Mexico Mexico - David Hartley, 30, Lake Falcon, 30 Sept 2010 #1

[laytonian]

FALCON LAKE – The Texas Department of Public Safety released video footage of David and Tiffany Hartley. It was taken just hours before the murder on Falcon Lake.

It shows DPS troopers pulling over the Hartley’s at 11:30 a.m. in Rio Grande City last Thursday. That’s about three hours before Tiffany says Mexican pirates killed her husband on Falcon Lake. Troopers pulled them over for an expired registration sticker on their trailer. The two jet skis can be seen in the back. David Hartley’s voice can be heard on the video.

A DPS spokesman says David Hartley would have received a ticket but they saw two trucks pass by with marijuana in the back. They let the Hartley’s go after about 10 minutes and moved on.


http://www.krgv.com/news/local/story/DPS-Releases-Hartley-Footage/EgRZrhfMlESq8QM2bZJ4rw.cspx

Video Clip

http://www.krgv.com/mediacenter/local.aspx?videoid=169506@krgv.web.entriq.net

Thanks.

Pulling someone over for an expired sticker (or broken tail light) is what LE does, when they suspect drugs ... or erratic driving. The fact that they held them for ten minutes (plenty of time to issue a ticket) shows that something else went on.

Then, late in the same day, they decide to go out on the lake in jetskis?

 

[laytonian]

All the panelists on JVM believe her too.
Seems LE believes her.
There is a witness that saw her being chased by a boat.

We see there are 2 jetskis on the trailer. When they were stopped, they told the officer they were on their way to the lake.
So, what could she have done with the other jetski and his body if she killed him?

The only way I can see anything other than what she is saying, is if they both planned his disappearance. And he rode the jetski to another location. I don't think that happened, but that's the only other scenario I can see. ETA: and if this were the case, how is the witness (that has been checked out and has NO connection to then) explained?

I think the mexican pirates did exactly what she said they did.
And I think she is a victim here. I can't imagine.

All the witness saw, was her coming back to shore. The "witness" didn't see the reported crime (which would have taken place....what, 3 miles across the water or so?)

What would the "pirates" do with his jetski and body, if they killed him?

Since they (supposedly) killed him with a witness seeing the whole thing, why bother hiding him and the jet ski?

The scenario that this is a purposeful disappearance (for insurance purposes) makes the most sense.

 

[belimom]

...(snipped)...Why are people working in Kuwait, Saudi, Afganistan?????...(snipped)...

$$$$$$$$. Lots of it.

 

[crystalgenie]

respectfully snipped

Is this new information? The part about the gunmen firing "a few more" times on her way back?

I can't get past the fact that when she tries to retrieve her husband, they let her go only to chase her again and fire "a few more" shots. :waitasec:

Here is a picture of the half submerged church, in Guerrero Viejo, they went to explore:

That was my point... They don't shoot her in the head when the gun is supposedly in her face??? I don't believe her for a moment. Something was going on more than going out to see a submerged church...

 

[Tuffy]

Do we know where they put in on the lake? Or where the abandoned church is located on the lake ?

TIA

The church is in the submerged town of Guerro Viejo.

 

[WellDone]

Yep, LOL but also a "job".... not everyone has the convenience of working near their home & not everyone wants to relocate if they don't have to.....

BBM:

$$$$$$$$. Lots of it.

 

[Tuffy]

So there was a 3 hour window.

I also forgot earlier that there was a couple that said they heard gunshots at the same time as this happened. I don't remember where I saw that.

Was it here? Maybe on tv. I don't know.

I remember hearing about the witness hearing gunshots too. Haven't heard about them since. I'll look around.

ETA - Maybe my memory is failing. In an earlier news story it says:

Only a handful of fishermen remain along the Salado river, which pours into Falcon Lake. None told investigators they heard anything while out on the quiet waters on Thursday.

http://www.brownsvilleherald.com/articles/falcon-117639-heights-police.html

 

[easttexas]

My opinion about this is...on jet skis, David has NO control to protect his wife. They knowingly go into a high crime area to take look at something. I just cannot fathom what compelled them to do so. I just told my husband I was going to go for a walk in our neighborhood and I was going to take my cell phone. He said why would you endanger yourself like that??? And we live in a good neighborhood...he just doesn't like me walking by myself after dark no matter what the circumstances. And my husband isn't everyone's husband. I just think that there had to be some thing more than LOOKING at some ruins in that area that took them there. Such an innocent outing in such a known dangerous area, just doesn't ring true for me.

 

[easttexas]

Yep, LOL but also a "job".... not everyone has the convenience of working near their home & not everyone wants to relocate if they don't have to.....

BBM:

I am not following you here....you asked why do people work in Kuwait, Afghanistan, Iraq...I took to mean as dangerous places, people putting themselves in dangerous places and someone said for big $$$. I don't get your answer...and I am not at all being rude or meaning to be. People do put themselves at high risk for those jobs...I have friends to prove it. 3 right now are in Afghanistan working. Had 1 in Venzuelo (sp?) but he is here now.

