Mexico Mexico - David Hartley, 30, Lake Falcon, 30 Sept 2010 #3

[IzzyBlanche]

One Jbean's link she found the whole thing a "hassle."

And what's wrong with that? To be honest, I simply do not possess the endurance she has displayed in going on TV nearly daily since the crime to espouse her cause, putting on a brave smiling face yet undoubtedly being so torn up inside with the agony of having lost the love of her life in such a brutal way, before her eyes no less. I can't think of a better word to describe having to endure that media attention than "hassle," can you?

If it were me, I would tell the media to shove off and let me grieve in private. Yet, she courageously soldiers on.

Tiffany is much stronger than I would be in her circumstances.

 

[hollyblue]

And what's wrong with that? To be honest, I simply do not possess the endurance she has displayed in going on TV nearly daily since the crime to espouse her cause, putting on a brave smiling face yet undoubtedly being so torn up inside with the agony of having lost the love of her life in such a brutal way, before her eyes no less. I can't think of a better word to describe having to endure that media attention than "hassle," can you?

If it were me, I would tell the media to shove off and let me grieve in private. Yet, she courageously soldiers on.

Tiffany is much stronger than I would be in her circumstances.

This is her choice, just as going to Old Guerrero was. It's not like she couldn't have said no then as in now. I'm sure David would have listened to her, as she was instrumental in turning his life around...per his sis. Just laying the bad aspects of it on everyone else...in both scenarios. The bad pirates murdered my husband and now the bad media is a hassle. Although she's quick to advertise and keep us all up to date on her "appearances", which sounds more like a author touting their latest "story" for book revenues. Opportunity knocks while being fed and lead about by others for their own means. I guess in a way...it just business as normal.

Here is a tidbit to feast upon and hope Tiffany has a "sec" to review. I remember reading of this connection and predicament back in the eighties....from none other than Rolling Stone Magazine....and have watch it's growth from the sidelines. Maybe she could come up with some REALLY good questions to ask Mr. President, Mrs. Secretary of State and Homeland Security and the affect will surely trickle down to the local level. Oh, and don't forget to tell Drug Czar Gil that it's all the drug addicts fault while she's at it and he needs to get his tail in gear.

http://www.globalresearch.ca/index.php?context=va&aid=18877

Only one thing I disagree with in this article..I don't know the exact percentage...maybe less than one percent of the opium or opium enriched products that Afghanistan exported to the US or UK prior to 1980- but it wasn't 0..

JMO

 

[Kimberlyd125]

http://www.greeleytribune.com/article/20101108/NEWS/101109744/1001&parentprofile=1001997

A full life cut short: David Hartley's friends, family remember an adventurous spirit

David Hartley's sister, Nikki, right, and his mother, Pam, cry during his memorial service Sunday at Timberline Church in Fort Collins.


Friends and family, video presentations and photographs portrayed Hartley as a 30-year-old man who believed that life should be lived.


When he was a child, growing up on his grandparents' farm near Loveland, he chased after his cousin, Melanie Hood, with a BB gun, slapped bulls in their pens and ran away, and explored every inch of the farm. When he was a student, he “borrowed” pumpkins from porches on Halloween night, even those with candles still lit, showed calves and maybe drank a little too much at times. When he was an adult, he gobbled more s'mores than anyone, even the kids, at barbecues, hunted buffalo and pronghorn, and fished on ice.


He won his wife, Tiffany Young-Hartley, who has settled in La Salle, after pursuing her relentlessly with love notes and flowers on her car after they met as teenagers. Despite him pulling stunts like roaring up their driveway on a purple Harley and asking to go the bathroom, only to have a cop pull up behind him once he'd disappeared into the house, she agreed to marry him. His proposal? Epic, of course. He flew her in a small plane to Vail, bought her a fancy dinner and took a ride in a horse-drawn carriage before popping the question on bended knee. One of their wedding photos was on that same purple Harley.

The two would later have adventures of their own, including missionary trips to Mexico and Africa, where the children from a Kenyan village, perhaps sensing that Hartley was a kid just like them, flocked all over him.

Whenever he spoke about his life, he always included Tiffany in it, as if he didn't consider a life without her. He was devoted to God, many said.


“He represented what was best about being a Christian and a person,” Johnson said, “and he was taken by those who represent the worst.”





Rest in Peace David

 

[Kimberlyd125]

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2010/11/08/earlyshow/main7033722.shtml

Some snips from this article that I found interesting:

Hartley's family criticized the Mexican government in the days after the shooting, claiming they weren't doing enough to find his killers, or his body, points out CBS News Correspondent Don Teague.

