried to compare nose and ears but unable to find a clear pic of either for Madeline (tilting head, scarf etc). Madeline did have extensive dental work and the UID appears to be edentulous from the autopsy photo - though not stated. I'm not sure what the result would be if they hadn't been taken care of. And the distance. I have no idea how she would end up in Maryland

http://www.doenetwork.org/cases/428dfca.html
https://www.findthemissing.org/cases/7003/
 
I found Stephania Andrews as a possiable match


She went missing on May 15th 1970.. She was 62 years old at the time of her disappearance,,,, The UID"s estamited age was 35 to 60 years old

Stephania's hair color is grey.... The UID's hair color is brown BUT beginning to grey

Stephania and the UID both have the same eye color

Stephania and the UID are both the same height

Stephania weighs a little more then the UID... But that could be a simple mistake


It says Stephania and her husband were leaving a cocktail party and they both been drinking achocial at the time of her disapprence



http://www.doenetwork.org/cases/2096dfil.html

https://www.findthemissing.org/en/cases/20728/0/
 
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