 

[WellDone]

I'm sorry, I almost edited to be more specific. I should of.

I believe the initial topic (of sorts) was why would people go to a place known to be dangerous..... & I was stating that people are going there, even with the warnings & robberies, etc. & will continue to.... why? I haven't a clue, you wouldn't see me there (been overseas when it was not a good time for US citizens & base lock downs, woudln't do it again - jmo)... just as I mentioned the bass tournaments they have there & the fisherman have been "harrassed", but while the tourneys are there, the fishermen will keep coming to them...... yes, people all over the world work under dangerous conditions.... in dangerous places.... some jobs can't be done down the road or near your chosen home, i.e. deployed military, off shore fishing, mill rights, oil workers, overseas (lots of jobs-security, truck drivers, construction, etc. etc.) & yes in the dangerous places the money is better, but depending on your chosen profession sometimes you don't have a choice, but to go to the dangerous places &/or your job is just plain dangerous to begin with.... also, why do tourist go do dangerous places.... that was brought up.... for various reasons, but there are numerous warnings not to travel to certain places & yet annually tourist travel there regardless, be it religious reasons, volunteer, etc.,

Does that make more sense to you now? The post got broken up so you can't read it as a whole..... why did they go to this dangerous lake, supposedly to see this historical church..... how many people do just the same thing annually.... not just in that lake, but all over the world..... it's not just jobs & workers in dangerous places, tourists, missionaries, etc. too.

It just is what it is...... anymore you're not safe in your own home, but everyone has to live their lives..... you can't hide & be afraid of everything... that's simply not living. People have to be more cautious for their own safety, but there's no guarantee in safety even at that.

Sadly, that IS the world in which we live in today............

Make sense????


BBM:

I am not following you here....you asked why do people work in Kuwait, Afghanistan, Iraq...I took to mean as dangerous places, people putting themselves in dangerous places and someone said for big $$$. I don't get your answer...and I am not at all being rude or meaning to be. People do put themselves at high risk for those jobs...I have friends to prove it. 3 right now are in Afghanistan working. Had 1 in Venzuelo (sp?) but he is here now.

ETA:

Original post snipped #266

BBM:


Quote:
Originally Posted by alwaysonmymind
Thanks Kaylynn. My thoughts are the same.

I believe her.

I do too.... I know for a fact I could not lift my husband out of the water - unresponsive..... & I am 8" taller than TH. I just don't have the upper body strength. If you want to get technical I couldn't pull him out of the water if he was responsive.... you need that upper body strength! I'd flip right over into the water with him!

Considering previously these pirates, bandits, drug lords, whatever..... attempted to stop US boaters in a boat with "Game Wardin" taped to the side of their boat.... luckily these USA-ers noticed the misspelling & sped off. Just one example.... bass fishermen accosted while fishing a tourney.... etc. etc...

Why do these people go to such a dangerous place????

If you know bass fisherman they are gonna go where the tourneys are!

Why do people still travel to south-east Asia with all the conflicts going on steadily???? There are regular government warnings... recently warnings were announced for Europe. Europe!!!

My husband works in So. America.... it's dangerous, but that's where he works & he goes back & forth every month. Why are people working in Kuwait, Saudi, Afganistan?????

Why do people travel to Iraq, Iran, Israel...etc...... ?????

Is it really such a surprize to imagine that drug lords/bandits/pirates would steal a jet ski??? I'd be more surprized if they did find the jet ski floating there.......

Just my opinion....
__________________
"Don't Mistake Kindness For Weakness" ~~ "The world is a dangerous place, not only because of those who do evil, but because of those who look on and do nothing" ~ Albert Einstein
Just my opionion ~ for what it's worth

 

[AutomaticAuttie]

Thanks.

Pulling someone over for an expired sticker (or broken tail light) is what LE does, when they suspect drugs ... or erratic driving. The fact that they held them for ten minutes (plenty of time to issue a ticket) shows that something else went on.

Then, late in the same day, they decide to go out on the lake in jetskis?

Laytonian, what is your point? :waitasec:

 

[IzzyBlanche]

Excuse me if I'm out of line here, but I feel that an intepreter is needed.

Taking the risk of a dangerous job in Kuwait, Afghanistan, etc. is not comparable to taking the risk of going to see ruins in pirate-infested waters as a leisure trip.

No one was paying them to go see the ruins.

Going back to mostly lurking now. :truce:

 

[easttexas]

I know people who fish in that lake. So I understand what you are saying. And they are bass tourney guys!! LOL..apparently it is where the bass are. I wonder if they are under the premise that as long as they stay on our side or close enough to our side they will be okay?? IDK....I will ask that though. This is going to be hard to explain....I kinda understand the fisherman trying to win a bass tourney (again that's $$$) on this lake in US territory. More like a false sense security and hey...maybe a concealed weapon for protection. But to look/take pictures on the Mexican side ?????? Where is the reward in such a risk? A picture? Someone posted that earlier...that is all that I am getting at...I don't understand the risk they took for a peek at something.