But in an exclusive interview, Mexican president Felipe Calderon told CBS News Travel Editor Peter Greenberg his country acted quickly.

"(Hartley's wife), of course, is claiming that you didn't react quickly enough," Greenberg observed.

"I respect the expression of the lady," Calderon replied. "I understand her situations and emotions. … But, since the very beginning, when the federal authorities realized what exactly was happening; the federal agencies act immediately."
________________________

Texas state Rep. Dan Flynn's letter, which was read by Timberline Church Pastor Chris Johnson during Sunday's service, said, "The loss of your husband will not be in vain. It will be remembered when we are fighting to end violence on the border."

________________________

A report from Stratfor says the Hartleys' truck holding the Jet Skis had Tamaulipas, Mexico, license plates, which may have led pirates or drug gangsters to think they were from a rival gang.

Tamaulipas state is the center of a violent rivalry between the Gulf Cartel and Los Zetas, a brutal drug gang made up of former Mexican special forces soldiers. The search for Hartley's body had been hampered by threats of an ambush from drug gangs, presumably the Zetas.

______________________________

"Thank you for taming the man he was and turning him into the type of man that he was today," his sister, Nikki Hartley, said to Tiffany Hartley.

________________________________

But most spoke about Hartley's Christian faith and his love for his wife. "It was always 'Tiffany and I,"' recalled friend Todd Studer. "It was David's contentment that he loved this woman."

Johnson, the pastor, recalled that Hartley's proposal to his wife included flying her to Vail, taking her to dinner and then going on a carriage ride before proposing on bended knee.



____________________________

My comment:

David sounds like he was a wonderful man. May he rest in peace. My prayers are that this family will someday be able to have peace in their hearts and are allowed to just remember and mourn David.

 

[Kimberlyd125]

There are a lot of articles from yesterday regarding the memorial service.

 

[hollyblue]

Elections gone and passed. So is the case. ????

 

[IzzyBlanche]

Elections gone and passed. So is the case. ????

But Tiffany and Sigi are still taking their show on the road. So to speak I mean.

Other speakers include Rusty Fleming, the producer of the documentary Drug Wars, about drug-related violence in border towns; Captain Jaime Kafati, a Denver sheriff who will be giving a talk called "A Global View to Transnational Gangs;" and Tiffany Hartley, the wife of the man who was killed last month by Mexican pirates while Jet Skiing. The couple were from Colorado but had recently moved to Texas. The Texas sheriff who investigated the case, Sigi Gonzalez, will also speak.

Source: http://blogs.westword.com/latestwor...ss_border_security_gangs_drug_trafficking.php

 

[Kimberlyd125]

<modsnip> I see it as a widow trying to make a difference.

 

[IzzyBlanche]

Just for a fun, let's exercise our imaginations a little here.

Just pretend for a moment that, oh let's say for example, THn told the lead investigator in Kyron's disappearance that she saw Kyron being dragged away from school into a station wagon that then sped away.

No one else saw this happen; there were no drag marks or tire marks or any other evidence whatsoever to back up this claim. In fact, no one else has even reported seeing Kyron at school that day.

Three or four days after the disappearance, when the lead investigator is asked if THn, the last person believed to have seen Kyron alive, has taken a polygraph, he replies with, "Why should I ask her to take a polygraph? I believe her." And he then proceeds, apparently, to do no further investigation.

Then four weeks later this investigator and THn start appearing together at events focusing on the problem of kidnapped children, which coincidentally is an area in which this investigator claims to be an expert who constantly complains that the government is not doing enough about the problem.

I defy anyone on here to honestly state that they would not for a moment think the situation was at best a serious conflict of interest for this investigator, and at worst, something, well, much worse.

And I totally agree, Tiffany is definitely trying to make a difference. Her latest cause: impeach Obama.

http://www.bringdavidhome.com/

Strange cause for a grieving widow to take up, IMO.

So according to her Obama is "allowing other countries to control what goes on in the US"?

What does that have to do with bringing David home? For that matter, what does it have to do with David's death at all? Hasn't Tiffany claimed over and over again that she and David were on the Mexico side?

IMO, something stinks here. Really, really bad.

 

[hollyblue]

Just for a fun, let's exercise our imaginations a little here.

Just pretend for a moment that, oh let's say for example, THn told the lead investigator in Kyron's disappearance that she saw Kyron being dragged away from school into a station wagon that then sped away.

No one else saw this happen; there were no drag marks or tire marks or any other evidence whatsoever to back up this claim. In fact, no one else has even reported seeing Kyron at school that day.

Three or four days after the disappearance, when the lead investigator is asked if THn, the last person believed to have seen Kyron alive, has taken a polygraph, he replies with, "Why should I ask her to take a polygraph? I believe her." And he then proceeds, apparently, to do no further investigation.

Then four weeks later this investigator and THn start appearing together at events focusing on the problem of kidnapped children, which coincidentally is an area in which this investigator claims to be an expert who constantly complains that the government is not doing enough about the problem.

I defy anyone on here to honestly state that they would not for a moment think the situation was at best a serious conflict of interest for this investigator, and at worst, something, well, much worse.

And I totally agree, Tiffany is definitely trying to make a difference. Her latest cause: impeach Obama.

http://www.bringdavidhome.com/

Strange cause for a grieving widow to take up, IMO.

So according to her Obama is "allowing other countries to control what goes on in the US"?

What does that have to do with bringing David home? For that matter, what does it have to do with David's death at all? Hasn't Tiffany claimed over and over again that she and David were on the Mexico side?

IMO, something stinks here. Really, really bad.

Great analogy....and so true. It just makes me want to :sick: really. She doesn't have a clue about politics, nor the whole story on the problem with the border and Mexico. From her story, she didn't do much research for just the small area of Falcon Lake, and say a months history, let alone what she's attempting now. It's hilarious, yet painful to watch. She's being fed like a little bird, because she doesn't have the knowledge...nor the fortitude...to do her homework. She's schmoozing it for all she can get out of it. Who is she fooling? Really. Most who will listen to her are aware of the problem and will jump on any band wagon trying to solve the problem. But how many heads will she turn and just who is going to pay attention after about 30 seconds of her "trying"...and I'm being nice. Since she has all the answers....any willing to nominate? ROFLMAO!!

<modsnip>

 

[scapa]

Just for a fun, let's exercise our imaginations a little here.

Just pretend for a moment that, oh let's say for example, THn told the lead investigator in Kyron's disappearance that she saw Kyron being dragged away from school into a station wagon that then sped away.

No one else saw this happen; there were no drag marks or tire marks or any other evidence whatsoever to back up this claim. In fact, no one else has even reported seeing Kyron at school that day.

Three or four days after the disappearance, when the lead investigator is asked if THn, the last person believed to have seen Kyron alive, has taken a polygraph, he replies with, "Why should I ask her to take a polygraph? I believe her." And he then proceeds, apparently, to do no further investigation.

Then four weeks later this investigator and THn start appearing together at events focusing on the problem of kidnapped children, which coincidentally is an area in which this investigator claims to be an expert who constantly complains that the government is not doing enough about the problem.

I defy anyone on here to honestly state that they would not for a moment think the situation was at best a serious conflict of interest for this investigator, and at worst, something, well, much worse.

And I totally agree, Tiffany is definitely trying to make a difference. Her latest cause: impeach Obama.

http://www.bringdavidhome.com/

Strange cause for a grieving widow to take up, IMO.

So according to her Obama is "allowing other countries to control what goes on in the US"?

What does that have to do with bringing David home? For that matter, what does it have to do with David's death at all? Hasn't Tiffany claimed over and over again that she and David were on the Mexico side?

IMO, something stinks here. Really, really bad.

Great post, much to think about here. The possibility that this case has now been yoked to a particular political agenda is disturbing, given the little we know about the alleged occurrence. Like Willie Horton in reverse. And that was plenty distasteful (and costly). If TH's story is true, how is this the fault of the current admin? Or Obama personally? If I venture knowingly into a rough part of town to visit a historical landmark and get my wallet stolen I may well be upset, indignant, and perhaps even rail against the sociopolitical conditions that allow poverty which promotes street crime, and so on. But I knew it might happen. I feel partly responsible. I chose to go, knowing that it might be dangerous. Why would I disclaim any and all responsibility for having taken the risk? Why would I blame the Prime Minister?

Partly, I think, because it's a distraction. It diverts attention from the risk I took and the complicity I may have. Maybe I even believe it.