 

[Kimberlyd125]

All the witness saw, was her coming back to shore. The "witness" didn't see the reported crime (which would have taken place....what, 3 miles across the water or so?)

What would the "pirates" do with his jetski and body, if they killed him?

Since they (supposedly) killed him with a witness seeing the whole thing, why bother hiding him and the jet ski?

The scenario that this is a purposeful disappearance (for insurance purposes) makes the most sense.

No, the witness said a boat was chaseing her didn't he? With 4 or 5 men in it??????

As far as the jetski, the same arguement can be made about her as you make about the pirates. IMO it would be a lot harder for 1 tiny lady to hide and body and jetski than 4-5 men with a boat. They could have put the body in the boat and 1 could have jumped on the jetski.
She could not drive 2 jetskis at one time.

IDK what happened. But, I beleive her.

JMO

 

[WellDone]

From the links in the beginning of this case I understood it that the drug lords/bandits/pirates/ whatever you want to call these bad guys had in fact victimized others while on the US side..... plus as you say a false sense of security indeed even with the bouys for an international border that it was said it is easily missed in places or if you are not paying careful attention...

I understand what you are saying/asking... & my thought process are similar to the abundance of people going to Jerusalem or any of the many, many historical religous places..... or the millions who travel annually to see the Pope.... they are not being paid...... & not just for religious historical places, etc..... just plain historical places, some in not so safe places are travelled annually by tourists everywhere.

Oh & my husband would fish there for no $$$ cuz he just loves to fish, anywhere & everywhere... although tourneys are his passion, but he fishes tons just to fish for no $$$.

Personally, I'm not into historical things so I understand you not getting why the danger for a pic... but I know some people live & breath everything religious, historical or touristy they can.... just not my thing.

My oldest brother retired early & travels all over the world on missionary trips & just travelling.... he pays, he doesn't get paid... & anything religious, historical or touristy... oh yeah.... you bet they are going!!! At first I thought, are you crazy? But he enjoys it..... go figure...I like to shop! You will never catch me living for months in some little village in a dangerous country...nope.

BBM:

I know people who fish in that lake. So I understand what you are saying. And they are bass tourney guys!! LOL..apparently it is where the bass are. I wonder if they are under the premise that as long as they stay on our side or close enough to our side they will be okay?? IDK....I will ask that though. This is going to be hard to explain....I kinda understand the fisherman trying to win a bass tourney (again that's $$$) on this lake in US territory. More like a false sense security and hey...maybe a concealed weapon for protection. But to look/take pictures on the Mexican side ?????? Where is the reward in such a risk? A picture? Someone posted that earlier...that is all that I am getting at...I don't understand the risk they took for a peek at something.

 

[Tuffy]

No, the witness said a boat was chaseing her didn't he? With 4 or 5 men in it??????

As far as the jetski, the same arguement can be made about her as you make about the pirates. IMO it would be a lot harder for 1 tiny lady to hide and body and jetski than 4-5 men with a boat. They could have put the body in the boat and 1 could have jumped on the jetski.
She could not drive 2 jetskis at one time.

IDK what happened. But, I beleive her.

JMO

Just wondering...how hard would it be to purposely sink the jet ski?

 

[alwaysonmymind]

Thanks.

Pulling someone over for an expired sticker (or broken tail light) is what LE does, when they suspect drugs ... or erratic driving. The fact that they held them for ten minutes (plenty of time to issue a ticket) shows that something else went on.

Then, late in the same day, they decide to go out on the lake in jetskis?

And sometimes it's because they have expired tags, inspection and defective lights.

They had to run the registration for the vehicle, the trailer through the Dept. of Motor Vehicles to determine who the owner is. They run the tag numbers on the vehicle and the trailer through NCIC to see if it's reported stolen. They run the registration for the Jet Skis through the Texas Parks and Wildlife Department. And run both David and Tiffany through the NCIC to check for warrants. I believe that would take a while.

jmo

 

[CathyinTexas]

Don't know if I am the only one on Websleuths who believes Tiffany Hartley's story. But I do. It is sad that people are vilifying her. I personally think she was divinely protected. In my mind there is no other explanation. The video of the sheriff pulling her and her husband over, both jet skis on the back and David being heard saying they were going to the lake settles it for me. Also, there was blood on her vest.

 

[easttexas]

But they lived in Mexico for a time span....what was so special about this particular place that they had to see for themselves? This is the question that needs to be answered....

 

[CathyinTexas]

I'm curious as to why Tiffany thinks these men were pirates, as opposed to just men on a boat who were angry over something, drug cartel men, etc. What made her specifically identify them as pirates?

That has been explained in the media. Pirates are criminals on water. So any persons who accost someone on the water are called pirates by the authorities.