IMHO, This is among the oddest cases to be found on this site. It's quietly odd, but no less worrying for that. It may turn out to be the perfect crime, for someone. A case study. Blech.

s

 

[IzzyBlanche]

Websleuths's own Susan Murphy Milano thinks Tiffany's story is a crock.

http://murphymilanojournal.blogspot.com/

 

[kemo]

OK, Susan Murphy Milano doesn't buy Tiffany's story and apparently FOX NEWS is cutting her loose. I hope that means it now all right for us to express our own "skepticism". I don't want to be banished for violating the "victim friendly" rules of this board.

An interesting posting is from Semus O'Riley who apparently is a certified "statement analyst While I can't vouch for his bona fids, he seems to know what he is doing. He breaks down Tiffany's descriptions of what happened and explains exactly why I and apparently many others felt it just didn't smell right.

A particularly interesting line Tiffany used was: " just went right back to him to make sure and check and see, check on him to make sure he was OK."

When I initially heard this, I knew something was very wrong. I could understand her going back to HELP him, but why "check on him"? It seemed a very "inappropriate" word to use.

Actually, when you and your spouse are being chased and shot at and your spouse "is down", I would think the instinctive thing to do is to keep going, but I've never been in that situation; how many of us have? Once she saw that he was dead, the obvious course of action would be to save herself and get out. But she claims she attempted to get him on her Jet-Ski EVEN THOUGH SHE KNEW HE WAS DEAD. This makes no sense.

I believe the whole story is a lie, but the bit about going back to "check on him" was a "lie within a lie" that served a purpose that she considered very important: to establish that David was, without doubt, dead. It also was an attempt to address what she would know was going to be a big problem: where's the body. She was demonstrating that she "did her best" to recover it.

 

[NoeticSoul]

I thought this may be of some interest to watch this evening or set your DVRs..

Murder on the Lake

National Geographic Channel

Wednesday, November 24th
8 pm CT- 9 pm ET

(snipped)

"... a ripped-from-the-headlines television event that confronts one of the most serious threats to American security today. Our cameras return to the scene of David Hartleys murder on the otherwise placid looking Falcon Lake, and retrace his final hours through the eyes of his grieving widow Tiffany. Expert interviews explore how Davids suspected murderers, the Zeta cartel, operate along the Texas/Mexico border, funneling drugs and illegal immigrants northward -- ready to kill anyone who strays into their path. Davids murder has brought into focus the growing fear that the violence may be heading north."

http://channel.nationalgeographic.com/series/border-wars/6112/Overview

 

[Salem]

Hi All - you may discuss the articles and comments. Again, please stay respectful. TH is still considered a victim and that will NOT change until LE comes out and says that she is a POI for some reason.

I understand it will be a challenge but I'm sure it can be done and that the posters here can do it. The trick will be to keep the discussion within the context of the articles that are quoted & linked to.

Salem

 

[Chiquita71]

Hello WS

Thank you for the link to this information, this post is not a response to any post on this thread, but a response to a news article published regarding this case. Doing my own research into this case, I appreciate news links. In my following of the facts in this case, it has been my experience to find more questions.

Read more: http://www.nydailynews.com/news/wor...d_dead_in_trunk_of_torched.html#ixzz17AiflYCv

Kidnapping is fairly common in the region. Just a few weeks ago, roughly two dozen Mexican tourists were kidnapped by a gang in Acapulco.

Whether this information is accurate is moot imo, the whole structure of the sentence leaves me with the duty of confirming the facts for myself. "Is fairly common", does not leave me with a sense of escalation or urgency and makes the situation sound, well, common. "Just a few weeks ago", facts please! Vauge time lines imo, have no place in fact reporting and that goes for "roughly" when describing the number of victims. "Were kidnapped by a gang..." What gang, "a gang"? This is going on in Acapulco? One wonders if the travel agencies are aware of this information and if so, do they relay this to their clients? At this time I am not questioning the validity of this information, just the quality. The information these two sentences convey, if true, is startling in its own right but I will have to do independent study to confirm the facts. I believe in looking to many sources for information no matter how well the article or research has been done, but this type of reporting lends to zero credibility, for me.

Catherine-Elizabeth said the escalation in crime had made her father nervous. "They had more kidnappings, shootings that were occurring," she said.

But Dion's family does not think his death was a random kidnapping.

"My brother was executed," Johanne Dion told CBC.

His nephew Shanny Bolduc says the family believes Dion's relationship with high-level Mexican government officials may have cost him his life.

He had reportedly spoken of ties going as high as Mexican president Felipe Calderon, according to TheStar.com, and in 2009 talked publicly of an off-the-record deal to use prisoners in his company, openly going around Mexican labour laws.

"We believe it has a lot more to do with his high contacts in the government and the power that he had as a foreigner," Bolduc said in an email to The Canadian Press. "He was about to have some serious breakthroughs for business in Mexico. He probably stepped on the wrong feet or was a problem to someone."

In an echo of Tiffany Hartley's case, who has said Mexican pirates killed her husband last month while jet skiing on a Texas border lake, Dion's family says Mexican police have done little to solve his disappearance.

The connection between this story and Tiffany's is only that members of the family say the Mexican Police have done little to solve their cases. For those reading news articles from the United States, they would find the same claims made about LE by (some)family members and (some)media.

Read more: http://www.nydailynews.com/news/wor...d_dead_in_trunk_of_torched.html#ixzz17Ahq6naJ

...js...

 

[Chiquita71]

Hello WS

If I am incorrect, and there has been some kind of official(LE, Governmental)confirmation please correct me.

This thread was created when that was the headline, no disparage meant but maybe it could be changed to David Hartley reported shot/missing in Mexico? Something like that...

If it is left the same, I am happy to abide.
I :blowkiss: WS

 

[hollyblue]

Hello WS

If I am incorrect, and there has been some kind of official(LE, Governmental)confirmation please correct me.

This thread was created when that was the headline, no disparage meant but maybe it could be changed to David Hartley reported shot/missing in Mexico? Something like that...

If it is left the same, I am happy to abide.
I :blowkiss: WS

I don't think it matters anymore....we have heard nothing about any investigation...US or MX side....so things are staying status quo....which means everybody is to take TH's story as gospel...and so be it. Fini

 

[oceanblueeyes]

Mexican army reports 'narcograve' in Nueva Ciudad Guerrero

Authorities made a gruesome discovery over the weekend across the border from Falcon Dam.

Mexico&#8217;s Ministry of National Defense (SEDENA) reported that a military patrol found a &#8220;narcograve&#8221; in a ranch outside Nueva Ciudad Guerrero on Saturday.

Military officials reported that that soldiers found one body in an advanced state of decomposition in the Los Angelinos Ranch just outside town.

Soldiers also seized 440 pounds of marijuana, 13 assault rifles, ammunition, a fragmentation grenade and a bulletproof car.

The body could not be immediately identified but the case remains under investigation.

The ranchland surrounding Nueva Ciudad Guerrero is considered dangerous drug trafficking terrority.

Colorado native David Hartley went missing in the area when he and his wife were allegedly attacked by armed men while skiing on the Mexican side of Falcon Lake.
http://www.valleycentral.com/news/story.aspx?id=550543

 

[NoeticSoul]

Sheriff: Two New Suspects In Falcon Lake Murder

--snipped--

"More than two months after the alleged murder of an American jet skier on Falcon Lake, Zapata County Sheriff Sigifredo Gonzalez said he was looking for two men who opened fire on David and Tiffany Hartley on September 30.

Gonzalez said he believed the suspects were in Mexico. "But they sometimes, I understand, come over to the U.S.," he said.

The sheriff said the suspects were from Guerrero, Mexico, and are known smugglers suspected of drug and human trafficking. He said they were working with the Zetas on Falcon Lake and fired shots at the Hartleys. David died and Tiffany fled on her jet ski back to the U.S. side of the lake.

"And they had also supposedly gotten the green light to kill her also, but she was able to escape," Gonzalez said.

Gonzalez told KRGV Channel 5 News he got his information from confidential informants who told him David's body and jet ski were destroyed and will never be found. When asked about the lab results on Tiffany's blood-stained life vest, Gonzalez said, "It was human blood. It did belong to David Hartley."

Gonzalez also said at least four sources had confirmed Tiffany Hartley's account of what happened. Sheriff Gonzalez said this now makes four suspects in the Falcon Lake murder case.

Mexican investigators questioned Tiffany Hartley twice at the FBI field office in McAllen. Hartley then left the Rio Grande Valley and returned to her parents' home in Colorado. She remains an outspoken advocate of the need for more border security and has appeared on numerous national programs, including "ABC's World News," "Good Morning America" and "Dr. Phil."

The publicity surrounding the Falcon Lake murder has taken a toll on the Zapata tourism business. During what is typically the busy fishing season, some local hotels and motels reported a 70 percent decline in business. In an effort to bring nervous anglers back to Falcon Lake, a group of grandmothers has organized an all-female fishing tournament."


http://www.krgv.com/news/local/stor...alcon-Lake-Murder/llhRgV2DcEGME16sKuGTlw.cspx